Baha'i Returns Thread: Ask Any of Many Baha'i

[SteveVH]

You keep mixing up the idea of death of the body and death of the soul. Jesus said not to fear that which can kill the body but can’t kill the soul.

Do you believe that people go to heaven or not?

You need to quote Jesus’ entire statement:

“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” (Matthew 10:28)

Do you believe that people go to hell?

 

[PRmerger]

Why is there a Christian assumption that just because something is limitless or infinite in some aspect, that it makes it equal to God?

The universe itself may very well be infinite and limitless in size, but that doesn’t make it God…

I understand what you’re saying. But I think a distinction needs to be made between an infinite creation and and Infinite Creator. When you say that there can be an infinite creation, that means that there is no distinction between creation and Creator.

 

[PRmerger]

Well I can certainly assert that it’s not by WORDS alone, which is how all are judging the Bahai Faith on this thread…

It’s only through ACTIONING the Word of God that its true meaning is ascertained. The Word of God is living. It assumes a life of its own and its true meaning is LEARNT through ACTION, NOT, I repeat NOT provided like a spoon full of sugar by a man who “assumes” learning while sitting in his church office, preparing his next sermon.

This is why Little Star is in actuality a very BIG STAR. She actually comes across as someone who wants to APPLY the Word of God into action and has learnt the true meaning of this Word through living experience, not by reading book after book, or being spoon fed by priest after priest.

You do realize, Servant, that you are judging Little Star by WORDS alone.

It is based on what she has posted here alone that you are saying that she comes across as someone who wants to apply the Word of God.

 

[PRmerger]

Why would Jesus return to atone for our sins again ??

I don’t know. Why would he?

 

[PRmerger]

Yes, there is endless potential for growth and development. Man is imperfect, that is part of our nature, so in relation to God, we continue to be limited and imperfect even though we improve endlessly.

Nope. We don’t improve endlessly. Once we have achieved the Beatific Vision we have achieved our Final End. There is nothing more to add to being One with Him in heaven.

Are all saints equally saintly? Could they not be more so?

The saints in heaven could not be any more saintly than that which they are at this moment.

 

[PRmerger]

Baha’u’llah has made that clear, He has revealed that God’s creation is endless, and man can progress endlessly within that creation.So, if God had not revealed it either affirmatively or negatively in Christianity or previous dispensations, then there is no basis in Christianity to say that Baha’u’llah was wrong about that.

But I have no reason to accept Baha’u’llah’s words as true. He could just as easily say that he is revealing that God predestined dinosaurs to be the angel’s workhorses in heaven, and that they are currently being kept in cages in heaven…but I would have no reason, at all, to believe that this is true. Even if the Church has not revealed either affirmatively or negatively what God’s intention was for dinosaurs.

 

[PRmerger]

Very true, because the gift of faith comes through God’s grace.

Yes.

Didn’t we conclude on another thread that an atheist could not be in heaven? Certainly there are plenty of former atheists in heaven, and the point at which they converted is between them and God, whether they really were believers all along but didn’t know it, or they converted at the instant of death, by God’s grace

Indeed.

I am asking if you can follow the reasoning. It is a separate issue as to whether it conforms with Christian theology or not.

What reasoning? That life without growth is not life?

If that is what you mean, I think that eternal life requires no growth, yet it remains life, eternally.

 

[arthra]

Any one have any questions they’d like to ask?

 

[janeway529]

I’ve heard that the Baha’i do not have a formal hierarchical structure in terms of leadership (like the Catholic Church, for example), but have elected leaders/elders to help guide the community. Could you explain this? Thanks.

 

[daler]

Well forgive for being a bit critical, but do you have anything more solid from your own prophet? But why does death suddenly become bad, something evil if it happens by the will of someone who doesn’t want the other to live? In any circumstance? Is it still not a blessed release from life?

Ignatian,

I think that the answer to your question lies within the question. It has to do with “will”.

God gives us free will, right? Then He gives us Commandments to obey, which require our submission to His will. The soul who is willfully submissive to the Commandments of God is innocent, an necessarily “good”.

The soul who willfully disobeys the Commandments of God and kills another soul is “evil”.

When death comes to us naturally, as a leaf falling from a tree in autumn, or by some other process, such as at the hand of one who commits murder, we retain our innocence in that context, and the premature loss of our physical life does not hinder the progress of the soul which has been submissive to God’s Will and obedient to His Commandments.

. “Let none contend with another, and let no soul slay another; this, verily, is that which was forbidden you in a Book that hath lain concealed within the Tabernacle of glory. What! Would ye kill him whom God hath quickened, whom He hath endowed with spirit through a breath from Him? Grievous then would be your trespass before His throne! Fear God, and lift not the hand of injustice and oppression to destroy what He hath Himself raised up; nay, walk ye in the way of God, the True One.”

(Bahá’u’lláh, The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 46)

. “There is no fire in the eyes of those who have known God and His signs, fiercer than to transgress His laws and to oppress another soul, even to the extent of a mustard seed.”

(The Bab, Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p. 79)

 

[daler]

I’ve heard that the Baha’i do not have a formal hierarchical structure in terms of leadership (like the Catholic Church, for example), but have elected leaders/elders to help guide the community. Could you explain this? Thanks.

