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Porknpie
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PRmerger
Guest
Merton’s death did not atone for the sins of humanity.
It is like the difference between a good piece of bread, wholesome and filling, and the Eucharist, which is the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of the Eternal Godhead.
So, yes, Merton and the Eternal Logos are not one the same. They are infinitely separated in his humanity.
However, Merton and your prophets have many similarities. I give them a
when they profess things consonant with the Word of God.
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PRmerger
Guest
Whatever Pharisees recognized Jesus as Messiah got it right. What a peculiar question.
Since they conversed when Jesus was Transfigured, I’m pretty sure he knew Jesus was the Messiah.
Because we all have free will, Servant.
Because they were fallible.
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PRmerger
Guest
We are talking about moral law, Servant. Not dietary restrictions.
And for one of your holy people to be having marital relations with a multitude of women is a violation of moral law, no matter what culture one lives.
I know you know that.
Everyone here knows that there is something inherently immoral about being sexually active with a multitude of partners.
Not when he was engaging in sexual relations with a multitude of women.I have no doubt that Jesus was sinless in His time and in His culture, as was Baha’u’llah
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arthra
Guest
**The Word of God **is a term we share… Baha’is and Christains…so it might be good to share how the term is used…
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
13:5 And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.
13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus: 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
12:24 But** the word of God** grew and multiplied.
2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
…
Wherefore, O my friend, it behooveth Us to exert the highest endeavour to attain unto that City, and, by the grace of God and His loving-kindness, rend asunder the “veils of glory”; so that, with inflexible steadfastness, we may sacrifice our drooping souls in the path of the New Beloved. We should with tearful eyes, fervently and repeatedly, implore Him to grant us the favour of that grace. That city is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad the Messenger of God the Qur’án; in this day the Bayan; and in the dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest His own Book – the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book which standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme. In these cities spiritual sustenance is bountifully provided, and incorruptible delights have been ordained. The food they bestow is the bread of heaven, and the Spirit they impart is God’s imperishable blessing.
In yet another instance, He saith: “A part of them heard the Word of God, and then, after they had understood it, distorted it, and knew that they did so.”[1] This verse, too, doth indicate that the meaning of the Word of God hath been perverted, not that the actual words have been effaced. To the truth of this testify they that are sound of mind.
[1 Qur’án 2:75.]
In like manner, reflect how the elevated heavens of the Dispensations of the past have, in the right hand of power, been folded together, how the 49 heavens of divine Revelation have been raised by the command of God, and been adorned by the sun, the moon, and stars of His wondrous commandments. Such are the mysteries of the Word of God, which have been unveiled and made manifest, that haply thou mayest apprehend the morning light of divine guidance, mayest quench, by the power of reliance and renunciation, the lamp of idle fancy, of vain imaginings, of hesitation, and doubt, and mayest kindle, in the inmost chamber of thine heart, the new-born light of divine knowledge and certitude.
“O friends, help the Oppressed One with well-pleasing virtues and good deeds! Today let every soul desire to attain the highest station. He must not regard what is in him, but what is in God. It is not for him to regard what shall advantage himself, but that whereby the Word of God which must be obeyed shall be upraised…”
(citing Baha’u’llah)
~ Abdu’l-Baha, A Traveller’s Narrative, p. 45
Blessed are ye who are assembled in the shadow of the Word of God, who are abiding in the cave of the Covenant of God, who are comforted by dwelling in the Paradise of El-ABHA [1], who are cheerfully moved with the breezes which blow from the point of the providence of God, and who have arisen to render service to the Cause of God, to promulgate the Religion of God, to promote **the Word of God **and to hoist the standards of sanctity in those regions and climes.
[1 ABHA – literally, the Most Glorious.]
