BAHA'I thread III - feel free to ask of Baha'i any questions

[IgnatianPhilo]

It is a big jump from saying that monogamy was the ideal God had in mind, and noting the practical disadvantages of polygamy (I agree on both points), to saying that Abraham and other patriarchs grossly sinned. While polygamous marriage is less than ideal, there may nevertheless be situations in which it is the most ethical choice. One example is most of the marriages of Muhammad: he married widows and older women, and had children only by Khadijah and Maria. Baha’u’llah’s second wife, Fatemeh, was also a widow, and the Nuri family had obligations to her since Baha’u’llah’s father had arranged her first marriage, to a much older man who was an associate of Baha’u’llah’s father.

You asked “Does the practice immediately become wrong as soon as the revelation is revealed?” If we are speaking of practices such as forms of worship, family law, dietary laws and so on; these are not right or wrong. Each religious community has its own, and they are as I said before a badge of discipleship. I for example do not take communion, since I am a Bahai not a Christian. But I do not consider it wrong for a Christian to take communion; for them it is the right form. Christians do not pray at the wailing wall, but it is not wrong for Jews to do so.

In contrast, cruelty, deception, greed and cowardice are wrong. if we find a (claimed) Manifestation of God is cruel, deceptive or greedy, we know they are false. He who lies, serves the lord of lies.

You cannot justify Muhammad’s marriages by saying they needed contracts established between different peoples, it would have been sufficient if one of Muhammad’s relatives had decided to marry, nor was marrying Aisha at six (and having sex when she was 9) justified by any stretch. Muhammad’s life bares out that his marriages were not all motivated politically but many of them were for pleasure or because he desired it and he hypocritcally limited every other muslim’s to four, but apparently God’s apostle is higher than everyone else that he can marry his adopted son’s wife, a gross and evil thing to do.

Thats just my view on the marriages of Muhammad I suspect you consider them justified because you think God considers them okay. But how is it right for Christians to still take communion in your eyes? The eucharist is something gone and done away with in Muhammad and to do this seems to be a fundamentally wrong act even if it is done on a false understanding of the world. It still seems like the revelator is secondary to the revelation in bahai understanding, since the coming of the revelator does nothing except when he reveals how God wants to change things up.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

… Jesus had a human Mother. She was saved from original sin at the MOMENT of her conception by God.

So she can be called sinless.

… If I am not mistaken you guys deny sin at all. Or am I wrong.
.

Just as God can make Mary ‘sinless’ at the moment of her conception, Bahais believe that the Manifestations of God are created immaculate. The Arabic term is ma`sum (with a long u). It is sometimes translated as infallible, but this in the sense of not doing wrong, rather than the sense of never being wrong. Other translations are “free from sin” and “chaste.” It has the connotation of an authority to act in some sphere.

According to Bahai teachings, this quality comes in different grades. There is the freedom from sin which is part of the inherent nature of the person, as freedom from rust is inherent to gold. This is usually called by Bahais “Most Great Infallibility” and is unique to the founders of religion. In fact it is a circular definition: those who have it, found religions, as they change the religious law and develop the teachings of religion with authority. "he taught them as one having authority, . (Matthew 7:29)

Immaculacy / infallibility can also be conferred by God’s action, as we make iron free of rust by turning it into stainless steel. In neoplatonic language, the MG-Infallibility is infallibility in essence, while this is infallibility as an attribute. Being an attribute, it can be added, taken away or exist in different degrees. Shiah Muslims believe their Imams and Fatimeh had this conferred infallibility, Bahais believe that, and that in Bahai history, Abdu’l-Baha, the Guardian and the House of Justice have it. Abdu’l-Baha explains that God protects them from error for the sake of the faithful:

they are under the protection of God – that is to say, God preserves them from error. Thus many of the holy beings who were not dawning-points of the Most Great Infallibility, were yet kept and preserved from error under the shadow of the protection and guardianship of God, for they were the mediators of grace between God and men. If God did not protect them from error, their error would cause believing souls to fall into error, and thus the foundation of the Religion of God would be overturned, which would not be fitting nor worthy of God.
(Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 171)

Now, in Islamic belief, Mary also has this quality of immaculacy, and this is also Bahai belief. In an account of one of Abdu’l-Baha’s talks, he is reported as saying:

