L
Libero
Guest
Alas, I used to be like that, but engaging in threads where my posts would merely be torn apart turned me into an argumentative old fart.
I should really try to find my fromer self.
- Status
I should really try to find my fromer self.
R
rlg94086
Guest
Your point is noted. However, I don’t see anything uncharitable in what I said. You have no idea from my previous post, what my feelings or interactions are toward those who are homosexual in my own family and at work. Rather, I think you are reading something into it.
Quite simply, I was commenting on the sinfulness of homosexuality. Some argue that heterosexuals are guilty of pornography, adultery, etc. and that’s no different. They are correct, but it begs the question. We are all sinners and have to deal with our sin, but that wasn’t what my last post was about.
We should not, as a society, normalize sinful relationships, so I don’t believe in normalizing or legalizing gay relationships anymore than I favor normalizing adultery. If you can explain what is callous about that, feel free.
So, yes, I think you are being preachy. Jesus’ messages of “repent and sin no more” and “take up your cross and follow Me” are apparently lost in our touchy feely world of feel-good religion.
TheRam:
Quite simply, I was commenting on the sinfulness of homosexuality. Some argue that heterosexuals are guilty of pornography, adultery, etc. and that’s no different. They are correct, but it begs the question. We are all sinners and have to deal with our sin, but that wasn’t what my last post was about.
We should not, as a society, normalize sinful relationships, so I don’t believe in normalizing or legalizing gay relationships anymore than I favor normalizing adultery. If you can explain what is callous about that, feel free.
So, yes, I think you are being preachy. Jesus’ messages of “repent and sin no more” and “take up your cross and follow Me” are apparently lost in our touchy feely world of feel-good religion.
J
Jennifer123
Guest
Coincidence??Now, going back to the article and the intent of this thread, the point was trying to be made that the gay ‘agenda’ is hidden by the sexual nature.
In the Eastern Catholic Church, today’s Epistle reading seems to make a great point about what God intended our bodies to be…Temple of the Holy Spirit and to be given back to God by our actions for Him.
1 Corinthians 6:12-20
After reading this Epistle reading, someone may say, "They it mentions prostitutes and not homosexuals. Well, God, back in Genesis, states that Man (mankind) is supposed to be fruitful and multiple. Homosexuals by themselves Can Not be fruitful and multiple.
Yet, these are the two verses that strike me the most:
17 But he who is united to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.
18 Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body.
(focus particlularly on verse 18)
Verse 18 is describing the sexual immorality and to sins against ‘one’s body’, when the body is supposed to be the Temple of the Holy Spirit, then sexual sins (regardless of hetero or homosexual, is a grave matter.
This Epistle for me couldn’t have come at a fetter time!
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
Serendipity!
T
TheRam
Guest
Woah…touchy…ok, it tells me you can not handle this, so i will say what i meant…your use of calous was yours…not mine.
I will not get in to a word war, as i said i was not debating your point, i was debating your lac of feeling in your post…
Ok, i am not going to argue your points, but rather comment on your delivery. I do believe a lot of your truths are delivered with a bit to much disregard…a kinda flippancy towards people or the act…This is in you believing you are right, and are very confident in the addressing of them. But it lacs delivery and compassion.
i was looking at it from what point of view…you simply list things, with a deadness in your delivery, it is factual, and cold…it has no hint that you ever deliver these to humans, but more to be lists of points.
God is not like that, and i do believe you loose people when you do this. I was asking for a more charitable delivery, cause your lac of feeling anything does not reach out to those who have poured their hearts out, and shared their pain.
Are you more interested in being RIGHT, or delivering compasionately the word of God to lead others home to him…or are you just fine in the condemnation in your voice…is that what Jesus would do…
That is my point…you do not have to comment, it is simply my oppinion you are confidently factual, not compasionate. Love the sinner, hate the sin
T
TheRam
Guest
God bless your hearing this, it warms my heart to see someone know that their truth can be delivered with compassion. I aplaud you in realizing it’s effect on others…Alas, I used to be like that, but engaging in threads where my posts would merely be torn apart turned me into an argumentative old fart.
I should really try to find my fromer self.
and yes, it “feels good” to Love the Lord and his children…every one!
