Being gay is in your genes

  • Thread starter Thread starter pepipop
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It’s actually a quite valid question. If not everyone who has the genes is homosexual those could reproduce, .
It is a valid question even if they could not reproduce as well. That is natural selection. If, however, those who are homosexuals produce almost as well as heterosexuals, it would belie the idea that this gene, whatever it is, makes one homosexual and that homosexuality has always existed at about the same level. Indeed, this would mean that a “homosexual” could live a normal and fruitful heterosexual life, something not accepted today.
 
What if it turns out that both that: there is no gay gene and SSA is not a choice?

General Question:
How would that change your attitude and or behavior?

It is a distinct possibility:

Neither Genes nor Choice:
Same-Sex Attraction Is Mostly a Unique Reaction to Environmental Factors

[Journal of Human Sexuality 3:81-114 (2011)]
by Neil E. Whitehead
 
What if it turns out that both that: there is no gay gene and SSA is not a choice?

General Question:
How would that change your attitude and or behavior?

It is a distinct possibility:

Neither Genes nor Choice:
Same-Sex Attraction Is Mostly a Unique Reaction to Environmental Factors

[Journal of Human Sexuality 3:81-114 (2011)]
by Neil E. Whitehead
How about that young people can be misled by the power of persuasion like me? Why do we get ignored by the gay lobby so much. It’s as if we don’t exist? Those liars will get their due.
 
I have a silly question. How could a genetic disposition to be homosexual exist if there is any truth to natural selection? Homosexuality produces no offspring. A “gay gene” should disprove Darwin and acceptance of natural selection should preclude any disposition that produces no children.
You are assuming that the only purpose of sex is for reproduction. We know from human behavior, as well as observations of behavior in apes, that such an assumption isn’t valid. Sex is often engaged in for motives of bonding, either to promote economic well-being or to increase status or simply to help ensure survival.

Homosexuality would serve to help survival of the species, as Joie de Vivre pointed out, by providing a reserve of adults who would produce excess food and other resources. They would also be able to assist in supplemental child care more freely than those who are also caring for their own children. Those sort of things would promote survival of the species on a tribal level by helping to ensure that children reach reproductive age. While a small percentage of those offspring may be homosexually inclined, as adults they could continue the cycle.

Survival of the species depends on population factors, not simply individual reproduction.
 
It is a valid question even if they could not reproduce as well. That is natural selection. If, however, those who are homosexuals produce almost as well as heterosexuals, it would belie the idea that this gene, whatever it is, makes one homosexual and that homosexuality has always existed at about the same level. Indeed, this would mean that a “homosexual” could live a normal and fruitful heterosexual life, something not accepted today.
Why hasn’t Tay-Sachs completely died out?

Able to reproduce≠live a normal and fruitful heterosexual life

Pretending to be “normal”, to “fit in”, to be “happy” when one is not is quite exhausting and miserable.
 
You are assuming that the only purpose of sex is for reproduction. We know from human behavior, as well as observations of behavior in apes, that such an assumption isn’t valid. Sex is often engaged in for motives of bonding, either to promote economic well-being or to increase status or simply to help ensure survival.
You can’t separate the two completely. Sex exists for BOTH procreation AND unification.

Besides, there is a difference between men and animals. Looking to the animal kingdom to deduce purposes only goes so far. If animal behavior were really a source of moral behavior, then I cannibalism, incest, and a host of other behaviors would be acceptable. Humans, as rational beings, derive moral behavior from more than just what we observe.
 
Why hasn’t Tay-Sachs completely died out?

Able to reproduce≠live a normal and fruitful heterosexual life

Pretending to be “normal”, to “fit in”, to be “happy” when one is not is quite exhausting and miserable.
Who is to say it won’t? First, adults onset can occur. Second, we do not know when this particular disease became manifest. It is a genetic mutation after all. Finally, the occurrence of it may be proportional to a natural selection taking place, I tried to find the rate, but the only rate I found was one in every 5000-7500 births. Is this comparable to the homosexual issue?
 
You are assuming that the only purpose of sex is for reproduction. We know from human behavior, as well as observations of behavior in apes, that such an assumption isn’t valid. Sex is often engaged in for motives of bonding, either to promote economic well-being or to increase status or simply to help ensure survival.

Homosexuality would serve to help survival of the species, as Joie de Vivre pointed out, by providing a reserve of adults who would produce excess food and other resources. .
Are you talking about people or apes? I know of no society today that keeps homosexuals as a reserve force to produce resources for others. Interesting idea.
 
Is the epigenetic change counted in the 40%? Do epigenetic changes show up on genes? Are epigenetic changes noticeable to scientists?
Epigenetic changes are chemical modifications of DNA (e.g., methylation) or modifiers of gene expression (e.g., post-translational modifications of histones that wrap around DNA). Most changes are not permanent, but how they are made/unmade is not entirely known, much less how the changes are targeted specifically. They do not change the amino acid sequence of a resulting protein — just expression (a lot, medium, little, none).

Are epigenetic changes noticeable? If you mean detectable, then yes. Lots of people study that in context of cancer, for instance.

But I’m not sure people want to spend money (it’s still quite expensive, which is justifiable for cancer research) only to show that there’s a correlation between possible epigenetic changes and sexual orientation. And it would be hard to convince anyone to do human research to find a causative link.
 
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
Where does it say one chooses who they’re attracted to?
 
To whom one is attracted is not a choice. To act on the attraction is a choice.
,
So we’re in agreement.

Which is why it’s puzzling to me why there’s such a push to deny as much as possible a genetic role.