All Islam considers the Qur’án the Word of God. In this sacred Book there are explicit texts which are not traditional, stating that Christ was the Word of God, that He was the Spirit of God, that Jesus Christ came into this world through the quickening breaths of the Holy Spirit and that Mary, His mother, was holy and sanctified.
(Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 201)

It is evident that this quality is not a matter of the nature of one’s father and mother, since Adam and Eve were not born of the flesh but they sinned, while Mary mother of Jesus was born of the flesh but was immaculate.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Ignatian,
. My own understanding is that it takes some “real time” for the Message of any of the Manifestations of God to sink in, to be accepted, and the effect of the “teachings” then bares fruit. Hence, it is not accomplished in short order. It never has been. That would necessitate a cessation of free will, one of the inherent characteristics of being human.

Bahai don’t like doing this but when we look at history and if we just for the sake of the argument accept the bahai idea of nine or so manifestations and look at history we see how each manifestation fails to accomplish the one world government and utopian society that bahai want so badly. Abraham failed, Krishna failed, Jesus failed, Muhammad Failed and so far as I can tell your prophet has failed more than any of them because in this recent century death and destruction and crime are ever increasing with no signs of stopping. I would ask why do you think mankind is capable of saving itself when you have all of human history showing you otherwise? No one in this world cares about an obscure self proclaimed persian prophet. Thats not meant to offend but rather get the point accross that only the bahai who are very few in number even when compared to atheists and non believers are at the bottom of the barrel in terms of influence on the world. Your prophet hasn’t done anything, his coming hasn’t changed anything, mankind is just as sinful and greedy as it ever was.
. Rather, there is a gathering together and a separation taking place, as in the vision “For out of His Mouth goeth a two-edged sword”. Baha’u’llah says that as the sword is a dividing instrument, the Word of God also divides believer from non-believer. Not just at one moment, but historically, as civilization unfolds in response both to and from the Manifestation of God and the effects of His Word.

.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error. Each time that Most Mighty Instrument hath come, and that Light shone forth from the Ancient Dayspring, He was withheld by ignorant physicians who, even as clouds, interposed themselves between Him and the world. It failed, therefore, to recover, and its sickness hath persisted until this day. They indeed were powerless to protect it, or to effect a cure, whilst He Who hath been the Manifestation of Power amongst men was withheld from achieving His purpose, by reason of what the hands of the ignorant physicians have wrought.”

Summons of the Lord of Hosts

. Even as the religion brought by Moses took centuries to unfold, as did the teachings of Christ to take root, and the Dispensation of Muhammad to occur, we are as yet in the beginning stages of the Baha’i Cycle. Already the nations have responded in the creation first of the League of Nations, which was clearly insufficient, then the United Nations, which was a major improvement credited with preventing or lessening the unchecked spread of numerous wars, facilitating levels of international communication and cooperation never previously seen in human history. We have in fact come a long way from the automatic triggers which created WWI and WWII. Even today, we see consultation on the misuse of poison gas in Syria, in all the headlines, rather than the widespread use as in WWI, or the atomic warfare of WWII as being unacceptable. Hence, signs of progress are apparent.

Again those prophets failed by all understanding, if Moses is to be judged on how the world was before the coming of Jesus, then he failed utterly because the roman empire was more powerful than the jews and idolatry existed in every part of the world or the non belief of Greek philosophers was present as well. There is a cycle in human history, of human failure and the ever inescapable presence of evil which you believe will be solved by some utoptian society living under the rule of your prophet.

So you say there is progress, but thats simply because you want to see it, you have to believe mankind is growing better but when you look at this time and in history you see the same thing. We might be more complex in thinking than those in the past but one thing is clear, mankind cannot save itself, God must save us. Hence I must believe bahai hold to the most rediculous of all beliefs, that humans can create heaven on earth for themselves.

 

[tonyfish58]

Following the bahai precepts would not end all evil. Death would still be around via abortion, via disease, via Murder and other matters. No matter all the laws you place on men, all the restrictions you will see evil still. Mankind cannot save itself, God must do it. But it seems bahai want to believe mankind can create a one universal government utopian society with them at the top and judging between all.

Yes - God must do it - We beleive God has done just that, as promised, but that is what we believe.

