Beck: Help us restore traditional American values

[Good_News_1]

That’s great. Many of us can not afford the latest and greatest electrical gadgets…oh I’d love to get my hands on an iphone and an ipad. By the way, I pointed out the second definition of oppressive, not the first we haven’t got there yet.

I think this is getting personal, so I’ll withdraw from this. I really don’t want to get into economic circumstances.

Peace.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Yes, them, collectively, not individually, as in “these United States” which was in more common usage then, but referred to the collective nation.

If a state decides not to be a part of the United States, but declares itself an independent nation, I don’t see why the United States can’t declare war on that former state as it could any other independent nation. The Constitution would then be used to protect the rights of an independent separate nation, which wouldn’t make much sense. If some states decide to split off and form their own confederacy, then why can’t that confederacy and what remains of the United States go to war? The United States remain(s) as a collective, and the confederacy isn’t a part of the United States.

Answer the above.

The confederacy was never recognized as a legally seperate state if I’m not mistaken.

Was it not technically still a part of the union when war was declared on them?

At that point it would still be protected by the constitution. I’m going to assume congress would have to pass something declaring them seperate from the union and no longer under the protection of the constitution.

Some government officials in Vermont, last I check they were running for office not sure if they made it or not, want to secede because the US is not liberal enough for them.

At what point would it be ok for a sitting President to declare war on them? At the point they themselves did not recognize their land as a state? When that President did not recognize them as a state? Or would an assembly of Congress have to pass something saying they were no longer a member of the union?

Either way, to deny the constitution is not there to cage government from becoming what it is today is to deny reality. As humans we can rationalize anything we wish, such as the case with Catholics and abortion. But to rationalize that government needs to do something that is not within the binds of their enumerated powers is to ignore the warnings of our founding fathers.

We were given the ability to vote with our feet, yet we are taking that ability away from ourselves by allowing government to regulate our every move. What’s the point of having 50 states if we end up under one rule?

 

[bbarrick8383]

I think this is getting personal, so I’ll withdraw from this. I really don’t want to get into economic circumstances.

Peace.

It’s not getting personal, part of individual freedom/responsibility/Christianity is not forming your opinions based on your own life, but also on the life of those around you. The ultimate question those left of the spectrum need to ask themselves is, does the government taking money out of the private sector, printing/borrowing more money, inflating it’s value and passing it around the various bureaucracies, and artificially filtering it back into the system to help those they are truly trying to help? Or does it hurt them? I believe in the end it’s doing more harm than good. Look at the cost of living in most states. It’s one reasons why I live where I do. At this rate I’d have to have roomates or government subsidized housing in the city to live there.

I wouldn’t want to go there either if the argument would not turn out in my favor.

 

[ishii]

I can’t speak for Sen Boxer but on this forum? Oh they’ve been answered numerous times. :newidea: You just don’t like the answers because they don’t agree with you. :coffeeread:

If you read the transcript from the exchange between Boxer and Santorum, you will see that Boxer couldn’t answer his questions without exposing herself for the pro-infanticide fraud that she is. Since she couldn’t answer, she simply said, “I’m not answering those questions”. That, ultimately is what pro-abortion rights catholics on this forum do to. Or they deny the humanity of the unborn, which is how you, CMatt, apparently rationalize your support for abortion rights.

Here is the link to the exchange, if you read, you might learn something about the moral bankruptcy of the pro-abortion rights position.

nrlc.org/abortion/pba/notansweringboxersantorum.html

Ishii

 

[Nec5]

Hardly a lot of time when doing research??? Wow.

Nope. Not when you got to air the next week.

goodnews:

Gosh, if I were on national television, with a budget to hire a couple college students to do some fact checking so I didn’t mislead my trusting audience, I would understand how the list was compiled, and if I was misinformed by my own research or someone else’s, I would retract or modify my statement and take corrective action, to preserve my precious reputation.

It wasn’t misleading. Your argument is circular again.

goodnews:

Beck promises he checks his sources. Call it a draw, at best.

This isn’t a contest. It’s about truth. Obama ran for transparency and won. Now he is not transparent. And you dodge the issue I pointed out.

goodnews:

But that isn’t what Beck said, is it???

Nor is your quote what I said. Only half of what I said, the half you wanted to use.

goodnews:

The Pulitizer is a negative?