As to those souls who are preaching the Word of God, it behooveth them to shake the dust of every land which they have passed by off their shoes and to be with God and without need of the rich – although their bed is the soil, their light is the stars of the sky and their food is the herbs of the desert – because theirs is the wealth of the Kingdom, the honor of the realm of might and the bounty of the divine world; and they are not in want of this world and its cares. Their throne is the mat of humility, their honor is in suffering every lowliness in the path of the Loving Lord and their wealth is being empty-handed from the pomps of the world and its vanities and their provision is trusting in God and being severed from all that is on the earth and its wealth.
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
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(King James Bible, John)13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus: 13:7 Which was with the deputy of the country, Sergius Paulus, a prudent man; who called for Barnabas and Saul, and desired to hear the word of God.
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(King James Bible, Acts)
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(King James Bible, Acts)
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(King James Bible, 1 John)Wherefore, O my friend, it behooveth Us to exert the highest endeavour to attain unto that City, and, by the grace of God and His loving-kindness, rend asunder the “veils of glory”; so that, with inflexible steadfastness, we may sacrifice our drooping souls in the path of the New Beloved. We should with tearful eyes, fervently and repeatedly, implore Him to grant us the favour of that grace. That city is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus the Gospel; in the days of Muhammad the Messenger of God the Qur’án; in this day the Bayan; and in the dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest His own Book – the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book which standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme. In these cities spiritual sustenance is bountifully provided, and incorruptible delights have been ordained. The food they bestow is the bread of heaven, and the Spirit they impart is God’s imperishable blessing.
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(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 199)[1 Qur’án 2:75.]
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(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 87)
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(Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 48)(citing Baha’u’llah)
~ Abdu’l-Baha, A Traveller’s Narrative, p. 45
Blessed are ye who are assembled in the shadow of the Word of God, who are abiding in the cave of the Covenant of God, who are comforted by dwelling in the Paradise of El-ABHA [1], who are cheerfully moved with the breezes which blow from the point of the providence of God, and who have arisen to render service to the Cause of God, to promulgate the Religion of God, to promote **the Word of God **and to hoist the standards of sanctity in those regions and climes.
[1 ABHA – literally, the Most Glorious.]
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(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 1)(Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 60)
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Sen_McGlinn
Guest
It is a big jump from saying that monogamy was the ideal God had in mind, and noting the practical disadvantages of polygamy (I agree on both points), to saying that Abraham and other patriarchs grossly sinned. While polygamous marriage is less than ideal, there may nevertheless be situations in which it is the most ethical choice. One example is most of the marriages of Muhammad: he married widows and older women, and had children only by Khadijah and Maria. Baha’u’llah’s second wife, Fatemeh, was also a widow, and the Nuri family had obligations to her since Baha’u’llah’s father had arranged her first marriage, to a much older man who was an associate of Baha’u’llah’s father.
You asked “Does the practice immediately become wrong as soon as the revelation is revealed?” If we are speaking of practices such as forms of worship, family law, dietary laws and so on; these are not right or wrong. Each religious community has its own, and they are as I said before a badge of discipleship. I for example do not take communion, since I am a Bahai not a Christian. But I do not consider it wrong for a Christian to take communion; for them it is the right form. Christians do not pray at the wailing wall, but it is not wrong for Jews to do so.
In contrast, cruelty, deception, greed and cowardice are wrong. if we find a (claimed) Manifestation of God is cruel, deceptive or greedy, we know they are false. He who lies, serves the lord of lies.
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arthra
Guest
Has there ever been an extraordinary event within the Baha’i faith? If so,** please tell me how it was verified historically?** I’d still like to see an answer to this from a Baha’i.
