BAHA'I thread III - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

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Rinnie wrote:

What concrete can you tell me about your great leader. No just words.

My comment:

What concrete indeed…

Actually we’ll have to use words here to communicate …

*Those who do most good use fewest words concerning their actions.

The children of God do the works without boasting, obeying His laws.*

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 16

*When the prophets of God appear upon this earth, their validity is established by means of certain proofs.

One of the proofs is through the fulfillment of former prophecies,

the second proofs are their creative words and phrases which salute the hearts of humanity,

the third are their deeds

and the fourth are their teachings.
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 42

A detailed account of the life of Baha’u’llah is online at

peyman.info/cl/index.html?home=H

🙂
Actually those are the words of Jesus Christ. The scripture is full of it.

2 Cor 10:12-18
Eph 2:8-9
John 5:30
Romans18:18
Romans2:16

My favorite one is he told us when you fast wash your face and fast in silence, Do not stand on the corners with long faces like the hyocrites do.

Can you show me ONE teaching that you were given that was not copied from the word of God? Everything you seem to quote came from what Jesus taught us.

How about the greatest commandment. Love one another as I have loved you.

Or whatsoever you do to the least of my brothers that you do unto me.

You are giving great words and quotes but nothing that Christ has not already taught.

What has your great leader taught that has not already came from Christ?
 
Floated? LOL

what on earth made you think that He floated?

Again, I would suggest you look at what the Bahai Faith says about science and religion. Any thing that goes against the established laws of current empirical science is considered superstition.

Baha’i Faith is not a superstitious Faith.

There is more than likely a very scientific explanation, and one day, who knows it may well find its way into the Discovery Channel.

You want real miracles, the rapidity of Revelation and the way just one paragraph, one sentence, one Word, can change a gnat into an eagle.

That’s true science…

LOL, loved your analogy above, it honestly made me laugh out loud, not in a patronizing way, I assure you, but just the thought of bloated being like heaven! 👍
Jesus has surpassed science.

The miracles of Christ even today working in our life has surpassed even the great minds. I am going to PM you one that happened to me.😃
 
rinnie,

one thing bahaullah taught that Jesus did not teach is that human souls never reach perfection.

another is the idea that the human community can perfect itself in this world. Jesus did not teach that. Jesus said that He had overcome this world. He also said that the ways of the world are not God’s ways.

i think if we studied the bahai religion closely we would find other teachings from bahaullah that contradict what Jesus taught meaning that there is much that bahaullah taught that Jesus did not. it is just that what bahaullah taught that Jesus did not teach contradicts much of what Jesus DID teach.
 
When will God put world and all the evils contained therein to rights?
*As the divine bounties are endless, so human perfections are endless.
  • (Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 230)
Also, bahai have justified their prophet’s marraige history by saying the revelation hadn’t come yet. Is not Mirza Hussain an eternal entity? Why did anything need to be revealed to him?
The question is not “when the revelation comes” but when a new form of the religious law comes into force, for the believers. Not all of the Bahai laws are in force for Bahais today; some are in force in Islamic countries but not in the West, and so on. The Universal House of Justice decides when a suspended aspect of Bahai law is to come into force and be practiced by the Bahais.

However I am not aware of anything in the Bahai Writings that says that this applies to the Author of those laws, and I think it cannot. But here I am distinguishing between those acts that are morally wrong in any religion (or in atheism), and those that breach the religious law of a specific community. The latter – which includes marriage laws, laws of diet and dress and the like – are made by the founder and he is Master of them, not bound by them. Polygamy cannot be considered a universal moral wrong, as it does not in itself cause suffering to anyone, many of the prophets of Israel have practiced it, and it is not condemned in the Old or New Testaments (although 1 Timothy says that a Bishop should be faithful to one wife, that rule is specific to Bishops). So I reason that the Bahai law on polygamy (a complex issue) did not bind Baha’u’llah anyway. I think that we (Bahais) have been given these laws as a badge of discipleship, and the Master does not have to wear it. In Islamic thinking this is quite specific: Muhammad was not bound by the Shariah on issues such as the number of wives, the need to give the bride a dowry, consummation being required for validity and so on.
 
For proper historical verification of an extraordinary event, it requires more than that.
Servant, please answer this question. Please tell us of extraordinary events attributed to Baha’u’llah that have been historically verified? Just one or two will do.