Yes. Just like the Nobel piece prize and most of these types of “prestigious” awards, there’s a type of group think associated with it. It tends to be liberal/progressive. Flush twice. Just like giving Obama the Nobel Peace Prize for doing nothing. Just like the Academy Awards. Just one group of elitists’ opinions.

 

[Good_News_1]

Either way, to deny the constitution is not there to cage government from becoming what it is today is to deny reality.

Again, your strange libertarian “reality” and this unknown country you live in.

In terms of the functions of government - that is social programs, farm subsidies, welfare, highway construction, etc (not necessarily the size of the government) - the government has been largely of the same configuration that has been my entire life (and I’m not that young).

And we have hundreds of people in the Congress, Presidents, the entire Supreme Court, the entire federal judiciary, etc., accepting that the government is operating within its Constitutional limits, and that it has been the same way for generations. (Because it is operating within its Constitutional limits).

Then you have a political party - the libertarians - who represent about two percent of the population, saying that everyone in the world is denying reality, and everyone living here in the greatest economic engine known to man is being killed by taxes, that all of us who free to vote and speak and live as we choose, are oppressed.

This isn’t The Matrix. It’s real life.

What do you want to do? Go back to old theories of enumerated powers, call Jefferson a traitor like Lincoln, and give the Louisiana Purchase back?

 

[Ridgerunner]

You have fears for the coal industry for the oil industry. You are concerned about the deficit. You think you need to send out more 1099s at some time in the future.

That’s disagreement with government policy, and concern about the future that is part of being alive.

Not oppression.

When the government places burdens on people that serve no purpose other than to satisfy its sense of having accomplished abstract ideological goals that are shared by its leaders but very few in the populace, I would call that oppression. I don’t suppose leftists would, because they seem to think that’s what government is for. You don’t have to be boiled in acid to feel oppressed. For goodness sake, the colonists felt oppressed by taxes and impositions that we would consider laughably mild today, and nobody particularly argues that their sense of being oppressed was unfounded.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Again, your strange libertarian “reality” and this unknown country you live in.

Unfortunately you can not see beyond your own nose. There is a perception, and there is a reality. I’m trying to point the reality out to you and you refuse to see it.

In terms of the functions of government - that is social programs, farm subsidies, welfare, highway construction, etc (not necessarily the size of the government) - the government has been largely of the same configuration that has been my entire life (and I’m not that young).

Farming has/is been slowly destroyed by our own government.

And we have hundreds of people in the Congress, Presidents, the entire Supreme Court, the entire federal judiciary, etc., accepting that the government is operating within its Constitutional limits, and that it has been the same way for generations. (Because it is operating within its Constitutional limits).

Honestly? You can sit there and tell me that this US government has not done anything outside it’s binds of the constitution? I can’t tell if you are keeping a straight face or not, but you have to be joking.

. The Printing of paper money.

. The establishment of a government run healthcare system.

. The Supreme Court has given itself the power of 'judicial review.”

. The presidents (both past and present) have signed “executive orders” that effect things outside of the executive branch of the government.

. Warrantless wiretapping.

. The establishment of the PATRIOT Act.

. Congress making laws that are outside of the 20 powers given to it by the Constitution.

. The president’s use of power not given to him in the Constitution.

. The federal government has taken power that should be reserved to the states, or the people, as stated in the 10th Amendment.

. Establishing a federal level Social Security program.

Then you have a political party - the libertarians - who represent about two percent of the population, saying that everyone in the world is denying reality, and everyone living here in the greatest economic engine known to man is being killed by taxes, that all of us who free to vote and speak and live as we choose, are oppressed.

I’m not saying we are being killed by taxes, those near the poverty line are being killed by inflation and it’s hurting even worse to witness those we work for being taxed so much.

What do you want to do? Go back to old theories of enumerated powers, call Jefferson a traitor like Lincoln, and give the Louisiana Purchase back?

Old theories? They are a part of the US constitution. If I’m not mistaken Jefferson admitted that he had circumvented the constitution. The enumerated powers were not theories, but protections. If we do not go back to binding our government to it, we will end up in the same situation that got us here. Maybe not in our lifetime, but I guess that does not matter to some.

youtube.com/watch?v=qPvuYxUxEto

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Again, your strange libertarian “reality” and this unknown country you live in.

