I disagree. Not only does history tell us that the church became corrupt, there are many incidents in scripture where the church is rebuked for its corruption, both doctrinal and political.
IT is not wise to believe everything that “history” teaches, especially when it contradicts the Word of God.
the Church is never rebuked in scriptire, but only the members thereof. The church cannot become corrupt, but men can become docrtinally and politically corrupt.
The failure to distinguish the Holy Bride of Christ from the fallible persons who are joined to her is, in my opinion, one of the greatest errors of the reformation.
I agree. And the Reformation was a large part of God’s plan to protect the integrity of the church.
It is too bad that this concept is not consistent with the teaching of the Apostles. The Apostles taught that God, by HIs spirit, would protect the Church from error, not men who departed from the authority that Jesus appointed.
“Legitimate wrongs and practices”? I thought you just said that the church cannot do this. Which is it?
It is men, who commit wrongs, and practice error.
First of all, Luther may have had pride, but I don’t believe that he ever demanded that people kiss his ring or defer to him as God’s representative on Earth.
Neither does the Pope. It is a sign of courtesy and obedience, but is not “demanded”. What must be deferred to is the authority appointed by Christ. He told the Apostles “he who hears you, hears me”. This is Jeuss making them His representatives on earth.
Second, Lutheranism was not called Lutheranism by Luther.
I agree. I think Luther did not intend to create the harvest of separation that his seeds planted.
It’s not malarkey at all. There is a man in that little booth to whom you must confess.
Well, perhaps you are somewhat behind on your understanding of Catholic practice. Many don’t use a “booth” anymore.
However, it is not “must confess” but are graced to confess. It is a blessed gift from Jesus that we have this opportunity. He has not body now on earth but ours. It is through the mouth of the priest that we can hear audibly His words “you are forgiven, go in peace”.
Protestantism revolves around the Church
Not only that, but a deficient conception of what Church is. However, Catholicsim revolves around Jesus Himself, and His notion of Church, which has not been made a part of the Reformation.
My home is in Christ, not in any religious organization. While Christ gave the church to be a teacher (although I do not believe it is your church), He also gave the church His word to guide it in all matters doctrinal and practical.
Well, at least we agree on something!
Which part of this passage do you believe says that we can lose our salvation?
Since Catholic teaching is based upon the Apostles, then it is not necessary for us to find any doctrine in a particular passage.
We also do not build doctrine on single passages or handfuls of passages. We look at all the scriptures together.
Yes, I have heard of people who have left the Catholic church because of the rampant preist sex abuse and because of that institution’s unwillingness to do anything about it.
If a person needs an excuse, one is sure to find one. This is like the rest of the Apostles leaving Jesus because of the Jews that did not believe His words about His Body and Blood.
Because it’s foolish to tell somebody that they’re wrong when you don’t know what you’re talking about.
All protestants have departed from Apostolic Teaching to one extent or another. What defines all Protestants is rebellion against Catholicism.
I agree, but we’re not talking about Christianity in general, we’re talking about one organization within Christianity.
This is part of the thinking error that arises from the reformation. Jesus only founded ONE CHURCH, and has only ONE BODY!
Simply put, infused righteousness means that God gives you a measure of righteousness that you either keep or lose, depending on your actions.
Not entirely. It is God who is able to keep us until the day of redemption. All one need do is cooperate with that grace that makes us righteous.
Imputed righteousness means that God knows that **we are not righteous **and considers us righteous,
This is the part that we consider not only non-biblical (man made) but non-Aposotlic in origin.