Hmmm… I was thinking what events recorded in our history would not be extraordinary but let’s see if I can think of any:
At the same time, they seized the Báb and tied him again to the fatal post. This time the execution was effective. Muhammadan justice and ecclesiastical law had asserted themselves. But the crowd, vividly impressed by the spectacle they had witnessed, dispersed slowly, hardly convinced that the Báb was a criminal. After all his crime was only a crime for the legalists and the world is indulgent toward crimes which it does not understand." (M.C. Huart’s “La Religion du Báb,” pp. 3-4.) “An extraordinary thing happened, unique in the annals of the history of humanity: the bullets cut the cords that held the Báb and he fell on his feet without a scratch.” (A. L. M. Nicolas’ “Siyyid Ali-Muhammad dit le Báb,” p. 375.) "By a strange coincidence, the bullet only touched the cords which bound the Báb, they were broken and he felt himself free. Uproar and shouts arose on all sides, no one understanding at first what it was all about." (Ibid., p. 379.)]
Regarding Tahireh also known as Qurratu’l-'Ayn:
The other missionary, the woman to whom I refer, had come to Qazvin. She was without doubt, at the same time, the object of the Bábís highest veneration and one of the most strikingly fascinating manifestations of that religion." (Comte de Gobineau’s “Les Religions et les Philosophies dans l’Asie Centrale,” p. 136.) “Many who have known her and heard her at different times have stated that, for a person so learned and so well read, the outstanding characteristic of her discourse was an amazing simplicity and still, when she spoke, her audience was deeply stirred and filled with admiration, often in tears.” (Ibid., p. 150.) “Although the Muhammadans and Bábís speak in the highest terms of the beauty of ‘Consolation of the Eyes,’ it is beyond dispute that the intelligence and character of this young woman were even more remarkable than has been related. Having heard, almost daily, learned conversations, it seems that, at an early age, she had taken a deep interest in them; hence it came about that she was perfectly able to follow the subtle arguments of her father, her uncle, her cousin and now her husband, and even to debate with them and frequently to astonish them with the power and keenness of her mind. In Persia, one does not frequently see women engaged in intellectual pursuits but, nevertheless, it does sometimes occur. What is really extraordinary is to find a woman of the ability of Qurratu’l-'Ayn. Not only did she carry her knowledge of Arabic to an unusual degree of perfection, but she became also outstanding in the knowledge of the traditions of Islam and of the varied interpretations of the disputed passages of the Qur’án and of the great writers. In Qazvin, she was rightly considered a prodigy.” (Ibid., p. 137.)]
The above are just a few of the examples I found on a cursory search…there are of course more…
Hmmm… I was thinking what events recorded in our history would not be extraordinary but let’s see if I can think of any:
At the same time, they seized the Báb and tied him again to the fatal post. This time the execution was effective. Muhammadan justice and ecclesiastical law had asserted themselves. But the crowd, vividly impressed by the spectacle they had witnessed, dispersed slowly, hardly convinced that the Báb was a criminal. After all his crime was only a crime for the legalists and the world is indulgent toward crimes which it does not understand." (M.C. Huart’s “La Religion du Báb,” pp. 3-4.) “An extraordinary thing happened, unique in the annals of the history of humanity: the bullets cut the cords that held the Báb and he fell on his feet without a scratch.” (A. L. M. Nicolas’ “Siyyid Ali-Muhammad dit le Báb,” p. 375.) "By a strange coincidence, the bullet only touched the cords which bound the Báb, they were broken and he felt himself free. Uproar and shouts arose on all sides, no one understanding at first what it was all about." (Ibid., p. 379.)]