It is worth considering that this is how we can come to terms with this God’s creation. Opposites are part of creation and Gods Creation is Perfect. Take away the extremes and Free Will would be no more.

Free will has the ability to traverse the full spectrum, If there is no ability to sink to the depths of evil actions there is no ability to reach the peak of Purity, this is a gift if we can come to terms with it.

This world will always have extremes, but now we have the required instructions on how to live together in peace. There is at least another 500,000 years of this Earth in front of us, the next Prophet will be here after the expiration of a full 1000 years.

This world is here to purify our souls, we are here to be born again. We must come to terms with the flesh and be born into the Spirit so the second death does not overtake us.

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

I would ask why do you think mankind is capable of saving itself when you have all of human history showing you otherwise?

So you say there is progress, but thats simply because you want to see it, you have to believe mankind is growing better but when you look at this time and in history you see the same thing. We might be more complex in thinking than those in the past but one thing is clear, mankind cannot save itself, God must save us

This has been foretold

The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System – the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed. (Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 136)

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody”. (Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh LXI)

"We desire but the good of the world and the happiness of the nations; yet they deem Us a stirrer up of strife and sedition worthy of bondage and banishment… That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled – what harm is there in this?.. Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the ‘Most Great Peace’ shall come… Yet do We see your kings and rulers lavishing their treasures more freely on means for the destruction of the human race than on that which would conduce to the happiness of mankind… These strifes and this bloodshed and discord must cease, and all men be as one kindred and one family… Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind… (Baha’u’llah, The Proclamation of Baha’u’llah)

We can be all part of this, or we can choose not to be. I would rather be Optimistic and thing yes man can do this! God has said it will be so.

Regards Tony

 

[PRmerger]

. “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that
believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live”

Amen!

PR I would suggest that Jesus indeed resurrected the belief in God, which was the essence of the teachings of Moses, and that He gathered the fruit of the tree of the religion of Moses, which He planted. Jesus harvested the fruit of that sacred Tree, then, even as a seed is within the new fruit, planted the seed of His Faith, to be harvested by the next Manifestation of God.

Sure.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

I’d still like to see an answer to this from a Baha’i.
:coffeeread:

Personally, it’s not a discussion I would want to start on. Miracle stories are historically dubious, and in the Bahai teachings are downplayed, being valid only for those that witness them. I have a feeling Jesus got a bit irritated with the miracle-talk too:

*And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.
*Mark 8:12

 

[PRmerger]

I have a feeling Jesus got a bit irritated with the miracle-talk too:

I think you may be taking this verse out of context, friend.

It is not the sentiment that miracles ought to be “downplayed” that the sacred writer is professing . Rather, it is the demand for them that Jesus is irritated with.

It is always good to read a few verses before and a few verses after, before one uses the Scriptures.

The Demand for a Sign.

• The Pharisees came forward and began to argue with him,b seeking from him a sign from heaven to test him.

He sighed from the depth of his spirit and said, “Why does this generation seek a sign? Amen, I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation.”

Please note that this occurs textually right after the Lord performs…a miracle.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

Well, Abdu’l-Baha didn’t understand the Christian position very well at all then. No Christian believes that those who had died prior to Christ’s sacrifice were “held captive in hell in painful torment”. He also has no idea whatsoever of the Christian doctrine of original sin. After reading this, I would not trust a word the man said or wrote when commenting on Christianity and its doctrines. He obviously spent no time in learning about that which he comments.

Note that he does not say that Christ taught this, but that the generality of Christians have believed it. This is undoubtedly true, as we have Christians’ books, poems and dramas, and paintings, in which this event is visualized. Among these authors are some church fathers. See for example:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell#Early_Christian_teaching

The only question really is whether “hell” is a correct translation. Some authorities use the word Sheol, to distinguish the quasi-hell of the righteous before Christ’s resurrection from the real-hell of the unrighteous. The word Abdu’l-Baha uses here is jahim, which is “one of the names of hell” (according to Steingass’ Persian dictionary). Persian has many terms for hell, but most of them seem to be synonyms.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

The Catholic Church has been around now for about 2000 years and is not close to dying out; in fact its number increase each year. When do you think it should start dying out?