In terms of the functions of government - that is social programs, farm subsidies, welfare, highway construction, etc (not necessarily the size of the government) - the government has been largely of the same configuration that has been my entire life (and I’m not that young).

And we have hundreds of people in the Congress, Presidents, the entire Supreme Court, the entire federal judiciary, etc., accepting that the government is operating within its Constitutional limits, and that it has been the same way for generations. (Because it is operating within its Constitutional limits).

Then you have a political party - the libertarians - who represent about two percent of the population, saying that everyone in the world is denying reality, and everyone living here in the greatest economic engine known to man is being killed by taxes, that all of us who free to vote and speak and live as we choose, are oppressed.

This isn’t The Matrix. It’s real life.

What do you want to do? Go back to old theories of enumerated powers, call Jefferson a traitor like Lincoln, and give the Louisiana Purchase back?

Jefferson was America’s best president. Lincoln was not a traintor, he was a tyrant. Going back to enumerated powers would be a refreshing change, and why give the Louisiana Purchase back? And no generation has the right to encumber the succeeding generations with the amount of debt for pointless entitlement programs like the Progressives have. Honestly, I think its time to bring back tarring and feathering.

 

[Catherine_D]

And no generation has the right to encumber the succeeding generations with the amount of debt for pointless entitlement programs like the Progressives have.

Isn’t encumbering the next generation with debt to pay for today’s expenses, whatever they may be, a form of taxation without representation? Many of those who will be saddled with this debt aren’t even born, haven’t even been conceived yet. But they will be forced to pay, through their taxes, for the expenses of their parents and grandparents today.

As a parent and grandparent myself, I wouldn’t dream of racking up debt to pay for anything today and then sloughing that debt off on my children or grandchildren. Why in the world would anyone believe that it is OK for the government to do it if we think it would be wrong to do it ourselves individually?

 

[CMatt25]

That, ultimately is what pro-abortion rights catholics on this forum do to. Or they deny the humanity of the unborn, which is how you, CMatt, apparently rationalize your support for abortion rights.

Well not exactly, Ishii. Apparently all that time I spent answering questions wasn’t an entire waste of my time though. I’m glad you at least now acknowledge an “or” and that answers on the forum are/were given. But while I understand your view, you obviously missed what I answered. I don’t expect you to agree. I do hope you can listen and understand better however. So to that end, Ishii, here was my answer again and then I am leaving this thread.

Many in our democracy of plural beliefs and reasoning on this issue may or may not agree with whatever you or I might believe and reason about embryonic humanity personhood. And a great many believe and reason exceptions for rape and incest and the health of the mother. A great many do not see black and white but gray. Roe is the law of the land. Abortion existed pre-Roe. So I espouse safe, legal but rare and policies to aid in the rare part.

And more importantly Beck and others moving on to emphasizing other values Christ more clearly called for us to do.

Advocating more so for those already born human persons who are walking the earth in poverty, homelessness, hunger. and illness without adequate, affordable health care.

God bless again always, Ishii, on your walk of faith with Him and peace.

 

[Christopher68]

Jefferson was America’s best president. Lincoln was not a traintor, he was a tyrant. Going back to enumerated powers would be a refreshing change, and why give the Louisiana Purchase back? And no generation has the right to encumber the succeeding generations with the amount of debt for pointless entitlement programs like the Progressives have. Honestly, I think its time to bring back tarring and feathering.

I believe Jefferson was America’s best president as well.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Isn’t encumbering the next generation with debt to pay for today’s expenses, whatever they may be, a form of taxation without representation? Many of those who will be saddled with this debt aren’t even born, haven’t even been conceived yet. But they will be forced to pay, through their taxes, for the expenses of their parents and grandparents today.

As a parent and grandparent myself, I wouldn’t dream of racking up debt to pay for anything today and then sloughing that debt off on my children or grandchildren. Why in the world would anyone believe that it is OK for the government to do it if we think it would be wrong to do it ourselves individually?

Yep it is, and redistributing tax payer money from one state to the next is also taxation without representation.

You 100 percent right.

 

[ishii]

Well not exactly, Ishii. Apparently all that time I spent answering questions wasn’t an entire waste of my time though. I’m glad you at least now acknowledge an “or” and that answers on the forum are/were given.