Thank you.
 
rinnie,

one thing bahaullah taught that Jesus did not teach is that human souls never reach perfection.

another is the idea that the human community can perfect itself in this world. Jesus did not teach that. Jesus said that He had overcome this world. He also said that the ways of the world are not God’s ways.

i think if we studied the bahai religion closely we would find other teachings from bahaullah that contradict what Jesus taught meaning that there is much that bahaullah taught that Jesus did not. it is just that what bahaullah taught that Jesus did not teach contradicts much of what Jesus DID teach.
What my point is the truth that they do have came from Christ. They say it came from Baha’ but it came from God first.

To explain this easier is this. What truth have they spoken that Christ hasn"t already given us.

When the word became flesh and Christ taught us it NEVER contradicted the word of God.

Like Christ taught us ONE GOD in 3 persons. That does not contradict the word of God. Just a teaching of God in the 3 persons we did not understand in the O.T.

As you stated they can give a contradiction of the truth, Christ himself in his words has already contradicted their truth in his Divine wisdom. Another miracle if you may, No matter who comes in this world and tried to fool us he already warned us how they would and gave us scripture to find the truth.

But I need a truth from them not contradicted by scripture that Christ has not revealed. Because Christ said there is pretty much no more to know. He told us all until he comes again in glory.

I am asking them for a truth that does NOT contradict scripture that Christ maybe forgot:Dto tell us.
 
lochias
i am almost 100% certain that none of those bahai commenting here, nor any other bahai are familiar with all of those writings. most likely, they are not even familiar with most of the earliest christian writer such as ignatius of antioch, polycarp of smyrna, irenaeus of lyon, etc. then throw in st. jerome, st. augustine and you begin to get a picture of how ignorant most people are of the understandings of our catholic faith.

that makes it incumbent upon us to live our lives in a manner that raises curiosity in the unbelivers. remember that historical reference, “look at those christians, see how they love one another”?
This is all true Eddie Too.

As this thread is for Catholics to ask questions about the Bahai Faith, our ignorance about Catholicism is not a big problem, except where lack of familiarity with Catholicism leads the Bahai participants to misunderstand a question. You can help by making allowances for our ignorance when you frame your question about Bahai.

The example of those Christians who do consistently exhibit love and charity on this forum is very much appreciated
 
What my point is the truth that they do have came from Christ. They say it came from Baha’ but it came from God first.

To explain this easier is this. What truth have they spoken that Christ hasn"t already given us.

When the word became flesh and Christ taught us it NEVER contradicted the word of God.

Like Christ taught us ONE GOD in 3 persons. That does not contradict the word of God. Just a teaching of God in the 3 persons we did not understand in the O.T.

As you stated they can give a contradiction of the truth, Christ himself in his words has already contradicted their truth in his Divine wisdom. Another miracle if you may, No matter who comes in this world and tried to fool us he already warned us how they would and gave us scripture to find the truth.

But I need a truth from them not contradicted by scripture that Christ has not revealed. Because Christ said there is pretty much no more to know. He told us all until he comes again in glory.

I am asking them for a truth that does NOT contradict scripture that Christ maybe forgot:Dto tell us.
If I could just see ONE thing. 🍿:hmmm:
 
Egg-zactly.

So there is no evidence, whatsoever, that your holy prophets did anything miraculous.

And therefore no evidence, whatosever, that your holy prophets are divine.

The very scientific explanations will only serve to show this: your holy prophets are men who write some very nice things.

I happened to read some things by Thomas Merton the other day. His writings are interesting spiritually.

I might put your holy prophets on the same page as Thomas Merton. Interesting spiritual teachings, but where they diverge from the Word of God is where we say, “Nope, not so much.”

And Thomas Merton, while being an astute spiritual thinker, like your holy prophets, is definitely NOT part of the Godhead.
Servant, please answer this question. Please tell us of extraordinary events attributed to Baha’u’llah that have been historically verified? Just one or two will do.

Thank you.
It is very late here in Australia, but I will briefly respond with a couple of examples:
(You can find several other examples in several books such as Nabils Narrative and The Revelation of Baha’u’llah)

Baha’u’llah performed many miracles! Some readers will discount them with a wave-of-a-hand, saying: ‘They are either fables, made-up stories, or done by the power of the Devil!’

That is what the Pharisees said Jesus did His miracles by; by the power of “Be’elzebub”: the “Prince of the Devils” (Mark 3:22).

When the Pharisees said to Jesus “Show us a miracle and we will believe!” He did none! However, when the common-people saw Him do miracles they went to the Pharisees and told them what they had seen with their own eyes. The Pharisss dismissed it as the ‘work of Satan’.

