Barack Obama's group therapy

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jeffrey
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
meltzerboy said:
What you seem to be saying is that scientists who don’t agree with your viewpoint, based on your faith, are arbitrary, philosophical, agenda-driven, and unscientific. However, those who do agree with your moral and religious viewpoint are scientific. Your frame of reference is your own religious perspective, and you are unwilling or unable to even consider other scientific or religious perspectives. And that’s fine, but don’t resort to scientific explanations then. Similar to religion and philosophy, science is not uniform in its beliefs, findings must be interpreted, and the whole nature of science involves changing ideas.
Click to expand...
Nope. Where do you get “based on my faith,” when I’ve clearly explained the science? In fact, you completely avoided my direct scientific questions. Let me know which scientists have stated that:

A) A zygote isn’t human.
B) A zygote is not a living being with distinct DNA - different DNA than any other human.

Those are scientific statements. To claim human life begins sometime after zygote is where philosophy comes in. Your statements to the contrary and accusing me of differing with scientists due to my faith are without merit.

And, of course, you still haven’t answered when you think a zygote/embryo/fetus becomes a human being. Still confused?
 
Mickey said:
If scientists are the only ones he will listen to…perhaps he can watch this. In fact…everyone should watch this.

uncommondescent.com/biology/great-ted-talks-vid-human-life-from-conception-to-birth/
Click to expand...
The topic of abortion and science came up on my part in reaction to one of Bob’s comments. I don’t listen to science exclusively, particularly when it may contradict my faith. I take into account a variety of explanations on issues such as this. Bob is the one who is asking for a scientific explanation.
 
rlg94086 said:
Nope. Where do you get “based on my faith,” when I’ve clearly explained the science? In fact, you completely avoided my direct scientific questions. Let me know which scientists have stated that:

A) A zygote isn’t human.
B) A zygote is not a living being with distinct DNA - different DNA than any other human.

Those are scientific statements. To claim human life begins sometime after zygote is where philosophy comes in. Your statements to the contrary and accusing me of differing with scientists due to my faith are without merit.

And, of course, you still haven’t answered when you think a zygote/embryo/fetus becomes a human being. Still confused?
Click to expand...
Bob, if you will read the article I referred to, you’ll get a more complete answer. For some scientists, embryology is not a frame of reference, but rather neurology, genetics, metabolism, or consciousness.

I’m almost sorry I reacted to one of your previous posts. For one thing, we’ve derailed the original thread. For another, I should know by now that when it comes to the topic of abortion, most Catholics on this Forum are not open to any alternative viewpoints, whether they be religious, philosophical, scientific, or humanist.
 
meltzerboy said:
I should know by now that when it comes to the topic of abortion, most Catholics on this Forum are not open to any alternative viewpoints
Click to expand...
That is because there are no “alternative viewpoints.” There is but one viewpoint. Abortion is murder at any stage of life from conception through birth. These voiceless martyrs in the womb do not have a choice. 50 million plus babies have been murdered since Roe v Wade. It is genocide.
 
meltzerboy said:
Bob, if you will read the article I referred to, you’ll get a more complete answer. For some scientists, embryology is not a frame of reference, but rather neurology, genetics, metabolism, or consciousness.
Click to expand...
That makes no sense. You can’t determine the beginning of human life based on neurology, meyabolism or consciousness. Genetics, yes. That is clear. You have a new being with a new, distinct human DNA. Unless you deal with that obvious, scientific fact, you fail.

The only way you can equivocate on the beginning of a human being is if you start to attach value. In other words, ‘yes, a zygote is human (a scientist can’t argue against that), but to be a human being of value, you need to exhibit…’ The problem with discussing value is that it is subjective, not pure science. It is also how monsters throughout history have justified killing innocent human beings whom they deemed “less than human.”
40.png
meltzerboy:
I’m almost sorry I reacted to one of your previous posts. For one thing, we’ve derailed the original thread. For another, I should know by now that when it comes to the topic of abortion, most Catholics on this Forum are not open to any alternative viewpoints, whether they be religious, philosophical, scientific, or humanist.
Click to expand...
I love it. You are the king of non-answers, and didn’t even provide your "alternative viewpoint on the beginning of life, as you complain that most Catholics on the Forum aren’t open to it. I guess that’s the best arguement you’ve got. Call your opposition a bunch of close-minded rubes (in an eloquent way, of course) and run away. Sad. 🤷

Now, when is it that you said human life begins? Oh yeah…you still haven’t… I can only conclude that you aren’t certain. And, that is okay, if you want to admit that. Not everyone understands basic scientific concepts.
 
rlg94086 said:
That makes no sense. You can’t determine the beginning of human life based on neurology, meyabolism or consciousness. Genetics, yes. That is clear. You have a new being with a new, distinct human DNA. Unless you deal with that obvious, scientific fact, you fail.