But while I understand your view, you obviously missed what I answered.

No, I think I understand you quite well.

I don’t expect you to agree. I do hope you can listen and understand better however. So to that end, Ishii, here was my answer again and then I am leaving this thread.

Many in our democracy of plural beliefs and reasoning on this issue may or may not agree with whatever you or I might believe and reason about embryonic humanity personhood. And a great many believe and reason exceptions for rape and incest and the health of the mother. A great many do not see black and white but gray. Roe is the law of the land. Abortion existed pre-Roe. So I espouse safe, legal but rare and policies to aid in the rare part.

CMatt, thanks for responding again. I think what you’re saying is the same as saying " many in our pluralistic democracy support apartheid, I do not see black and white, but gray." You are a relativist. What could be more black and white but the injustice of killing a baby because its “inconvenient” and “unplanned preganancy” ??!! The language used by Planned Parenthood and the abortion lobby is Orwellian indeed. We ought to oppose this with every fiber of our being. That you only see gray here is sad. Obviously I and others have failed to persuade you. I hope you and other catholics will reconsider so fewer babies will be slaughtered. Morality is morality. ***Don’t you think the unborn deserve our help? *** .

And more importantly Beck and others moving on to emphasizing other values Christ more clearly called for us to do.

Advocating more so for those already born human persons who are walking the earth in poverty, homelessness, hunger. and illness without adequate, affordable health care.

But what about the “about to be born” !!! Don’t they deserve our help too?

God bless again always, Ishii, on your walk of faith with Him and peace.

Thanks CMatt. But abortion is wrong, and we need to work toward abolishing legal abortion on demand first and foremost, while considering the poor and the less fortunate

Ishii.

 

[human_being]

Media matters are leftist NUTS.

Obviously you are another person on the left who didnt watch.

Beck is no different on the right…A 'rightist" nut.

 

[human_being]

Hi there. While I’m not a fan of Beck, you are sinning by assuming the worst of your neighbor. You’re judging when it is not at all clear that his motive is simply cash. Not charitable at all, my friend. Also, Media Matters is extremely biased. If you really want an unbiased news site, try Wikinews or Politifact.

Beck does the ‘same’ thing daily and he leads alot of others to do the same…Do not even think to tell me that this charlatan is any good… It’s no different when his type bashes Obama every single day. all day long…Godly? I should think not.

 

[human_being]

Is there a more extreme liberal source than the huffington?

For crying out loud…Beck works at FOXNEWS does he not? Extreme? Or what?

 

[Nec5]

For crying out loud…Beck works at FOXNEWS does he not? Extreme? Or what?

No more or less than CNN and the networks (ABC, CBS, NBC). Or MSNBC. Or the BBC.

 

[human_being]

Slow down, please! I did not say that anyone is advocating bullets, OK?

Father Martin is advocating an aberrant theology which has failed repeatedly in actual practice and which is only tangentially consistent with Church teaching. Liberation theology, inspite of the warm, fuzzy intent of its supporters, has the effect of armed conflict and death.

Again, our choices are not simply between a rightist Mormon and a leftist Priest. The Church teaches a better way than both of them.

I’m sorry but the ‘sacred teachings’ of the FOXNEWS crew and the advocacy of alot of the things they ‘preach’ have probably led to alot of deaths when they win too many people over too at some points in history…I can feel it…Over and over all i see is a constant defense of certain politics who twist the Catholic church into some how conformiong to it…It really is sickening…Their must be really some kind of Koolaid…Because it amazes me to what I read…I’m really sick of reading it…I can’t believe it’s catholics condoning it on a site which pretty much tells the whole world that it is catholic…Weirdest catholicism I’d eer had expected to see…Seems to me that the majority are saying YOUMUST BE A RIGHTWING CONSERVATIVE TO BE CATHOLIC…yet i could never picure Jesus listening to one word of this nonsense…That’s why the paintings have Sacred Hearts and such painted.(he actually had a heart)…sorry the media conservaatism i hear has none of that…just about brains, bossing, and money.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Beck does the ‘same’ thing daily and he leads alot of others to do the same…Do not even think to tell me that this charlatan is any good… It’s no different when his type bashes Obama every single day. all day long…Godly? I should think not.

So, you watch Beck on a regular basis as well?