Being a Police Officer, Being a Catholic

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devoutchristian said:
Then I guess Catholics should all just become hermits. 🤷
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if that’s what your scruples call you to be, then that’s what you should be. that’s fine. I encourage you to do just that.

on the other hand, I manage to represent a wide variety of criminals and stay a devout christian.
 
Fairwinds said:
if that’s what your scruples call you to be, then that’s what you should be. that’s fine. I encourage you to do just that.

on the other hand, I manage to represent a wide variety of criminals and stay a devout christian.
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No it’s not what the faith says to do. It’s the logical conclusion of your perversions of the faith.
 
devoutchristian said:
Why do you seem to put the constitution above natural law?
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because I (the generic I) don’t want to pay for your (the generic you) scruples, monetary or otherwise. I don’t want the police to be shorthanded when I need one because someone decided he or she couldn’t do the job and the person who filled in for you wasn’t there for me. and since I’m one of those increasingly rare individuals who pays taxes, I don’t want to pay to have you trained up and then you decide you can’t do what I’m paying you to do.

does natural law permit you to take a job knowing you won’t do your sworn duty? my version of natural law calls that “theft” or “fraud”.

that’s not a rhetorical question.
 
Fairwinds said:
are you really saying my faith is perverted because I represent criminals?

think this through.
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I wasn’t talking about your representation of criminals. I was talking about your idea that people should never take a job where there is the slightest chance of being asked to doing something sinful.
 
Fairwinds said:
because I (the generic I) don’t want to pay for your (the generic you) scruples, monetary or otherwise. I don’t want the police to be shorthanded when I need one because someone decided he or she couldn’t do the job and the person who filled in for you wasn’t there for me. and since I’m one of those increasingly rare individuals who pays taxes, I don’t want to pay to have you trained up and then you decide you can’t do what I’m paying you to do.

does natural law permit you to take a job knowing you won’t do your sworn duty? my version of natural law calls that “theft” or “fraud”.

that’s not a rhetorical question.
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So you adhere to Americanism?
 
Fairwinds said:
fantastic. do it in advance, before you take public money and incur obligations to the public.
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If a Doctor doesn’t enter that profession to end life with Abortion, would you say the same to them because they refuse to perform or recommend someone to perform an abortion?

Please read my previous post again.
josh987654321 said:
This is why I brought up the Doctor scenario where they are required by law to recommend an abortionist if they refuse to do the procedure themselves, this is an example of an immoral law that is in conflict with our conscience, this is an example of a “legal requirement” which should be refused regardless of what the law say’s or what is “required” of a Doctor.

Would you tell someone like me not to become a doctor?

You should always be ready to martyr your Job if it is in conflict with God,** it doesn’t mean you don’t get a job, it just means that you should not be willing to do anything it requires of you when it’s in conflict with God in order to keep it.**

*Matthew 16:24-27

24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. 25 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. 26 What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul? 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done*

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
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Fairwinds said:
because I (the generic I) don’t want to pay for your (the generic you) scruples, monetary or otherwise.
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We are both Roman Catholics, so it wouldn’t be “my” scruples, it would be yours as well. It would be “our” scruples.
I don’t want the police to be shorthanded when I need one because someone decided he or she couldn’t do the job and the person who filled in for you wasn’t there for me.
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The question is, what job are you wanting them to do? Wouldn’t you want our LEO’s to have high moral standards? Why would you want them to do what they are told to do (when it conflicts with God) with disregard of God or conscience?
and since I’m one of those increasingly rare individuals who pays taxes, I don’t want to pay to have you trained up and then you decide you can’t do what I’m paying you to do.
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We are both Roman Catholic’s so the question is, what are you paying them to do?
does natural law permit you to take a job knowing you won’t do your sworn duty? my version of natural law calls that “theft” or “fraud”.
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Our sworn duty should be to God above any other. Like I said, would you say the same for a Doctor who refused to perform or recommend someone else to perform an Abortion? would that be “theft” or “fraud” to get into that profession?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
devoutchristian said:
I wasn’t talking about your representation of criminals. I was talking about your idea that people should never take a job where there is the slightest chance of being asked to doing something sinful.
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I’ll try again. if the (generic) you fail in your duty in any way that harms me because you have an attack of the scruples, I’ll more than a little upset, and someone is going to pay, don’t take a job and defraud your employer if this is going to happen.

apart from that, if all you’re doing is flipping burgers and you (the generic you) gets wigged out because of who you’re serving, quit, that’s fine with me. if don’t care if (the common) you never holds a job longer than a month, as long as (the every man’s) you its not harming anyone else.
 