The only way you can equivocate on the beginning of a human being is if you start to attach value. In other words, ‘yes, a zygote is human (a scientist can’t argue against that), but to be a human being of value, you need to exhibit…’ The problem with discussing value is that it is subjective, not pure science. It is also how monsters throughout history have justified killing innocent human beings whom they deemed “less than human.”

I love it. You are the king of non-answers, and didn’t even provide your "alternative viewpoint on the beginning of life, as you complain that most Catholics on the Forum aren’t open to it. I guess that’s the best arguement you’ve got. Call your opposition a bunch of close-minded rubes (in an eloquent way, of course) and run away. Sad. 🤷

Now, when is it that you said human life begins? Oh yeah…you still haven’t… I can only conclude that you aren’t certain. And, that is okay, if you want to admit that. Not everyone understands basic scientific concepts.
Click to expand...
I’m not certain because scientists who discuss this issue are themselves not certain. That’s what the article discusses. And with respect to a human being, I believe, in accord with my own faith, that the full status of the human being (not physically viable human life, but physical AND spiritual human being) occurs when the soul is instilled at the moment of birth.
 
meltzerboy said:
The topic of abortion and science came up on my part in reaction to one of Bob’s comments. I don’t listen to science exclusively, particularly when it may contradict my faith. I take into account a variety of explanations on issues such as this. Bob is the one who is asking for a scientific explanation.
Click to expand...
The other Bob
 
Mickey said:
That is because there are no “alternative viewpoints.” There is but one viewpoint. Abortion is murder at any stage of life from conception through birth. These voiceless martyrs in the womb do not have a choice. 50 million plus babies have been murdered since Roe v Wade. It is genocide.
Click to expand...
Dear Mickey,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Hear, Hear, jolly well said and bang on target.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
meltzerboy said:
And with respect to a human being, I believe, in accord with my own faith, that the full status of the human being (not physically viable human life, but physical AND spiritual human being) occurs when the soul is instilled at the moment of birth.
Click to expand...
But don’t you think that without all the stuff that occurred before the kid comes, out and all the stuff it took in ORDER for him/her to come out…are just as important for that soul to be instilled?

Isn’t that like saying I’ll believe it’s a tree when it pops out the ground, and I love trees, but we can pull out seeds…seeds ARE trees…
 
Dearly beloved friends,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

Until modern times men had very little knowldege as to how new life develops in the mother’s womb. They knew nothing of how sperm and ovum unite to form a human cell. Similarly, little was known regarding the stages of growth, especially before quickening, or the first feeling of movement, which people throughout the ages understandably viewed as a crucial stage of fetal development. Notwithstanding, dear friends, even with this very minimal knowldege, deliberate killing of unborn human life, even in this earliest form, was never considered from a Christian standpoint to be a morally responsible act.

The Change for Holy Mother Church (and for the rest of mankind) came from the discoveries of biological, genetic and psychological sciences during the preceding two centuries, especially in recent decades. Thus to speak only of genetics, dear friends, it is now a scientific certainty that the genetic code (what is termed DNA) which identifies each individual for life, is present already in the very first cells.

As the axiom goes, from the very moment the first cell is formed (in the union of sperm and ovum) until death occurs, the being becomes what it already is, that is to say human. To use the more archaic term, ‘ensoulment’ takes place. From the beginning, the cells are living and growing; it is indentifiable as a human life. To put it another way, dear friends, the Church now has a clear scientific basis, not available in the previous centuries, for its authoritative teaching that taking the life of the unborn is a most nefarious act, and that killing children, born or unborn, is no civilised solution to any problem.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top