Beck: Help us restore traditional American values

[bbarrick8383]

I came up with at least nine, by my count. If those are the rules, then I am a little bored with winning at this point - it’s sort of like the end of a game of Monopoly.

Take care.

I know my memory is bad, but I definitely do not remember 9 counts of Beck lies along with 9 unbiased sources of proof.

I’ve been on these forums for a time now, and one of the people that I have come to respect more than anyone else here agrees with me.

Usually, at the end of the game in monopoly, whoever bankrupts all the other players wins.

You have absolutely nothing, nada, zip, zero, zilch.

You haven’t even passed go to collect your first 200 dollars.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Well, just so you know what I was going to say about the good Judge earlier.

If you’ve paid any attention to Becks tv show during the time that we have been having this discussion. You would have known who Napolitano was. He’s hosting a special, I guess Becks on vacation, that has been on all weekend.

Today he has Dr. Alveda King on there with him who is another friend of Becks.

You know what they say, birds of a feather.

 

[Good_News_1]

You know what they say, birds of a feather.

I did catch a bit of Napolitano on youtube. He’s a successionist, despises Abraham Lincoln, and has a number of other odd revisionist opinions. What do you find of value?

 

[bbarrick8383]

I did catch a bit of Napolitano on youtube. He’s a successionist, despises Abraham Lincoln, and has a number of other odd revisionist opinions. What do you find of value?

Do you mean Secessionist? I would think many Catholics would be successionists.

And Dr. Alveda?

My point is that these are good honest people, and sometimes honest people are misquoted, misunderstood, misinterpreted whatever you want to call it. And they are plastered as liars all across the internet by anyone who disagrees with them.

These people are intelligent, religious, pro-life, and the judge is Catholic.

And worst of all, they are friends of Beck.

Do you think these people are also stupid enough to associate themselves with someone who lied on a constant basis?

He used to have a radio show before he started his own tv show. He’s very good at explaining the constitution.

 

[Good_News_1]

Do you mean Secessionist?

He believes the Southern states had the right to succeed from the union. He apparently also thinks it matters, somehow, today - that the question isn’t just theoretical at this point in history. Here at about 2:09:

youtube.com/watch?v=aXJOZUbEfJI

Listen to what he says: he says that the war between the states was treason by Lincoln. But that isn’t what the Constitution says:

“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them…” not individual states, but the United States.

 

[bbarrick8383]

He believes the Southern states had the right to succeed from the union. He apparently also thinks it matters, somehow, today - that the question isn’t just theoretical at this point in history.

Secession (derived from the Latin term secessio) is the act of withdrawing from an organization, union, or especially a political entity. Threats of secession also can be a strategy for achieving more limited goals.[1]

Succession is the act or process of following in order or sequence.

All states should have that power. I’m no constitutional expert, but one means of keeping a government in check was the 2nd amendment, the other was secession.

Taking those away takes us back to an overbearing, oppressive government.

Without those tools, what can government not do?

As a matter of fact, there was a congressman who recently said that government had the power to do whatever it wants.

Do you honestly believe that is acceptable?

 

[Good_News_1]

Taking those away takes us back to an overbearing, oppressive government.

It’s been 150 years since the South’s failed succession and none of us are living under an oppressive regime, so I don’t see the connection.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Listen to what he says: he says that the war between the states was treason by Lincoln. But that isn’t what the Constitution says:

“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them…” not individual states, but the United States.

Ah, so by “them” and original intent, you believe that the government reserves the right to declare war on any state it wishes…

But it can not declare war on all of them, thereby declaring war on itself?

That makes sense…

Boy, I can imagine how hard it would be in todays world for our military to bomb a single state. Imagine them being deployed to bomb all of them.

“Hey Joe, aint you from da Bronx”

“Yea Mack, what’s up?”

“Ah nuttin, we just wiped it out. Hope your family made it out alright.”

“That’s ok Mack, I’m bombin your house tomorrow.”

 

[Good_News_1]

Ah, so by “them” and original intent, you believe that the government reserves the right to declare war on any state it wishes…

Probably. But that wasn’t the point: Napalitano said it was treason under the Constitution to declare war on a state, and it doesn’t say that.

 

[bbarrick8383]

It’s been 150 years since the South’s failed succession and none of us are living under an oppressive regime, so I don’t see the connection.

1. dominating harshly: imposing a harsh or cruel form of domination
   an oppressive regime

**2. highly stressful: exerting a worrying, troubling, or burdensome pressure on somebody **

First of all, it’s secession.

Second of all, the income tax in and of itself is oppressive.