There are no clergy in the Baha’i Faith. An emphasis on education for all with the belief that everyone must independently investigate the truth and is responsible for themselves spiritually is the basis for which ritual is unnecessary. Interpretation of the Holy Texts if forbidden. That is, I cannot tell you what this or that means, for you have your own eyes and God has provided each and all with faculties of reason.

In every community where there are at least 9 adults aged 21 years or more, there is held an annual election of members to fill the positions of the Local Spiritual Assembly, who then meet to administer the affairs of the community. No one has authority over another, whether they are a member of the Assembly or not. The decisions of the Assembly, however, are to be obeyed and this is how the community functions in unity.

The Elections are held in the spring each year and there is a secret ballot in which Baha’is vote for the nine members whom they (each Baha’i) regard as best fulfilling the capacity to serve the community and uphold Baha’i principals and laws. There is no electioneering, campaigning, or mentioning of whom you wish to vote for. It is regarded as a sacred obligation to participate in this manner in the elections.

Also, each year there is also a vote for delegates to the National Convention. When those delegates of the regions throughout, for example, the United States, meet in the spring, they elect members of the National Spiritual Assembly.

Every five years there is an election of the members of the Universal House of Justice by the gathering of all of the National Spiritual Assemblies of the World.

Here is a Wikipedia link on some statistics for the Baha’i Faith:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahá’%C3%AD_statistics

 

[Jcc1960]

You need to quote Jesus’ entire statement:

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell." (Matthew 10:28)

Do you believe that people go to hell?

Yes. Heaven is the condition of being near to God, and hell is the opposite. From Matthew, it is seen that both body and soul can be in hell, but it is the result of the state of the soul and the resulting decisions we make.

 

[Jcc1960]

Nope. We don’t improve endlessly. Once we have achieved the Beatific Vision we have achieved our Final End. There is nothing more to add to being One with Him in heaven.

The saints in heaven could not be any more saintly than that which they are at this moment.

What do you mean by being One with God? I may use the same term, but I am curious about how you understand that. Eastern religions use similar terminology.

To me the notion of reaching a Final End with nothing more to add does not glorify God in the way that endless progress does. And, it is incongruous with the definition of life and living.

 

[PRmerger]

What do you mean by being One with God? I may use the same term, but I am curious about how you understand that. Eastern religions use similar terminology.

It means our perfection has been achieved in our union with Him.

To me the notion of reaching a Final End with nothing more to add does not glorify God in the way that endless progress does.

And to me, endless progress does not glorify God. It seems…endless. And purposeless.

And, it is incongruous with the definition of life and living.

But not with eternal life.

And your version seems incongruous with union with the Godhead. If one is united with Him, what more is there to progress to?

 

[arthra]

I’ve heard that the Baha’i do not have a formal hierarchical structure in terms of leadership (like the Catholic Church, for example), but have elected leaders/elders to help guide the community. Could you explain this? Thanks.

I believe Daler above has covered this pretty well…

I just wanted to suggest that in Baha’i communities we have the guidance from the Universal House of Justice which is elected every five years by representatives of our National Spiritual Assemblies around the globe. The Universal House of Justice is the Center of the Faith and deals primarily with issues not specifically covered in the Writings.

The Baha’i Writings you could say constitutes “scripture” for us and are the revealed Writings of Baha’u’llah, the Bab and Abdul-Baha…The interpretations of these Writings by Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi are still regarded as authoritative.

No Baha’i by themselves is an “authority” unless they are acting on behalf of a Baha’i institution… Also aside from elected institutions on the local, national and international level there are appointed Counselors who have a limited scope in how they carry out their tasks. There is an appeal process available to the believer from the local to the national and up to the Supreme Institution of the Universal House of Justice.

 

[arthra]

“Merger” wrote above:

“And your version seems incongruous with union with the Godhead. If one is united with Him, what more is there to progress to? __________________”

For Baha’is anyway… I would suggest that the highest station we would envision is being in the presence of God… not being in “… union with the Godhead”.

From the Baha’i Writings:

If thou seekest eternal glory, let thyself be humble and meek in the presence of the beloved of God; make thyself the servant of all, and serve all alike.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 61)

 

[PRmerger]

The Baha’i Writings you could say constitutes “scripture” for us and are the revealed Writings of Baha’u’llah, the Bab and Abdul-Baha…The interpretations of these Writings by Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi are still regarded as authoritative.

What do you mean by “authoritative”?

 

[PRmerger]

“Merger” wrote above:

“And your version seems incongruous with union with the Godhead. If one is united with Him, what more is there to progress to? __________________”

For Baha’is anyway… I would suggest that the highest station we would envision is being in the presence of God… not being “in union with the Godhead”.

From the Baha’i Writings:

If thou seekest eternal glory, let thyself be humble and meek in the presence of the beloved of God; make thyself the servant of all, and serve all alike.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 61)

Then how is it that when one has achieved the “highest station”–that is, one is in the presence of God in heaven–that one progresses even more?

 

[arthra]

What do you mean by “authoritative”?

Meaning that even the House of Justice still defers to the interpretations of the Writings by Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

 

[arthra]

Then how is it that when one has achieved the “highest station”–that is, one is in the presence of God in heaven–that one progresses even more?

Sorry…I don’t know that I personally can comment on that… because I have yet to even approach the dust of His throne…