The Bab did many miracles! One that comes to mind is when He was at a banquet of a man named Ali Muhammad; an old man with an old barren wife. They had prayed for decades for children, but none ever came. They began to feal that God was not answering prayers; that He had abandomed them. When they heard of The Bab, that He declared He was the promised Imam Mahdi (“Rightly-Guided One”) they believed. They invited Him to their home for a banquet. As was custom, the men and women ate at separate tables; in separate rooms. Mirza Ali Muhammad told The Bab that his wife was barren, and that they had prayed to God for children but never had any. The Bab stopped eating, gave His plate to Mirza Ali Muhammad, and said, “Have her eat from My dish!” Mirza Ali Muhammad was startled, but took the plate to his wife and told her to eat from it (this was considered “unclean” but his wife obeyed). Soon she was pregnant with their first child.

The Bab did many more miracles, which are related in The Dawn Breakers and in New History of The Bab.

Baha’u’llah performed many supernatural acts. While in Iran there was a Shi’a Mulla (clergyman) named Muhammad Ali Nabi-i-Qa’in. He stayed with Baha’u’llah for a time, and “related the great miracles which he had, with his own eyes, see Baha’u’llah perform.” (Memorials of the Faithful, p.50)

Baha’u’llah raised a man from the dead. The man was Mirza Ja’far-i-Yazdi, known as one of the most loving and spiritual men among the Baha’is of Akka. While at that prison city he became very ill. Akka was a prison city and a fortress. It was extremely dirty and crowded. Sanitation and fresh running water was practically unknown in that city. The Muslims used to say, “A bird once flew over Akka, and it dropped dead!”

Mirza Ja’far got very sick, and a physician was summoned. Finally, Mirza Ja’fa stopped breathing. His heart stopped. He became cold. The physician pronounced him dead, and left. A Baha’i named Mirza Aqa Jan ran to the quarters of Baha’u’llah, in tears, saying that Mirza Ja’far was dead. Baha’u’llah replied:

“Go: chant the prayer of Ya Shari–O Thou, Healer–and Mirza Ja’fa will come alive.” (Memorials of the Faithful, p.157)
Mirza Aqa Jan went back to the apartment where the body of Mirza Ja’far lay, and he chanted a prayer to God named “O My Healer” and then Mirza Ja’far started to breath, and move, then he miraculously got up and began speaking and walking around! (ibid.).
'Abdu’l-Baha, the Successor, Secretary, and Eldest Son of Baha’u’llah, wrote:

“…If I wish to mention the supernatural acts of Baha’u’llah, they are numerous; they are acknowledged in the Orient even by some non-baha’is.” (Some Answered Questions 10:6)

“So also foreign peoples, and other sects who were not believers, attributed many wonderful things to Baha’u’llah. Some believed He was a saint, and some wrote treatises about Him. One of them, Siyyid Davudi, a Sunnite savant of Baghdad, wrote a short treatise in which he related certain supernatural acts of Baha’u’llah. Even now, in all parts of the East, there are some people who, though they do not believe in His Manifestation, nevertheless believe Him to be a saint and relate miracles attributed to Him.” (Some Answered Questions 9:19)
 
This is all true Eddie Too.

As this thread is for Catholics to ask questions about the Bahai Faith, our ignorance about Catholicism is not a big problem, except where lack of familiarity with Catholicism leads the Bahai participants to misunderstand a question.
My skepticism comes from the way all of the Bahai in this thread behave after they are corrected in their misunderstandings. You can only claim to be ignorant of what Catholics believe for so long in this environment, before we all start doing this:

http://www.reactionface.info/sites/default/files/imagecache/Node_Page/images/1312291457832.jpg

My problem isn’t that you don’t believe the Catholic Faith…no-one can make you do that…it’s that you keep trying to tell us what WE believe, and also that you keep white-washing or ignoring the glaringly obvious holes in what you’re trying to tell us about the Bahai faith. We’re not idiots, and the misdirection gets super-tedious after a while.
 
It is very late here in Australia, but I will briefly respond with a couple of examples:
(You can find several other examples in several books such as Nabils Narrative and The Revelation of Baha’u’llah)

Baha’u’llah performed many miracles! Some readers will discount them with a wave-of-a-hand, saying: ‘They are either fables, made-up stories, or done by the power of the Devil!’

That is what the Pharisees said Jesus did His miracles by; by the power of “Be’elzebub”: the “Prince of the Devils” (Mark 3:22).

When the Pharisees said to Jesus “Show us a miracle and we will believe!” He did none! However, when the common-people saw Him do miracles they went to the Pharisees and told them what they had seen with their own eyes. The Pharisss dismissed it as the ‘work of Satan’.