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(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 514)The other missionary, the woman to whom I refer, had come to Qazvin. She was without doubt, at the same time, the object of the Bábís highest veneration and one of the most strikingly fascinating manifestations of that religion." (Comte de Gobineau’s “Les Religions et les Philosophies dans l’Asie Centrale,” p. 136.) “Many who have known her and heard her at different times have stated that, for a person so learned and so well read, the outstanding characteristic of her discourse was an amazing simplicity and still, when she spoke, her audience was deeply stirred and filled with admiration, often in tears.” (Ibid., p. 150.) “Although the Muhammadans and Bábís speak in the highest terms of the beauty of ‘Consolation of the Eyes,’ it is beyond dispute that the intelligence and character of this young woman were even more remarkable than has been related. Having heard, almost daily, learned conversations, it seems that, at an early age, she had taken a deep interest in them; hence it came about that she was perfectly able to follow the subtle arguments of her father, her uncle, her cousin and now her husband, and even to debate with them and frequently to astonish them with the power and keenness of her mind. In Persia, one does not frequently see women engaged in intellectual pursuits but, nevertheless, it does sometimes occur. What is really extraordinary is to find a woman of the ability of Qurratu’l-'Ayn. Not only did she carry her knowledge of Arabic to an unusual degree of perfection, but she became also outstanding in the knowledge of the traditions of Islam and of the varied interpretations of the disputed passages of the Qur’án and of the great writers. In Qazvin, she was rightly considered a prodigy.” (Ibid., p. 137.)]
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(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 629)
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SteveVH
Guest
“In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.” (Heb 1:1-2)
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Lochias
Guest
One of St. Francis’ brothers in his original fold said once that he wished that men had long necks like storks, so that words would become stuck in their throats more often.
It seems to me as if the Bahai here are essentially offering up the same 3 or 4 posts, over and over again, with various decoration attached.
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SteveVH
Guest
Huh? Christ promised that we would be saved through human institutions?
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SteveVH
Guest
Oh, my… If this is truly a Baha’i belief I would exhort all Baha’i not to walk away from their religion, but to run as fast as they can.
The term “was” is not applicable, He is the Lord of all of all of human history and is sinless, period. Baha’u’llah, no matter how righteous he may have appeared, was, nevertheless, a sinner, as evidenced by his participation in polygamy.I have no doubt that Jesus was sinless in His time and in His culture, as was Baha’u’llah
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SteveVH
Guest
Arthra, which of is these quotes is from an independent source not associated with the Baha’i faith?Has there ever been an extraordinary event within the Baha’i faith? If so,** please tell me how it was verified historically?** I’d still like to see an answer to this from a Baha’i.
Hmmm… I was thinking what events recorded in our history would not be extraordinary but let’s see if I can think of any:
At the same time, they seized the Báb and tied him again to the fatal post. This time the execution was effective. Muhammadan justice and ecclesiastical law had asserted themselves. But the crowd, vividly impressed by the spectacle they had witnessed, dispersed slowly, hardly convinced that the Báb was a criminal. After all his crime was only a crime for the legalists and the world is indulgent toward crimes which it does not understand." (M.C. Huart’s “La Religion du Báb,” pp. 3-4.) “An extraordinary thing happened, unique in the annals of the history of humanity: the bullets cut the cords that held the Báb and he fell on his feet without a scratch.” (A. L. M. Nicolas’ “Siyyid Ali-Muhammad dit le Báb,” p. 375.) "By a strange coincidence, the bullet only touched the cords which bound the Báb, they were broken and he felt himself free. Uproar and shouts arose on all sides, no one understanding at first what it was all about." (Ibid., p. 379.)]
Regarding Tahireh also known as Qurratu’l-'Ayn:Code:(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 514)
The other missionary, the woman to whom I refer, had come to Qazvin. She was without doubt, at the same time, the object of the Bábís highest veneration and one of the most strikingly fascinating manifestations of that religion." (Comte de Gobineau’s “Les Religions et les Philosophies dans l’Asie Centrale,” p. 136.) “Many who have known her and heard her at different times have stated that, for a person so learned and so well read, the outstanding characteristic of her discourse was an amazing simplicity and still, when she spoke, her audience was deeply stirred and filled with admiration, often in tears.” (Ibid., p. 150.) “Although the Muhammadans and Bábís speak in the highest terms of the beauty of ‘Consolation of the Eyes,’ it is beyond dispute that the intelligence and character of this young woman were even more remarkable than has been related. Having heard, almost daily, learned conversations, it seems that, at an early age, she had taken a deep interest in them; hence it came about that she was perfectly able to follow the subtle arguments of her father, her uncle, her cousin and now her husband, and even to debate with them and frequently to astonish them with the power and keenness of her mind. In Persia, one does not frequently see women engaged in intellectual pursuits but, nevertheless, it does sometimes occur. What is really extraordinary is to find a woman of the ability of Qurratu’l-'Ayn. Not only did she carry her knowledge of Arabic to an unusual degree of perfection, but she became also outstanding in the knowledge of the traditions of Islam and of the varied interpretations of the disputed passages of the Qur’án and of the great writers. In Qazvin, she was rightly considered a prodigy.” (Ibid., p. 137.)]