It is not a Bahai teaching that Christianity or any particular church is destined to die out. Civilizations do rise and fall, however.

On the future of Christianity, Shoghi Effendi writes:

***The indwelling Spirit of God ***which, in the Apostolic Age of the Church, animated its members, the pristine purity of its teachings, the primitive brilliancy of its light, **will, no doubt, be reborn and revived **as the inevitable consequences of this redefinition of its fundamental verities, and the clarification of its original purpose.
(The World Order of Baha’u’llah, 185)

and on the vigor of the work of the Spirit in individual Christians, Abdu’l-Baha says:

… the breezes of Christ are still blowing; His light is still shining; His melody is still resounding; His standard is still waving; His armies are still fighting; His heavenly voice is still sweetly melodious; His clouds are still showering gems; His lightning is still flashing; His reflection is still clear and brilliant; His splendor is still radiating and luminous; and it is the same with those souls who are under His protection and are shining with His light.
(Some Answered Questions, 152)

 

[MJJean]

What is the Baha’i view on animals and souls?

I know it sounds strange, but my husbands close friend (Jewish) recently married a Baha’i lady. Before they met and married, he had a rather spectacularly intelligent cat. The cat had cancer and no one knew. The Baha’i lady has an alter in their home with a picture of the prophet (sorry, I don’t know much about the faith or the prophets involved) and the cat started literally bowing and then sleeping under the picture. He was very interested in any devotions the human practiced. A few weeks after the behavior was noticed, the cat stopped eating, went into a decline, was taken to the vet, cancer was diagnosed, incurable and advanced, and the cat was humanely euthanized.

Anywho, we all loved this rather extraordinary cat and talked about him a lot after his passing. He was really quite amazing and I could tell stories of him for hours, lol. We wondered if maybe the cat sensed something spiritual and responded to it. Like maybe the cat had some sort of relationship with the divine. Wondering what the Baha’i thoughts on that theory would be. Like, could the cat have a soul according to the Baha’i faith? Could he have gone to heaven?

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

Following the bahai precepts would not end all evil. Death would still be around via abortion, via disease, via Murder and other matters. No matter all the laws you place on men, all the restrictions you will see evil still. Mankind cannot save itself, God must do it.

Abdu’l-Baha writes:

*… all the powers combined have not the power to establish universal peace, nor to withstand the overmastering dominion, at every time and season, of these endless wars. Erelong, however, shall the power of heaven, the dominion of the Holy Spirit, hoist on the high summits the banners of love and peace, … *
(Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 174)

and Shoghi Effendi states:

The principle of the Oneness of Mankind, as proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh, carries with it no more and no less than a solemn assertion that attainment to this final stage in this stupendous evolution is not only necessary but inevitable, that its realization is fast approaching, and that nothing short of a power that is born of God can succeed in establishing it.

(The World Order of Baha’u’llah, p. 43)

While the power of heaven is a necessary condition of peace, this does not exclude the participation of people of goodwill in the work of the Spirit.

But it seems bahai want to believe mankind can create a one universal government utopian society with them at the top and judging between all.

Bahais can sometimes be a little unhandy in how they express their optimism, and give people the wrong impression. In fact this is true of all religious communities, which is why, in Sociology of Religion, Research Methods we were taught to feed our first-impression reading of what was being said back to the speaker for confirmation.

The Bahai teaching about a federal world government and other aspects of a truly civilized world civilization does not in fact include the Bahais at the top of the pile judging others. Sorry if you were given that impression

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

You cannot justify Muhammad’s marriages by saying they needed contracts established between different peoples, it would have been sufficient if one of Muhammad’s relatives had decided to marry, nor was marrying Aisha at six (and having sex when she was 9) justified by any stretch. …

Don’t believe everything your read in the anti-islamic media. Anti-islamism is the new anti-semitism

While there is one hadith that says she was 9 when she went to live in Muhammad’s house, there is another hadith that shows Aisha remained with her parents until after puberty, and in fact that she was already past puberty when they left Mecca for Medina, where she married Muhammad. This hadith is also in Sahih Bukhari:

Narrated ‘Aisha: (the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my
parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day
passed but the Prophet visited us, both in the mornings and evenings.
My father Abu Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of
his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur’an in it.
The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at
him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not
help weeping while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the Quraish
pagans < this implies: *in Mecca*] became afraid of that (i.e. that their
children and women might be affected by the recitation of Quran)."