The Bab did many miracles! One that comes to mind is when He was at a banquet of a man named Ali Muhammad; an old man with an old barren wife. They had prayed for decades for children, but none ever came. They began to feal that God was not answering prayers; that He had abandomed them. When they heard of The Bab, that He declared He was the promised Imam Mahdi (“Rightly-Guided One”) they believed. They invited Him to their home for a banquet. As was custom, the men and women ate at separate tables; in separate rooms. Mirza Ali Muhammad told The Bab that his wife was barren, and that they had prayed to God for children but never had any. The Bab stopped eating, gave His plate to Mirza Ali Muhammad, and said, “Have her eat from My dish!” Mirza Ali Muhammad was startled, but took the plate to his wife and told her to eat from it (this was considered “unclean” but his wife obeyed). Soon she was pregnant with their first child.

The Bab did many more miracles, which are related in The Dawn Breakers and in New History of The Bab.

Baha’u’llah performed many supernatural acts. While in Iran there was a Shi’a Mulla (clergyman) named Muhammad Ali Nabi-i-Qa’in. He stayed with Baha’u’llah for a time, and “related the great miracles which he had, with his own eyes, see Baha’u’llah perform.” (Memorials of the Faithful, p.50)

Baha’u’llah raised a man from the dead. The man was Mirza Ja’far-i-Yazdi, known as one of the most loving and spiritual men among the Baha’is of Akka. While at that prison city he became very ill. Akka was a prison city and a fortress. It was extremely dirty and crowded. Sanitation and fresh running water was practically unknown in that city. The Muslims used to say, “A bird once flew over Akka, and it dropped dead!”

Mirza Ja’far got very sick, and a physician was summoned. Finally, Mirza Ja’fa stopped breathing. His heart stopped. He became cold. The physician pronounced him dead, and left. A Baha’i named Mirza Aqa Jan ran to the quarters of Baha’u’llah, in tears, saying that Mirza Ja’far was dead. Baha’u’llah replied:

“Go: chant the prayer of Ya Shari–O Thou, Healer–and Mirza Ja’fa will come alive.” (Memorials of the Faithful, p.157)
Mirza Aqa Jan went back to the apartment where the body of Mirza Ja’far lay, and he chanted a prayer to God named “O My Healer” and then Mirza Ja’far started to breath, and move, then he miraculously got up and began speaking and walking around! (ibid.).
'Abdu’l-Baha, the Successor, Secretary, and Eldest Son of Baha’u’llah, wrote:

“…If I wish to mention the supernatural acts of Baha’u’llah, they are numerous; they are acknowledged in the Orient even by some non-baha’is.” (Some Answered Questions 10:6)

“So also foreign peoples, and other sects who were not believers, attributed many wonderful things to Baha’u’llah. Some believed He was a saint, and some wrote treatises about Him. One of them, Siyyid Davudi, a Sunnite savant of Baghdad, wrote a short treatise in which he related certain supernatural acts of Baha’u’llah. Even now, in all parts of the East, there are some people who, though they do not believe in His Manifestation, nevertheless believe Him to be a saint and relate miracles attributed to Him.” (Some Answered Questions 9:19)
No offense but I have 2 people today who could stand up in a court of law or take a lie detector test etc to testify on this truth.

My Sister and a male customer of mine could not have Children. They both tried and tried for several years and were very upset. Both were thinking of getting the shots etc.

I told them both instead of spending all that money and putting all that stress on yourself, you have been trying for years anyway, why not try my way.

They agreed.

I said you say you do truly believe in God right? They both said yes. I said then why not take off the year, love one another, Pray. Not for a Child but for God to help you accept what is meant to be, rely on his grace and mercy trust him and see what happens. Then if not in year do what you think.

They both did it, truly discussed it with oneanother and made the decision to let God do his will this time.

In 2 months they were both pregnant.🤷 I take NO credit for this. I know who gets the Credit and its the Good Lord.
 
No offense but I have 2 people today who could stand up in a court of law or take a lie detector test etc to testify on this truth.

My Sister and a male customer of mine could not have Children. They both tried and tried for several years and were very upset. Both were thinking of getting the shots etc.

I told them both instead of spending all that money and putting all that stress on yourself, you have been trying for years anyway, why not try my way.

They agreed.

I said you say you do truly believe in God right? They both said yes. I said then why not take off the year, love one another, Pray. Not for a Child but for God to help you accept what is meant to be, rely on his grace and mercy trust him and see what happens. Then if not in year do what you think.

They both did it, truly discussed it with oneanother and made the decision to let God do his will this time.

