Bahá'í

[flameburns623]

What was the purpose, BTW, of using SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY!!! riflemen? In the ordinary way of things, a firing-squad of say, seven, with one rifle loaded only with powder, is usually deemed adequate.

750 Riflemen, assuming only half or three-fifths of them struck their target, would reduce the corpses to hamburger. (Sorry to be indelicate).

Not to mention arranging such a huge number of executioners so that they would have clear view of the targets without endangering one another.

Even if the intent were to desecrate the corpses there would seem to be easier ways. Quicklime, for instance.

It seems rather absurd. Just wondering if anyone knew.

 

[flameburns623]

What was the purpose, BTW, of using SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY!!! riflemen? In the ordinary way of things, a firing-squad of say, seven, with one rifle loaded only with powder, is usually deemed adequate.

750 Riflemen, assuming only half or three-fifths of them struck their target, would reduce the corpses to hamburger. (Sorry to be indelicate).

Not to mention arranging such a huge number of executioners so that they would have clear view of the targets without endangering one another.

Even if the intent were to desecrate the corpses there would seem to be easier ways. Quicklime, for instance.

It seems rather absurd. Just wondering if anyone knew.

 

[arthra]

What was the purpose, BTW, of using SEVEN HUNDRED AND FIFTY!!! riflemen? In the ordinary way of things, a firing-squad of say, seven, with one rifle loaded only with powder, is usually deemed adequate.

750 Riflemen, assuming only half or three-fifths of them struck their target, would reduce the corpses to hamburger. (Sorry to be indelicate).

Not to mention arranging such a huge number of executioners so that they would have clear view of the targets without endangering one another.

Even if the intent were to desecrate the corpses there would seem to be easier ways. Quicklime, for instance.

It seems rather absurd. Just wondering if anyone knew.

You’d have to ask the Qajar dynasty about that…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_of_the_B%C3%A1b

Also these were muskets used in those days so when they all went off there was a cloud…

 

[flameburns623]

I believed the story. I’m just wondering how many kinds of crazy you have to be to use 750 guys to shoot two other guys who are unarmed and bound.

Or mebbe not so cray: 649 of the shooters missed altogether, and one managed to “lightly wound” the Bab’s associate. They needed a second chance to get the range of their muskets.

I have cause to shoot episodically. I and 12-15 other folks fire off 50 rounds of ammo apiece in about ten minutes. Approximately as much ammo as one volley of 750 musketeers. The range gets plenty smokey using modern “smokeless” ammo: I can only imagine 750 muskets.

I’ve seen folks fail the qualification requirements–but I’ve never seen ANYONE fail to land at least a couple “fatal” shots on their target. Was this regime selecting it’s rifleman based on absolute ignorance of firearms?

Apart from the insanity of trying to keep seven-hundred-fifty gawdawful bad shooters from shooting EACH OTHER.

Look, no disrespect intended to the Bab. This was an utterly nasty episode of history. I hope you understand that my dry humor is being directed at the regime-that-couldn’t-shoot-straight. It is not mockery of the Bab or of the origins of the Baha’i Faith.

 

[Servant19]

…or maybe it was a miracle…

The first chief officer of the first firing squad was Christian. He has an interesting story…

…also PR, you didn’t answer any of my questions

 

[PRmerger]

…or maybe it was a miracle…

The first chief officer of the first firing squad was Christian. He has an interesting story…

…also PR, you didn’t answer any of my questions

Which questions?

 

[PRmerger]

…or maybe it was a miracle…

The first chief officer of the first firing squad was Christian. He has an interesting story…

…also PR, you didn’t answer any of my questions

Incidentally, you said that you could provide a list of “clear criteria” to differentiate true prophets from false prophets.

Where is this list?

If you asked me the same question requiring criteria to differentiate Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, the Bab, Bahaullah, Zoroaster, Buddha and Krishna from Mr. L. Ron Hubbard (false prophet), Sun Myung Moon (false prophet), David Koresh (false prophet), Rael (false prophet) I could provide you with a clear set of criteria in the form of a list.

 