Our federal government has become an oppressive federal government to the degree of definition number 2.

The federal reserve, inflation, a fiat currency, regulating everything under the sun through the commerce clause(they have shut down a farmer for giving his crops to a neighbor across state lines). You name it, the government believes they have the power to take it. We have government bureaucracies imposing taxes that they are not legally allowed to collect.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Probably. But that wasn’t the point: Napalitano said it was treason under the Constitution to declare war on a state, and it doesn’t say that.

No, he said any state.

That was exactly the point.

 

[Good_News_1]

First of all, it’s secession.

Thank you.

Second of all, the income tax in and of itself is oppressive.

Really? I hadn’t noticed. I was enjoying the most affluent lifestyle known to humanity in the United States, playing with my fantastic electrical gadgets that were unimaginable a couple decades ago, going to the church I select, choosing my friends and political beliefs without a second thought, posting my opinions on message boards, traveling to places I want to when I want to, and having free access to the opinions of others. And all this time I was oppressed by the income tax and I didn’t even notice it!

Our federal government has become an oppressive federal government to the degree of definition number 2.

I’ve gone several weeks without seeing a federal employee other than the mailman and some people on tv. I filled out the census and my tax forms. In my work, I need to work with some federal statutes, but in previous jobs I didn’t. I haven’t noticed a worrisome, budensome pressure.

The federal reserve,

Hasn’t that been around a hundred years, during which we have had what must be close to the greatest expansion of an economy in human history? I’m not saying it’s attributable to the Fed, but I don’t see where it oppressed anyone.

inflation,

Is flat at the moment.

Libertarians, I think, live in a different country than I do.

 

[Good_News_1]

No, he said any state.

That was exactly the point.

Are we in agreement that it says the “United States” not "any state?’

 

[CMatt25]

What I have learned from “listening to the other side” is that pro-choice catholics get very wobbly when you push them to explain their stand on the issue of abortion, just as Boxer did when she said, “I am not answering these questions”. The truth is, she ***couldn’***t answer the questions. Neither can pro-choice catholics on this forum.

Ishii

I can’t speak for Sen Boxer but on this forum? Oh they’ve been answered numerous times. :newidea: You just don’t like the answers because they don’t agree with you. :coffeeread:

 

[bbarrick8383]

Really? I hadn’t noticed. I was enjoying the most affluent lifestyle known to humanity in the United States, playing with my fantastic electrical gadgets that were unimaginable a couple decades ago, going to the church I select, choosing my friends and political beliefs without a second thought, posting my opinions on message boards, traveling to places I want to when I want to, and having free access to the opinions of others. And all this time I was oppressed by the income tax and I didn’t even notice it!

That’s great. Many of us can not afford the latest and greatest electrical gadgets…oh I’d love to get my hands on an iphone and an ipad. By the way, I pointed out the second definition of oppressive, not the first we haven’t got there yet.

Personally, I work for my family. We are hard working people, I take a livable wage so that my father who is nearing retirment age, been in the oil,cattle,farming business for over 30 years, can afford what many would consider a comfortable lifestyle. I happen to see what he has to pay in taxes through the company and personally every year. It is a very hard time where he has is forced to seperate with what we have earned to give to the government, all the while I’m stuck with a livable wage just barely above the poverty line. I’m able to afford the things I NEED, with the exception of a few of the basic things that are considered wants, such as the internet and tv.

He grew up dirt poor, his childhood was spent working just to be able to eat, the least I can do for him is ask for a livable wage while he enjoys the later years of his life.

I’ve gone several weeks without seeing a federal employee other than the mailman and some people on tv. I filled out the census and my tax forms. In my work, I need to work with some federal statutes, but in previous jobs I didn’t. I haven’t noticed a worrisome, budensome pressure.

grist.org/article/food-five-tips-for-surviving-a-raid-on-your-farm-or-food-club/

That’s great, unfortunately other people live in this country as well. Should we base our opinions on how wonderful our life is, or should we walk a mile in our neighbors shoes, maybe accept a gut reality check.

Oil, gas and agriculture, off the top of my head, are some of the most heavily regulated industries in America. Two of the most important industries are under constant scrutiny by federal, state and local government. And I have to deal with all of them on a daily basis.

Hasn’t that been around a hundred years, during which we have had what must be close to the greatest expansion of an economy in human history? I’m not saying it’s attributable to the Fed, but I don’t see where it oppressed anyone.

youtube.com/watch?v=9vR8Q1mxwzo

youtube.com/watch?v=A4kxTkhwR_Q

Is flat at the moment.