So her father became a Muslim when Aisha was at the age of puberty, and after some time they went to Medina, and some time after that, they married, and some time after that, she went to live in Muhammad’s house.

The stuff about them having sex when she was 9 is just random hate speech. She had no children. So how would anyone know whether they had sex at all? When the historical record is silent, anything can be filled into the gaps.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

It is not the sentiment that miracles ought to be “downplayed” that the sacred writer is professing . Rather, it is the demand for them that Jesus is irritated with.
…
Please note that this occurs textually right after the Lord performs…a miracle.

I think you’re right. There’s nothing wrong with miracles, it is the **demand **for miracles that reveals something about the demanders.

 

[SteveVH]

Steve,
. The following is probably not what you have specifically asked, concerning independent historical accounts of events during Baha’u’llah’s lifetime, but you may find it interesting.

. These are a few of the many headlines across the country during Abdul Baha’s 9 month visit to America in 1912.

centenary.bahai.us/news

Okay. Abdul Baha traveled to America and gave lectures. What am I suppose to surmise from this?

 

[eddie_too]

in addition to the fact that neither bab or bahaullah knew much about the teachings of Christ and His Church, there is the fact that bahaullah taught that the human soul remain in eternal flux after the death of its body; and, bahaullah taught that the human soul remain a bodiless spirit for eternity after separation from its body.

as we all know, anyone can teach anything. there is evidence of that throughout history, including recent history.

however, i do not want to be a soul in a state of flux for eternity. i want the eternal rest that comes only from perfect union with Perfect Being. also, i do not want to be simply an ethereal spirit for eternity. i like being a human being which is, quite obviously, a human soul connected to a human body.

my conclusion is that the teachings of Jesus not only make more sense than the teachings of bab or bahaullah; but also, Jesus’ teachings are far more appealing to me than the teachings of bab or bahaullah or mohammed or lao tse or buddha or confucius or any other non-divine, merely human, teachers.

it seems to me that bahai who wish to convert christians to their beliefs should lead with where those beliefs are diametrically opposed. at least, that practice would enhance the integrity of the bahai who think that bahaullah has more to offer human beings than does Jesus.

 

[eddie_too]

it is extreme insolence for a person to claim that the faith christians received from the Church is not the faith Jesus gave to the Church. this becomes the height of insolence especially when those making that claim have exposed their extreme ignorance about what the Church teaches.

it is one thing when a person who has spent their lifetime studying the teachings of the Church expresses an opinion that differs from the Churchs; but it is an entirely different thing for people who repeatedly disclose their ignorance of christian teaching to tell christians that they do not know what Jesus taught His apostles.

it is evident from this thread that bahai have zeal for the teachings of bahaullah.

it is also evident that these bahai know little about the Church’s teachings on sacred scripture and next to nothing about sacred tradition.

 

[Sen_McGlinn]

…We wondered if maybe the cat sensed something spiritual and responded to it. …

I will pass on the question of whether that cat went to heaven, although in more general terms I wonder whether it would be heaven without cats?

There is plenty of evidence that animals sometimes respond to the spiritual activity of humans. Saint Francis preaching to the birds, and the birds coming to listen, is an example. Bahais will be familiar with the story of the Bab and the prince’s unruly horse, which is told in The Dawnbreakers. However I have copied Balyuzi’s version below, because it contains something that most Bahais will not be aware of: how the only extant portraits of the Bab came to be painted, thanks in part to that unruly horse.

What follows may look like a “wall of text” - but think of it as a good story. I’ve cut some details

During his long sojourn in Adharbayjan, Varqa met an artist, … whom he guided into the … Faith of Bahá’u’lláh. And this artist, Aqa-Bala Bag, a native of Shishvan (a village on the banks of Lake Urumiyyih), had a remarkable tale to tell. He had in his possession a portrait of the Bab, the only one in existence, that he had done himself. It happened when the Bab was on His way to Tabriz for cross-examination by the Court of the Crown Prince. At Urumiyyih the governor, Malik-Qasim Mirza, … received the Bab with tokens of great respect but, at the same time, he worked out a *scheme to test Him. He owned a horse notorious for its unruliness, and on a Friday when the Bab was going to the public bath, Malik-Qasim Mirza ordered that charger to be brought for Him to ride. Those who were in the know watched with trepidation as the Bab came out to mount, but to the astonishment of all the horse proved exceedingly docile. The Bab mounted it with ease and rode to the public bath … When the Bab came out of the public bath, the horse was still there for Him to ride; and it behaved exactly as before. As the news of this extraordinary incident spread like a bonfire throughout Urumiyyih, the populace broke into the public bath and carried away every drop of water they could find there.