[ChristianBahai]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to join in the dialogue on Bahai’s and their tie into Christianity. I was raised a Catholic, and I still attend Catholis church from time to time. In middle/high school my best friend went to a Methodist church so I grew in God there a lot. As many young people I pulled back from my faith throughout college only to come back stronger once I graduated. I learned of the Bahai faith a few years ago after careful study on the convergence of world religons. I have now joined the Bahai faith, but I still attend Methodist church. My children attend Catholic school. I want every Catholic to know that God’s message through Baha’lu’llah is nothing short of amazing. I’m currently reading a great book titled “The Wine of Astonishment” by William Sears, and it has some great details into the relationship of Bahai understanding compared to Christianity. God’s will will be done, and in my studies it seems evident to me that Baha’lu’llah’s message is the word of God for this age as Jesus spoke the word of God to the people of his time. I am a Christian first, and my belief in Jesus as my savior is strong. We should all seek to understand God’s message to us in THIS AGE. He explains many of the difficult messages of the Bible in ways religious leaders have not. He takes out the literal readings, and explains the “inner truth” behind the outward descriptions. Excluding Baha’lu’llah’s explanations of God’s previous messages without exploring them would be unfortunate. His messages and explanations of God’s will for humanity strike a cord with my soul. That is why I believe in Baha’lu’llah’s message as the word of God for today’s time, and I believe in his message as much as I know Jesus Christ is my lord and savior. I hope someone will have an open mind to my my post, read some official Bahai literature and reply with a sincere message with honest and positive feedback.

 

[MartinJordan]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to join in the dialogue on Bahai’s and their tie into Christianity. I was raised a Catholic, and I still attend Catholis church from time to time. In middle/high school my best friend went to a Methodist church so I grew in God there a lot. As many young people I pulled back from my faith throughout college only to come back stronger once I graduated. I learned of the Bahai faith a few years ago after careful study on the convergence of world religons. I have now joined the Bahai faith, but I still attend Methodist church. My children attend Catholic school. I want every Catholic to know that God’s message through Baha’lu’llah is nothing short of amazing. I’m currently reading a great book titled “The Wine of Astonishment” by William Sears, and it has some great details into the relationship of Bahai understanding compared to Christianity. God’s will will be done, and in my studies it seems evident to me that Baha’lu’llah’s message is the word of God for this age as Jesus spoke the word of God to the people of his time. I am a Christian first, and my belief in Jesus as my savior is strong. We should all seek to understand God’s message to us in THIS AGE. He explains many of the difficult messages of the Bible in ways religious leaders have not. He takes out the literal readings, and explains the “inner truth” behind the outward descriptions. Excluding Baha’lu’llah’s explanations of God’s previous messages without exploring them would be unfortunate. His messages and explanations of God’s will for humanity strike a cord with my soul. That is why I believe in Baha’lu’llah’s message as the word of God for today’s time, and I believe in his message as much as I know Jesus Christ is my lord and savior. I hope someone will have an open mind to my my post, read some official Bahai literature and reply with a sincere message with honest and positive feedback.

Hi. When you do attend Catholic Mass, are you taking the communion Host? If so, I trust you believe in the Real Presence? That you are truly consuming Jesus’ Body (Real Flesh) and blood (Real drink) like he said we should.

If you don’t believe in it, I pray you reveal this to the Priest at the church and refrain from receiving Our Lord’s Precious Body and Blood.

MJ

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

I believed the story. I’m just wondering how many kinds of crazy you have to be to use 750 guys to shoot two other guys who are unarmed and bound.

Not all of the 750 men were in the firing squad. Most, naturally, were there to impress and control the crowd. But this has been lost sight of, so we see accounts in which 750 men actually fired, in 3 ranks of 250 men. It’s quite impossible, as the men on the end of the ranks would be too far away to hit the target. In 1865, Mirza Kazem-Beg, a Russian from the Caucasus, wrote a book on the Babis, Bab i Babidui, which was published in French in the Journal Asiatique in 1866. Kazem Beg’s account of the event says:

“At a signal, a platoon from the Christian regiment advanced and fired. By an extraordinary chance, the musket balls struck only the cords with which the Bab was tied: they broke and he felt himself free. A clamour arose. The Bab, it is said, moved towards the people in an attempt to persuade them it was a miracle.”

There are several other accounts and an analysis of how the story of the 750 muskets developed on my blog at:

750 Muskets

 

[Servant19]

Which questions?

Hi PR,

There were some questions I posed here:

What we are doing here by creating a list of criteria is to create an objective analysis of what constitutes a True Prophet, and what constitutes a false prophet.

What are some of the objectively observed characteristics that Jesus showed that can be used as a criterion for discerning the truth in the claim of other prophets/Prophets?

What we are striving for is objectivity. Of course, with subjective experiences, Jesus was God for some and Satan to others, as was Bahaullah…

How can we extrapolate the CONCEPT that these characteristics are trying to show forth, rather than focussing on the details of the characteristic?

For example, a human being has a brain, breathes, has skin, and a heartbeat. It would be folly to say that you are only human if you have only blue eyes, black skin and a heartbeat over 130bpm, wouldn’t it? Characteristics that make a human are not so specific as to make them useless. Humans share a similar broad characteristic.

In like manner, what are some of the broader characteristics that allow an objective observer to say that these are the characteristics of a True Prophet?

When we look back in history, we see that the Personage of a True Prophet shares simulate characteristics from age to age.

Jesus was seen as a mere carpenter, Bahaullah was seen as a mere prisoner, the Bab was seen as a mere merchant.