If I’m not mistaken, it rises on average 3% a year right? How many people at the poverty level income get a 3% year raise? What happens if inflation rises 3% a year, but our income only rises 1% a year?

Libertarians, I think, live in a different country than I do.

I know they do.

 

[Ridgerunner]

…and none of us are living under an oppressive regime, so I don’t see the connection.

Huh? This government shut down oil drilling in the Gulf and wants to pass cap and trade, acknowledging that it will raise the costs of energy significantly. Oh yes, and Obama has promised to “put the coal industry out of business”. Since my electricity comes from coal and I do use petroleum products and things that are manufactured and transported through the use of coal and/or petroleum, I do feel a bit oppressed nowadays, or at least potentially so.

It has decreed that I have to send a 1099 to every purveyor of goods and services to whom I pay more than $600. That’s a lot of people for any business person. Yes, and I’m going to have to get their SSN or TIN somehow in order to do that. Since nobody was even able to discover that part of the “healthcare bill”, I’m feeling a bit oppressed, since it’s going to cost me plenty to do that, and all to no good purpose.

My children are feeling pretty oppressed about the national debt that’s being put on their collective credit cards, and the unfunded entitlements that keep being added to, and all to no good purpose. Can’t say I blame them for that.

I’m not a secessionist, but you don’t have to be one to feel oppressed by the “one party state” these days.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Are we in agreement that it says the “United States” not "any state?’

Let’s quote it again:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

So yes, the first part says the United States. But that’s not the part I was referring to.

Shall consist only in levying War against THEM.

I pointed out, and I thought it was a very basic, simple reason why it would be referring to each and everyone of the states in my earlier post. It would not make sense otherwise.

Is being right, more important than understanding the argument and admitting error on ones behalf?

 

[Catherine_D]

Huh? This government shut down oil drilling in the Gulf and wants to pass cap and trade, acknowledging that it will raise the costs of energy significantly. Oh yes, and Obama has promised to “put the coal industry out of business”. Since my electricity comes from coal and I do use petroleum products and things that are manufactured and transported through the use of coal and/or petroleum, I do feel a bit oppressed nowadays, or at least potentially so.

It has decreed that I have to send a 1099 to every purveyor of goods and services to whom I pay more than $600. That’s a lot of people for any business person. Yes, and I’m going to have to get their SSN or TIN somehow in order to do that. Since nobody was even able to discover that part of the “healthcare bill”, I’m feeling a bit oppressed, since it’s going to cost me plenty to do that, and all to no good purpose.

My children are feeling pretty oppressed about the national debt that’s being put on their collective credit cards, and the unfunded entitlements that keep being added to, and all to no good purpose. Can’t say I blame them for that.

I’m not a secessionist, but you don’t have to be one to feel oppressed by the “one party state” these days.

I’m going to evaluate the cost/benefit of issuing those 1099’s. It will be a tremendous amount of work, not to mention the nonesense of getting TIN’s or SSN’s. But last time I checked the penalty for not filing a 1099 was $50, and that’s only if I get caught, which would require an audit, very unlikely. So it may not be worth my time to do the work if there is little risk of having to pay the penalty ~ a little bit of civil disobedience on my part. It’s something I will certainly consider if this requirement is not repealed.

Of course this entire procedure was put in place by people who have absolutely no clue about the impact, they were only interested in trying to extract more taxes, and this is supposedly a way to track down unreported income. I think the entire program is nonsense, since it will be more expensive to administer than it will ever collect in new revenue and taxes, but the first thing I’m going to do is find out the penalty for non-compliance.

 

[Good_News_1]

Shall consist only in levying War against THEM.

Yes, them, collectively, not individually, as in “these United States” which was in more common usage then, but referred to the collective nation.

If a state decides not to be a part of the United States, but declares itself an independent nation, I don’t see why the United States can’t declare war on that former state as it could any other independent nation. The Constitution would then be used to protect the rights of an independent separate nation, which wouldn’t make much sense. If some states decide to split off and form their own confederacy, then why can’t that confederacy and what remains of the United States go to war? The United States remain(s) as a collective, and the confederacy isn’t a part of the United States.

Is being right, more important than understanding the argument and admitting error on ones behalf?

Answer the above.

 

[Good_News_1]

I’m not a secessionist, but you don’t have to be one to feel oppressed by the “one party state” these days.

You have fears for the coal industry for the oil industry. You are concerned about the deficit. You think you need to send out more 1099s at some time in the future.

That’s disagreement with government policy, and concern about the future that is part of being alive.

Not oppression.