The people of Urumiyyih were certain that a miracle had come to pass in their midst and they flocked, day after day, to the governor’s residence to see the Bab. One of them was Aqa-Bala, the Chief Painter. He told Varqa, all those years later, that on his first visit, as soon as the Bab noticed him, He gathered His 'aba round Him, as if sitting for His portrait. The next day He did the same. It was then that Aqa-Bala Bag understood it to be a signal to him to draw His portrait. On his third visit, he went to the residence of Malik-Qasim Mirza with the equipment of his art. He made a rough sketch or two at the time, from which he later composed a full-scale portrait in black and white. Varqa wrote and informed Bahá’u’lláh of this tremendous discovery. And Bahá’u’lláh directed him to instruct Aqa-Bala Bag to make two copies of the portrait in water-colour, one to be dispatched to the Holy Land, and one for Varqa himself to keep. The copy sent to the Holy Land is now preserved in the International Bahá’í Archives on Mount Carmel, but the one which belonged to Varqa was amongst his possessions which were looted when he was arrested outside Zanjan. The original portrait, in black and white, was found long after by Siyyid Asadu’llah-i-Qumi, who took it with him to the Holy Land and presented it to 'Abdu’l-Bahá.
(H. M. Balyuzi, Eminent Baha’is in the Time of Baha’u’llah, p. 86)

 

[arthra]

What is the Baha’i view on animals and souls?

I know it sounds strange, but my husbands close friend (Jewish) recently married a Baha’i lady. Before they met and married, he had a rather spectacularly intelligent cat. The cat had cancer and no one knew. The Baha’i lady has an alter in their home with a picture of the prophet (sorry, I don’t know much about the faith or the prophets involved) and the cat started literally bowing and then sleeping under the picture. He was very interested in any devotions the human practiced. A few weeks after the behavior was noticed, the cat stopped eating, went into a decline, was taken to the vet, cancer was diagnosed, incurable and advanced, and the cat was humanely euthanized.

Anywho, we all loved this rather extraordinary cat and talked about him a lot after his passing. He was really quite amazing and I could tell stories of him for hours, lol. We wondered if maybe the cat sensed something spiritual and responded to it. Like maybe the cat had some sort of relationship with the divine. Wondering what the Baha’i thoughts on that theory would be. Like, could the cat have a soul according to the Baha’i faith? Could he have gone to heaven?

MJ that’s a wonderful story and thanks for sharing it here!

I had a few comments to make… and then I’ll see if I can respond to your question!

You wrote above “The Baha’i lady has an alter in their home with a picture of the prophet (sorry, I don’t know much about the faith or the prophets involved)…” Of course I don’t know this Baha’i lady but generally Baha’is don’t have altars in their homes…that is we don’t have say a place where rituals are conducted or such… She likely had a table or place with a nice cloth over over it…The picture she had was likely of Abdul-Baha… Baha’is will have photos of Abdul-Baha to remind them of His example to us but the photos are not venerated or a focus of worship or part of any rites…

There are pictures of the Bab and Baha’u’llah and they certainly are respected but normally only seen when on pilgrimage to the Holy Land or on rare special occasions…even so the pictures themselves are not venerated or worshipped.

As to the “soul” of the cat… by the way I have a cat that always joins in when we have devotionals and prayers and a dog that loves to cuddle with me while I’m reciting obligatory prayers and of course we dote on our pets.

Abdul-Baha is recorded to have said that

The animal spirit is the power of all the senses, which is realized from the composition and mingling of elements; when this composition decomposes, the power also perishes and becomes annihilated.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 208

Of the rational soul of a human being

The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names – the human spirit and the rational soul – designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings. But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 208

Baha’is don’t believe in reincarnation…that say the soul of the cat can be reborn in a higher life form or such.