josh987654321 said:
We are both Roman Catholics, so it wouldn’t be “my” scruples, it would be yours as well. It would be “our” scruples.
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I don’t suffer from attacks of scrupulosity. a LEO who suddenly decides he can’t do his job does.
josh987654321 said:
The question is, what job are you wanting them to do? Wouldn’t you want our LEO’s to have high moral standards? Why would you want them to do what they are told to do (when it conflicts with God) with disregard of God or conscience?
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I don’t want you (not you personally) playing cop until you decide that you don’t want to be one in the middle of a shift. either obey your superiors or don’t take the job. I don’t care which.
josh987654321 said:
We are both Roman Catholic’s so the question is, what are you paying them to do?
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we ever-dwindling taxpayers are paying for cops to uphold the law and not decide what laws should be upheld.
josh987654321 said:
Our sworn duty should be to God above any other. Like I said, would you say the same for a Doctor who refused to perform or recommend someone else to perform an Abortion? would that be “theft” or “fraud” to get into that profession?
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no, for reasons others have articulated quite well.
josh987654321 said:
God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
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spare me this.
 
Fairwinds said:
I don’t want you (not you personally) playing cop until you decide that you don’t want to be one in the middle of a shift. either obey your superiors or don’t take the job. I don’t care which.

we ever-dwindling taxpayers are paying for cops to uphold the law and not decide what laws should be upheld.
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Would you say the same to an SS officer in Nazi Germany during WWII if he didn’t want to persecute the Jews? or even a Doctor who didn’t want to recommend or provide any means in which a woman could have an Abortion?

*Matthew 16:24-27

24 Then Jesus said to his disciples:

If any of you want to be my followers, you must forget about yourself. You must take up your cross and follow me. 25 If you want to save your life,[e] you will destroy it. But if you give up your life for me, you will find it. 26 What will you gain, if you own the whole world but destroy yourself? What would you give to get back your soul?

27 The Son of Man will soon come in the glory of his Father and with his angels to reward all people for what they have done. *

Should we leave our profession, work and social status in order to attain the kingdom of God? No. Instead we should learn how to use them, because he who becomes attached to the material goods that he possesses and is willing to sacrifice everything in order to keep them, will discover in the end that all that he had accumulated on earth has no value at all in the Kingdom of Heaven.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Fairwinds said:
I’ll try again. if the (generic) you fail in your duty in any way that harms me because you have an attack of the scruples.
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If someone intends to harm another, you would have to be a special kind of crazy to have an attack of scruples over whether or not you should try and protect someone from harm. This is not the kind of attack of scruples I am talking about. I am talking about if you are required to uphold or enforce a law that is immoral and/or causes harm to others, because the law is man made and won’t always be right, therefore we must remember that God is the highest authority and not the law, not man.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
devoutchristian said:
It is only moral to arrest someone if they have (or if they are reasonably suspected of having) violated a just law. The purpose of bubble laws is to restrict pro-life speech, as such they are unjust.
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I have to agree with the previous poster and disagree with this. There is nothing immoral with laws governing public order even if they limit absolute free speech anywhere and everywhere. A person cannot enter a Catholic Church and start protesting for gay rights. A person cannot go to a public area and start hurling cuss words, threats and racial slurs. Such actions provoke violence and get people killed.

If the first poster does not understand the purpose and the need of public order laws, the I recommend he not become a protector of the public order. The Catholic Church does not advocate anarchy, but believes that civil government exists for the good of maintaining safety and civile order. On the other hand, an individual police officer seldom has to arrest anyone. Most of the time, enough leeway of judgment is granted that one can advise a citizen to correct an action in accordance with the law and not arrest them.
 
Fairwinds said:
don’t be a cop. you haven’t thought this through.
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đź‘Ť

If I’m a cop, it’s my job to cover my fellow officer’s back or I, in good conscience, can’t expect him to cover mine. If he’s performing his job legally, I will not leave his wing because of disagreements I may have with his job.

If I’m a doctor, Catholic or not:
Certain constraints are necessary to ensure the legal, equitable, and efficient delivery of health care:
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Medical students and trainees must be aware of the commitments of the profession and be prepared to undertake these or not become doctors
The medical profession has an obligation to ensure that all patients are aware of the full range of services to which they are entitled
Any would-be conscientious objector must ensure that patients know about and receive care that they are entitled to from another professional in a timely manner that does not compromise their access to care
Doctors who compromise the delivery of medical services to patients on conscience grounds must be punished through removal of licence to practise and other legal mechanisms
The place for expression and consideration of different values is at the level of policy relating to public medicine.
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…this is what I’m giving my oath to do.

Should a Pharmacist refuse to work in a store that sell condoms? I use them over my shotgun barrel in heavy brush conditions.

Should that same Pharmacist refuse hormone treatment prescribed to a celibate woman suffering menstrual problems?

Back to the cop…If you can’t cover my back when I’m upholding a legal law because of your beliefs, DO NOT become a cop. My life and the lives of those I’m protecting is worth more to me than your beliefs.
 
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