The above are just a few of the examples I found on a cursory search…there are of course more…Code:(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 629)
Thanks.
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SteveVH
Guest
Thanks Sen. My only point is that when a simple question is asked, it seems that we must wade through so much language that it becomes a distraction to the discussion. I do understand that this mode of expression is common in many mid-eastern cultures.
One of my pet bugs is the way the dye from colourful Bahai scriptural language runs into Bahai-speak, like the colour of your white jockeys after being washed with new jeans.
There are good reasons why the Bahai scriptural translations look the way they do. “Day Spring” or “dawning place” for example both translate a technical term from astronomy, the term for the point on the horizon where a heavenly body rises, on a particular day. It’s a scientific analogy for the way the guidance of God appears at different places but is the same guidance. In a translation, where the original text is richly embroidered with terms and images that contain a theological point, the translator will try to preserve all of them, and by being consistent will try to enable an educated reader to see what terms lie behind the English, and therefore what extra points are being made by what looks like a rhetorical adornment.
However (in my view) Bahais should do their best to resist the tendency to start talking like the scripture that we read so often.
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eddie_too
Guest
first, in response to the bahai poster who claimed the bahai believe Jesus is tre God and true man, the only Son of God and the Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity, that simply does not agree with the bahai teaching that Jesus is a manifestation of God as are abraham, moses, mohammed and bahaullah. the bahai, in no way or form, agree with the RCC teachings on Jesus and the Holy Trinity. it is disingenuous for them to claim the do.
second, i do not want a reality like that bahaullah claimed to perceive. i do not want to live eternally in flux. i do not want to live eternally deprived of my senses of sight, hearing, feeling, tasting and smelling. that is what bahaullah wants people to believe. that is what bahaullah teaches is reality. that is what i totally reject. that is nothing like what Jesus teaches us is reality.
for a bahai to claim that they teach what the RCC teaches about Jesus is a flat out lie and i can see no good reason why they would claim otherwise.
the bahai teach that the human soul is never perfected, is never at rest and never shares perfectly its life with its Creator.
the bahai teach that the human soul is NEVER reunited with its human body.
the bahai are like our christian protestant sects in some ways, but are more similar to the non-christian religions that like to use Jesus to justify their teachings and existence.
what a christian must NEVER forget is that whatever in the bahai religion that agrees with the teachings of Jesus are much less significant than the bahai teachings that are contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
also, the christian should realize that the bahai teach that what christians believe about Jesus is wrong.
do not be deceived, bahaullah was nothing more than a human being who was quite good at stringing words together to deceive people.
if bahaullah were a true prophet of the One God, he would have acknowledge that Jesus is the ONLY Son of God. bahaullah did not do that. bahaullah claimed to be Jesus’ equal; and, in some respects, claimed to be superior to Jesus in that bahaullah’s teachings added to the teachings of Jesus and His Church.
in the its most important aspects, bahai is NOTHING like christianity. in its most important aspects, bahai contradicts christianity.
it is true that the bahai want to give honor to Jesus, but only to bring honor to bahaullah. the honor the bahai give to Jesus has nothing to do with christian teachings. it is contrary to christian teachings.