Jesus, when He chose to, caused people to see the Glory of God through His deeds, His miracles, His loving kindness, as did Bahaullah and the Bab.

These characteristics are shared by these Prophets.

Since you were asserting that there was no difference in the Personage of Jesus compared to the personage of David Koresh, I would like to know how you can ascertain that Jesus was who He said He was…

 

[PRmerger]

Since you were asserting that there was no difference in the Personage of Jesus compared to the personage of David Koresh,

Firstly, could you please show where I said there was no difference in the Personage of Jesus compared to the personage of David Koresh?

Also, could you provide your list of clear criteria to ascertain a true prophet from a false one?

 

[Servant19]

Firstly, could you please show where I said there was no difference in the Personage of Jesus compared to the personage of David Koresh?

Also, could you provide your list of clear criteria to ascertain a true prophet from a false one?

It was posts #316 and #317

The criteria I set was that the Personage of the Prophet distinguishes. You said in post 317 that there was no difference between Koresh and Jesus based on my first criteria (which was the Personage)

I’m happy to post further criteria but I am short on time right now, plus it would be uniting to get collaborative understanding on criteria 1

 

[Mickey]

it seems evident to me that Baha’lu’llah’s message is the word of God for this age as Jesus spoke the word of God to the people of his time.

Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. His message is for all time…of this age…and unto the ages of ages. Amen.

 

[Servant19]

Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. His message is for all time…of this age…and unto the ages of ages. Amen.

So why do you need a Pope?

 

[Mickey]

So why do you need a Pope?

I don’t have a Pope. But my understanding is that he is the bishop of Rome. Perhaps some Catholics could answer your question.

Are you saying that you view Balalullah as a type of bishop?

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

So why do you need a Pope?

For the same reason you need a universal council of Justice.

 

[PRmerger]

Hi PR,

There were some questions I posed here:

Since you were asserting that there was no difference in the Personage of Jesus compared to the personage of David Koresh, I would like to know how you can ascertain that Jesus was who He said He was…

Firstly, could you please show where I said there was no difference in the Personage of Jesus compared to the personage of David Koresh?

Also, could you provide your list of clear criteria to ascertain a true prophet from a false one?

It was posts #316 and #317

The criteria I set was that the Personage of the Prophet distinguishes. You said in post 317 that there was no difference between Koresh and Jesus based on my first criteria (which was the Personage)

Ah, I see, then. You forgot to mention the critical part about “based on my first criteria.”

So, yes, based on your criterion #1 it appears that Jesus and David Koresh would both fall into the category of True Prophet.

I’m happy to post further criteria but I am short on time right now, plus it would be uniting to get collaborative understanding on criteria 1

I thought you said you could do this very easily?

 

[ChristianBahai]

Hi. When you do attend Catholic Mass, are you taking the communion Host? If so, I trust you believe in the Real Presence? That you are truly consuming Jesus’ Body (Real Flesh) and blood (Real drink) like he said we should.

If you don’t believe in it, I pray you reveal this to the Priest at the church and refrain from receiving Our Lord’s Precious Body and Blood.

MJ

Hi MJ,

Please know I only wish to have nice dialogue, and I know many may not agree with my understanding at first read. I take my knowledge direct from Bahá’u’lláh as he spoke the word of God for our Age. He presented explanations for things our Catholic church has fought over for thousands of years!

I accept communion at both our Methodist church and at Catholic Mass as well. For me the ability for a human priest to transform simple communion host into the true body & blood of Jesus Christ our savior is not really relevant. Jesus is my savior. I know and understand that, but Jesus is in heaven with God in spirit. His “message” to humanity is most important so I don’t know how it really matters that the host is truely his body and or the wine his blood. I do not subscribe to ALL Catholic doctrine as it has been developed slowly over the last 2,000 years, and much of it could use some revision. The doctrines of the Catholic church are part of what caused me to search further for divine direction in my spiritual growth. Many times the doctrine takes the Bible literally when in fact that was how God had to present it to the people of Jesus’ time. There is more current direction to those statements from the Bible, and exactly what they mean for today. Many of the explanations from God tell us that the Bible is not literal in what it says, but in many cases symbolical. The Bible is presenting inner truths through terms and expressions that BC and early AD people could understand that was given to man so he could understand it (at that time and age). I am seeking a close relationship with God, and I can assure you that my acceptance of exact Catholic doctrine as dictated by Rome in no way affect my ability to know, worship and love my creator and my savior, Jesus Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

His “message” to humanity is most important…

This is not a Christian concept.

Jesus did not come to preach a message. In fact, his message was already known by any morally sane person. Love your neighbor. Love God. Turn the other cheek.

While I do not mean to dismiss His message, Jesus did not say anything new essentially.

Instead, Jesus came to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

That is why we worship Him.

Not because of His message.