T
TheRam
Guest
It really can be…
Edwin, you have many a struggle ahead of you, and knowing the difference by comming into the truth in Gods writings, and seeing it as a love letter from him…well, it makes a whole heck of a difference in how we see his Laws!
You are able to see the truth, love him enough to see he wants the best for you, and try your hardest to comply. I do believe that your Environment growing up holds great presence over who and what you are. Knowing this, and realizing that there is great possibility that substituting so many “feel good” things into our lives can snowball so devistateingly.
I know that the struggle of any overture in getting a grip on a particular sin, is harder the closer you get to god…the battle then begins, when we are aware of the struggle to lead your soul. I pray often, and hard for you, and the knowlege that you best live alone right now, and in this it has caused great lonliness. But because you are willing to endure this for it being the right path, Graces with befall you…it is prommised.
I do not believe that there is an agenda from any gay group or person. Each one is more open with their own sexuality, as they live the lives they feel they are meant to lead. This is caused by many things, including the availability of pornography etc. If i wanted to make money, i could do just that, because there will always be sinners and therefor, there will always be clientel to this industry.
To believe that there is an agenda, would mean to me, that they are well aware of the sin, and choose to make a demand on making sure that they keep the people, and recruit as many as possible. No one ever goes or does these things because it is someone elses agenda…they personally use your outlet to get what they want…it is in gratifying the physical needs, that they feel apeased. Your believing that they need the outlets is wrong…however it does, like any illegal drug, or other sin…make it more readily available, casting less time to think and feel the shame…if they know better. If they do not…nothing we say will make sense to them.
That is the starting point to compassion, in the getting the word out, tell them about him, by telling them to start first with a relationship…not in do not sin. Understand the man, what he has done for us, and why…then attack your desires to follow him acordingly.
R
rlg94086
Guest
Give me a break. Now, you read some high level of touchiness in my response. You read way too much into written words.You post your way, I’ll post mine. I believe my compassion for those struggling with sin is just fine thank you very much. The fact that I don’t say “God bless you in your struggles” in every post, doesn’t change that.
Are you more interested in JUDGING OTHER’S compassion than discussing things in a rational manner? Apparently, so. That is my point…you don’t have to comment.
Love the sinner, hate the sin. On this we agree. If you ever see me posting something contrary, do let me know. Lack of flowery writing does not equal lack of compassion.
T
TheRam
Guest
T
TheRam
Guest
that post was read, but left rather quickly…where’d it go!
T
TheRam
Guest
as Rosanna Danna says, “Never-mind!”
L
Libero
Guest
I love it when we are all nice to each other.
T
TheRam
Guest
Ah, finding this post this morning has touched my heart.I love it when we are all nice to each other.
I will tell you something, last night a poster and i got into it. Posts up, then down, where’d this one go, and now my retort looks dumb…etc…in the end, we both erased everything, and it felt right.
I then got the sweetest reply in a personal post…very touching, and it goes to show you…pray long and hard before you open your mouth.
I was amazed, and learned a lot.
Graces are near…
J
Jennifer123
Guest
Ram-
Thanks for trying to bring some compassion into this thread. I appreciate your posts. I agree that the closer you get to God the harder the struggles are sometimes, but the reward and graces are so much bigger IMHO.
I do take exception though to the impression I’m getting though that because I and others are against active homosexuality that we aren’t acting in compassion. For me, the Truth is compassion. Ok - maybe we should all recognize that we aren’t speaking face to face and watch how our message may come across with no context, I agree there.
But the truth is I’m afraid there is an agenda for the homosexual movement - it’s acceptance. Not tolerance, mind you, acceptance at all costs. This agenda for acceptance is driven by the dark, secret knowledge that what they are engaging in *is * sinful. They know this in the heart because that’s where God’s law is written whether we acknowledge it or not. It is a behavior that is fatal, to the body and soul. That is why we as Christians, primarily as Catholics, need to minister this truth.
T
TheRam
Guest
I do see your point Jennifer, and it is the truth…we do have an obligation to minister the truth. My point is, in doing this, are we doing it our way, or Gods way. In this we also can become…and i am not pointing fingers…prideful about the point being right. We can say all day long that it is right…and it is, but is it done as Jesus would have done? Do we, in this revel of the truth not alter his intentions with the self apointed need to speak truth only.