that is why the bahai persistently try to tell christians that what they have received from Christ and His apostles has been misinterpreted by those who came after the apostles.
the bahai have absolutely no evidence to support their blanket dismissal of christian teachings.
the support they give for dismissing christian teachings is fatuous and based primarily on their belief that bahaullah added to the works of Jesus.
second, i do not want a reality like that bahaullah claimed to perceive. i do not want to live eternally in flux. i do not want to live eternally deprived of my senses of sight, hearing, feeling, tasting and smelling. that is what bahaullah wants people to believe. that is what bahaullah teaches is reality. that is what i totally reject. that is nothing like what Jesus teaches us is reality.
for a bahai to claim that they teach what the RCC teaches about Jesus is a flat out lie and i can see no good reason why they would claim otherwise.
the bahai teach that the human soul is never perfected, is never at rest and never shares perfectly its life with its Creator.
the bahai teach that the human soul is NEVER reunited with its human body.
the bahai are like our christian protestant sects in some ways, but are more similar to the non-christian religions that like to use Jesus to justify their teachings and existence.
what a christian must NEVER forget is that whatever in the bahai religion that agrees with the teachings of Jesus are much less significant than the bahai teachings that are contrary to the teachings of Jesus.
also, the christian should realize that the bahai teach that what christians believe about Jesus is wrong.
do not be deceived, bahaullah was nothing more than a human being who was quite good at stringing words together to deceive people.
if bahaullah were a true prophet of the One God, he would have acknowledge that Jesus is the ONLY Son of God. bahaullah did not do that. bahaullah claimed to be Jesus’ equal; and, in some respects, claimed to be superior to Jesus in that bahaullah’s teachings added to the teachings of Jesus and His Church.
in the its most important aspects, bahai is NOTHING like christianity. in its most important aspects, bahai contradicts christianity.
it is true that the bahai want to give honor to Jesus, but only to bring honor to bahaullah. the honor the bahai give to Jesus has nothing to do with christian teachings. it is contrary to christian teachings.
that is why the bahai persistently try to tell christians that what they have received from Christ and His apostles has been misinterpreted by those who came after the apostles.
the bahai have absolutely no evidence to support their blanket dismissal of christian teachings.
the support they give for dismissing christian teachings is fatuous and based primarily on their belief that bahaullah added to the works of Jesus.
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SteveVH
Guest
It is understandable that those who have no miracles to claim would deem them unnecessary. But there have been purported “miracles” stated in this thread:, i.e. the 750 soldiers and others. You only need to seek “independent verification” if you are going to require it of others, which you have.
You would be correct in saying that there would be no Catholic faith (extend that to “Christian faith”) without the physical resurrection of Jesus. You see, he was different than other “prophets”. He actually backed up his claims by revealing his divine authority. “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.” He is the Temple and he did rise again in three days.
We have a lot of terms not found in the Bible. You will not find the word “Trinity” anywhere in the Bible either, yet it is a fundamental Christian doctrine.
We have never said that a glorified body is a natural body. It is a spiritual body but not in the same sense as a ghost, for instance. It is a reality for which there is no comparable analogy on earth because it is not natural. It is supernatural.
We are different than spiritual beings such as angels. When we think of “spiritual” it is in terms of non-physical; invisible. But the very nature of a human being is that we are composed of both body and soul. This does not change. Our human bodies, however, once glorified, can exist in the spiritual world because they have been transformed by God in order to make it so. It was Christ himself who demonstrated that his body was real; though changed.
One point here that seems to always get brushed aside is the fact that Jesus, appearing to his disciples subsequent to this resurrection, showed them his physical, glorified body:
*"Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”
But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”* (John 20:24-28)
How does one see and touch something that is pure spirit? The Baha’i have responded that we don’t know if Thomas actually touched Jesus’ hands and side. Are we to believe that if Thomas did attempt to touch Jesus that Jesus would then have responded “Just kidding, you can’t touch me I am a spirit”?