We do believe that the soul continues after death…

*The progress of man’s spirit in the divine world, after the severance of its connection with the body of dust, is through the bounty and grace of the Lord alone, or through the intercession and the sincere prayers of other human souls, or through the charities and important good works which are performed in its name.
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 240

and

These explanations show that man is immortal and lives eternally. For those who believe in God, who have love of God, and faith, life is excellent – that is, it is eternal; but to those souls who are veiled from God, although they have life, it is dark, and in comparison with the life of believers it is nonexistence.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 241

 

[MJJean]

MJ that’s a wonderful story and thanks for sharing it here!

I had a few comments to make… and then I’ll see if I can respond to your question!

You wrote above “The Baha’i lady has an alter in their home with a picture of the prophet (sorry, I don’t know much about the faith or the prophets involved)…” Of course I don’t know this Baha’i lady but generally Baha’is don’t have altars in their homes…that is we don’t have say a place where rituals are conducted or such… She likely had a table or place with a nice cloth over over it…The picture she had was likely of Abdul-Baha… Baha’is will have photos of Abdul-Baha to remind them of His example to us but the photos are not venerated or a focus of worship or part of any rites…

There are pictures of the Bab and Baha’u’llah and they certainly are respected but normally only seen when on pilgrimage to the Holy Land or on rare special occasions…even so the pictures themselves are not venerated or worshipped.

As to the “soul” of the cat… by the way I have a cat that always joins in when we have devotionals and prayers and a dog that loves to cuddle with me while I’m reciting obligatory prayers and of course we dote on our pets.

Abdul-Baha is recorded to have said that

The animal spirit is the power of all the senses, which is realized from the composition and mingling of elements; when this composition decomposes, the power also perishes and becomes annihilated.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 208

Of the rational soul of a human being

The human spirit which distinguishes man from the animal is the rational soul, and these two names – the human spirit and the rational soul – designate one thing. This spirit, which in the terminology of the philosophers is the rational soul, embraces all beings, and as far as human ability permits discovers the realities of things and becomes cognizant of their peculiarities and effects, and of the qualities and properties of beings. But the human spirit, unless assisted by the spirit of faith, does not become acquainted with the divine secrets and the heavenly realities. It is like a mirror which, although clear, polished and brilliant, is still in need of light. Until a ray of the sun reflects upon it, it cannot discover the heavenly secrets.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 208

Baha’is don’t believe in reincarnation…that say the soul of the cat can be reborn in a higher life form or such.

We do believe that the soul continues after death…

*The progress of man’s spirit in the divine world, after the severance of its connection with the body of dust, is through the bounty and grace of the Lord alone, or through the intercession and the sincere prayers of other human souls, or through the charities and important good works which are performed in its name.
*
~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 240

and

These explanations show that man is immortal and lives eternally. For those who believe in God, who have love of God, and faith, life is excellent – that is, it is eternal; but to those souls who are veiled from God, although they have life, it is dark, and in comparison with the life of believers it is nonexistence.

~ Abdu’l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 241

The friend and his wife live on the East Coast and we don’t get to see them as much as we’d like. He has been a friend of my husbands since childhood and moved east for work. After his move out of state, he met and began a relationship with the Baha’i lady. I’d never heard of the religion before and have only had time to chat a few times with our friend. He did his best to explain the faith, but a secular Jew explaining Baha’i is …well…not the best way to learn. And, as much as we adored his wife when they came to stay with us while visiting the state to get his parents to sign permission for them to marry in the Baha’i faith ( his mothers head about exploded, but they did eventually sign), I didn’t have a lot of time to talk with her about her faith as we were all so busy.

As I have never had the pleasure of visiting friend and wife in their home I do not know the set up. I do clearly remember friend saying wife had a picture of the prophet on their living room wall and I know he mentioned a covered table beneath it where she keeps some things she uses in her spiritual practices. Maybe meditation aids? Candles? Prayer or other holy book?

Basically, your answer is the same as most Christians would answer. Not a whole lot of belief in animal souls out there. Sad, really, that we are given these creatures to share our lives and will probably not reunite with them in the afterlife.

Thank you and Sen for taking the time to answer!