I look at it from a perspective of looking through Gods eyes first. If he was here, and we try and mimick his reaction to some one sinning (and all humans do it, not just one particular type ). First he feels the pain, the distancing of ourselves from him, and know the lengths he’d go to retrieve us. In no way does he simply blurt something out, and expect that that will expell the sin.
We would have to know or love him enough to value his word…only then is this law something we may choose to come away from mean anything to the sinner. In being right, and feeling compassion…well that is a HUGE big step in the delivery. I also think we do not spend enough time with someone, know what their beliefs are, or ever give them a chance to ask us how it is that we appear to be at such peace…there has to be a wanting, a pull a struggle of how to fill this saddness or lonliness.
My angle…and maybe it is my gift, and others have other strengths…and we work well together…but maybe it is what God wants of me to see this, and share this. What is important is that i believe this from what i feel he says to my heart.
I want the person first…as the Lord does. No i do not want toconvert anyone, or am i preying on them. I simply feel that without knowing them first…just like the Lord, my word means nothing to them. I also CHANCE misinterpreting a very vulnerable soul, and could send it off hurt, as it was done to me so many times. I am trying to never do to others that was so harshly thrown in my face, and making me to never ever want to be a Catholic or christian, because the people were simply not acting like God would have, and they are mean. I went further away because of their actions that felt right to them.
In my heart, i knew Jesus would simply not have done that. So i lost out on growing in the Catholic church, and bonded quite nicely with the Lord, all by my self. When i felt safe enough, i ventured out…here at CAF…but even here it was harsh…the water cooler is cooler for friendships…i do not venture out here much. I get overwhelmed with the hurt i hear, and the hard comments…truthful, all be it!
We sinners in search look up to you…you have this power, and you need to realize it can keep us here, or send us packing.
You decide, i already have!
ok, woah…my pulse is racing…in an excited fahion though. I still believe that the front we see is a self imposed front, not a group front. When we see a front as a group, i simply feel that they are feeding off each other, and using numbers as cushions of protection. I simply feel it is a self indulged act to step up and do these things. The larger the croud, the better the attention of acceptance…they are simply pep rallies in my eyes. I do not research them, watch them, or are a part of their group in any support fashion. Reason being, it is wrong for me, and it is wrong for them. To identify it, is simply feeding their need. I do not go around telling people pornography and masterbation are supposed to be legal displays of effection, nor do i want to rally the lifestyle i was in, am the survivor of, lived in sin, had children out of wedlock…and the list goes on…nothing meant value to me, untill i knew him and why.
When i knew this, i accepted him, his rules, and i do hold myself accountable to him…not myself! This is why rallying, leagleizing and supporting an agenda seems wrong. It is like a gang in some ways, their presence is known, only when given the stage.
Politicians need to stand up more than for legal issues, they need to be more morally sound. This is where the struggle is, having it heard as wrong for the people. Not on the streets. It’s like giving attention to a temper tantrum of a child.
Maybe i’m off here, i don’t know. The battle should be a legal one. When it comes to people, that is different. We need to do as Jesus would. in my humbled oppinion.
E
Edwin1961
Guest
Jennifer,
I got a response!
I went head and e-mailed NOReview and they forward my request directly to Ronald Lee. So I sent Ron my opinons about his article.
I’m just waiting for his response.
B
beckyann2597
Guest
Did everybody already have a subscription to this site? I couldn’t read the rest of the article because it siad I had to buy a subscription or pay $1.50 to read it. Could someone IM me the rest of the article (copy and paste it)? Is that against the rules?
–Rebecca
–Rebecca
J
Jennifer123
Guest
Sorry, I’m not a subscriber. I should have posted it in its entirety I guess.
I didn’t realize it would archive, I guess it was free for a while.
J
Jennifer123
Guest
Cool! Let us know if he sends something back!!
T
TheRam
Guest
I was only offered it in part as well, and the cost thing came up…Sorry, I’m not a subscriber. I should have posted it in its entirety I guess.
This could account for the differenced in interpretation…although we have the same compassion!
- Status