And the reason that this and other miracles are important:
“Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” (John 20:30-31)
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rinnie
Guest
But see you claim you accept Jesus as the second person of the Trinity. But you don’t seem to truly understand the Trinity. Not in the way the Church teaches.Dear friend Eddie,
This is totally incorrect, Baha’is ABSOLUTELY accept that Jesus was the Second Person in the Trinity. Can we please move on from this point because we have spent 2000 posts trying to explain why we do agree on this
This is exactly the sorts of things that the Jews said about Jesus
Agreed the Jews denied Jesus. There is no doubt about this. But because someone denies truth does not change the outcome. Truth is still truth.
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rinnie
Guest
See this is our whole problem. You say you teach Jesus as the second person in the Trinity. That means you would teach that Jesus is indeed God the Son.
Now how can you teach Jesus in the Trinity as it is taught by the Church and say you see no difference.
That is saying Baha’ is God the Son. If you are teaching the true Trinity.
And that would be a false statement to make.
The Trinity was taught to us by Christ. Do we truly understand it completely. Nope! It is a mystery of our faith.
But we know there is ONE GOD in 3 separate persons. What does that mean? It means to put it bluntly if I want to pray to Jesus I am also praying to the Holy Spirit and the Father. They are ONE GOD.
Can I pray to God in the Spirit, yes. in the word made flesh the Son, yes, or can I pray to God as the Father. Yes. All prayers go to the same place and same God.
Jesus said before Abraham I AM! That means Jesus always existed, simply because GOD always existed.
In order for Bahai’ to be in the same light as Jesus you must say Baha’i is indeed GOD THE ALMIGHTY creator of heaven and earth. Can you say that?
If not do you see how they cannot be compared in the same light?
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rinnie
Guest
Another problem you claim Baha’i was sinless. How?
Did he have a human mother and father? If so this is a false statement.
Jesus had a human Mother. She was saved from original sin at the MOMENT of her conception by God.
So she can be called sinless.
We are all born into original sin at the moment of our conception. We are saved from Original sin in Baptism.
Do you guys have baptism? Why if you do? ANd if you do not why?
So it is IMPOSSIBLE for Baha’i to be conceived without original sin, unless you can prove his Mother and Father were saved from it also.
Could you show me that teaching?
If I am not mistaken you guys deny sin at all. Or am I wrong.
I have been so busy the last few weeks and haven’t got to read everything. So sorry if that was answered.
Did he have a human mother and father? If so this is a false statement.
Jesus had a human Mother. She was saved from original sin at the MOMENT of her conception by God.
So she can be called sinless.
We are all born into original sin at the moment of our conception. We are saved from Original sin in Baptism.
Do you guys have baptism? Why if you do? ANd if you do not why?
So it is IMPOSSIBLE for Baha’i to be conceived without original sin, unless you can prove his Mother and Father were saved from it also.
Could you show me that teaching?
If I am not mistaken you guys deny sin at all. Or am I wrong.
I have been so busy the last few weeks and haven’t got to read everything. So sorry if that was answered.
E
eddie_too
Guest
like i said, if you think never experiencing eternal love and peace is a good thing, you might as well be a bahai.
if you think never again experiencing sight, hearing, smelling, feeling and tasting is a good thing and spending eternity as a bodiless human soul, than you might as well be a bahai.
but if you think spending eternity perfectly united with the eternal and unchanging God is heaven, than bahai is the last thing you want to believe.
if you think spending eternity with a perfect human body is heaven, than bahai is the last thing you want to believe
if you think never again experiencing sight, hearing, smelling, feeling and tasting is a good thing and spending eternity as a bodiless human soul, than you might as well be a bahai.
but if you think spending eternity perfectly united with the eternal and unchanging God is heaven, than bahai is the last thing you want to believe.
if you think spending eternity with a perfect human body is heaven, than bahai is the last thing you want to believe
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