In 2 months they were both pregnant.🤷 I take NO credit for this. I know who gets the Credit and its the Good Lord.
Rinnie, I’ve responded to your beautiful PM

GOD BLESS YOU SWEET ANGEL 🙂

G’night all!!
 
It is very late here in Australia, but I will briefly respond with a couple of examples:
(You can find several other examples in several books such as Nabils Narrative and The Revelation of Baha’u’llah)

Baha’u’llah performed many miracles! Some readers will discount them with a wave-of-a-hand, saying: ‘They are either fables, made-up stories, or done by the power of the Devil!’

That is what the Pharisees said Jesus did His miracles by; by the power of “Be’elzebub”: the “Prince of the Devils” (Mark 3:22).
And it is also what you do when you deny the bodily resurrection of Jesus, the multiplication of the loaves and fishes, the numerous miraculous healings, etc…

I asked you to give historical verification of a great event of Baha’u’llah; the same test that you require of Jesus’ miracles as stated in the Christian Scriptures. Unless I have missed something, you have provided nothing but stories from the Baha’i community and Baha’i sources. Where is the outside, independent verification that you require from Christians?
 
You know I am glad to defer to our Catholic friends here whatever it is they’d like to post about Catholicism…

I don’t think any of us Baha’is posting here and any one of them is encouraged to dispute this …We don’t feel it is necessary to attack the church in any way…

All we can do here is share our experience as Baha’is if anyone has questions.

We may differ with you in our views and perspectives about Jesus Christ but we should respect your beliefs nonetheless.

Acknowledging the above I hope and pray that our exchanges here can be more cordial and free from acrimony…

🙂
 
For proper historical verification of an extraordinary event, it requires more than that.
It should be easy enough for you to research what historical evidence exists regarding Jesus. Just Google:

Jesus extra biblical evidence

Then you can read all sorts of stuff about Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus and the Babylonian Talmud.
 
i think if we studied the bahai religion closely…

.
This key phrase is what stands out in your post, Eddie. For those of us who have studied the Baha’i religion closely, from every religious perspective on the planet, and in great detail, have arrived at the same conclusions, that Baha’u’llah is the Promised One of all religions.

One of His teachings is the elimination of superstition and the promotion of science and education for all members of society, including women, even giving women preference in education when funds are too short to educate all of your children, for they are the immediate educators of the next generation.

`Abdu’l-Bahá on Science and Religion:

Bahá’u’lláh has declared that religion must be in accord with science and reason. If it does not correspond with scientific principles and the processes of reason, it is superstition. For God has endowed us with faculties by which we may comprehend the realities of things, contemplate reality itself. If religion is opposed to reason and science, faith is impossible; and when faith and confidence in the divine religion are not manifest in the heart, there can be no spiritual attainment.

If religious beliefs and opinions are found contrary to the standards of science, they are mere superstitions and imaginations; for the antithesis of knowledge is ignorance, and the child of ignorance is superstition. Unquestionably there must be agreement between true religion and science. If a question be found contrary to reason, faith and belief in it are impossible, and there is no outcome but wavering and vacillation.
 
daler,

you wrote, “For those of us who have studied the Baha’i religion closely, from every religious perspective on the planet, and in great detail, have arrived at the same conclusions, that Baha’u’llah is the Promised One of all religions.” as though no one who has studied the bahai religion closely has ever concluded that it is nothing more than a self-absorbed man piggybacking on the Person of Jesus. that is an innately flawed conclusion.

on a different point, neither moses or abraham, whom the bahai tout as other manifestations, ever came up this manifestation nonsense in their lives and teachings.
 
also, daler,

how closely does a person need to study a man’s teachings when those teachings deny the salvation offered each of us by Jesus Christ before concluding that the man teaching that Jesus Christ is a mere man is wrong.

when the very first teachings of a mere man dismisses or demeans Jesus Christ, why would anyone want to learn more of that mere man’s teachings.
 
You know I am glad to defer to our Catholic friends here whatever it is they’d like to post about Catholicism…

I don’t think any of us Baha’is posting here and any one of them is encouraged to dispute this …We don’t feel it is necessary to attack the church in any way…

All we can do here is share our experience as Baha’is if anyone has questions.

We may differ with you in our views and perspectives about Jesus Christ but we should respect your beliefs nonetheless.

Acknowledging the above I hope and pray that our exchanges here can be more cordial and free from acrimony…

🙂
I totally agree with you. At times I am told:blush: I can come on a little strong. If I ever do I want to apologize immeditally for it.

Alot of times when we disagree and show Scripture or Tradition it seems to people it is an attack of some sort. But its not.

But I pray I never offend anyone and if I do please bring it to my attention.:cool:
 
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