Even if it’s 100% genetic, the call to chastity does not change.
 
It is a valid question even if they could not reproduce as well. That is natural selection. If, however, those who are homosexuals produce almost as well as heterosexuals, it would belie the idea that this gene, whatever it is, makes one homosexual and that homosexuality has always existed at about the same level. Indeed, this would mean that a “homosexual” could live a normal and fruitful heterosexual life, something not accepted today.
If “fruitful” means having children, then yes. A homosexual can father children and be in a meaningful relationship with someone of the opposite sex. Not even the “gay activists” are denying that gays can have children. It’s the psychological detriment of having to live a lie and pretend. If both partners of a marriage where one is not straight are completely honest with each other and are OK, then all power to them.

But a “fruitful” life may mean more than being reproductively successful.
 
So we’re in agreement.

Which is why it’s puzzling to me why there’s such a push to deny as much as possible a genetic role.

Even if it’s 100% genetic, the call to chastity does not change.
Most people with SSA change to have heterosexual desires, FACT. How convenient that so many ignore this.
 
Are you talking about people or apes? I know of no society today that keeps homosexuals as a reserve force to produce resources for others. Interesting idea.
You asked a question about evolution: “How could a genetic disposition to be homosexual exist if there is any truth to natural selection?”

I was simply answering your question. From an evolutionary perspective, homosexuality might offer an advantage to the survival of a population which offsets their lack of reproduction. However, I am not sure if any research exists to support or reject that idea.
You can’t separate the two completely. Sex exists for BOTH procreation AND unification.

Besides, there is a difference between men and animals. Looking to the animal kingdom to deduce purposes only goes so far. If animal behavior were really a source of moral behavior.
I wasn’t saying that homosexual behavior was moral. As you noted, all kinds of behavior seem natural but that, in itself, doesn’t make such behavior moral. It seems natural for males to sow their wild oats, rather than limit themselves to monogamy. However, such a natural impulse is not moral.
 
Most people with SSA change to have heterosexual desires, FACT. How convenient that so many ignore this.
What study has shown this?

What study can show this? How does one find a random sample of people with SSA that represents the population average?

Why is it so necessary for people with SSA to convert to being straight, as you seem to imply with your insistence that with enough determination, deep-seated gay attraction can be changed?

If SSA is a cross to bear or an opportunity of merit to live a chaste life, how is that opposed to moral teachings of the Church?
 
Who is to say it won’t? First, adults onset can occur. Second, we do not know when this particular disease became manifest. It is a genetic mutation after all. Finally, the occurrence of it may be proportional to a natural selection taking place, I tried to find the rate, but the only rate I found was one in every 5000-7500 births. Is this comparable to the homosexual issue?
Check the frequency of Tay Sachs amongst Ashkenazim.
Are you talking about people or apes? I know of no society today that keeps homosexuals as a reserve force to produce resources for others. Interesting idea.
In Western society we call those people confirmed bachelors and spinsters.
Most people with SSA change to have heterosexual desires, FACT. How convenient that so many ignore this.
And 9/11 was clearly an inside job :rolleyes:
What study has shown this?

What study can show this? How does one find a random sample of people with SSA that represents the population average?

Why is it so necessary for people with SSA to convert to being straight, as you seem to imply with your insistence that with enough determination, deep-seated gay attraction can be changed?

If SSA is a cross to bear or an opportunity of merit to live a chaste life, how is that opposed to moral teachings of the Church?
His source says claims 98% change during the 16-17 age period to heterosexual, but given that the frequency of SSA is higher than 2% that means more than 100% of people were gay, there is a ton of double counting in that period which is incompatible with the definition of sexuality being durable or the data is garbage.
 
What study has shown this?

What study can show this? How does one find a random sample of people with SSA that represents the population average?

Why is it so necessary for people with SSA to convert to being straight, as you seem to imply with your insistence that with enough determination, deep-seated gay attraction can be changed?

If SSA is a cross to bear or an opportunity of merit to live a chaste life, how is that opposed to moral teachings of the Church?
I have posted the link many times on threads that you participated.

Asking why is it “necessary” for people to change from SSA to heterosexual only demonstrates your complete lack of objectivity regarding the matter.

Regarding your comment that people can change with “determination” it is clear you are projecting your incomplete understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
 
His source says claims 98% change during the 16-17 age period to heterosexual, but given that the frequency of SSA is higher than 2% that means more than 100% of people were gay, there is a ton of double counting in that period which is incompatible with the definition of sexuality being durable or the data is garbage.
You understanding of math is flawed and only demonstrates your desperation to undermine any evidence that SSA is not inherent.
 
I have posted the link many times on threads that you participated.

Asking why is it “necessary” for people to change from SSA to heterosexual only demonstrates your complete lack of objectivity regarding the matter.

Regarding your comment that people can change with “determination” it is clear you are projecting your incomplete understanding of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
And what is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

To repent, love God and neighbors, and gain life. Heterosexual attraction is not a requirement for any of those.

You write things that are not supported by Church teachings. The Church never stated that homosexuals must gain heterosexual attraction — only a life of chastity and resistance of disordered desires and temptations.

Again, where does the Church teach that homosexual attraction must be converted to heterosexuality?
 
And what is the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

To repent, love God and neighbors, and gain life. Heterosexual attraction is not a requirement for any of those.

You write things that are not supported by Church teachings. The Church never stated that homosexuals must gain heterosexual attraction — only a life of chastity and resistance of disordered desires and temptations.

Again, where does the Church teach that homosexual attraction must be converted to heterosexuality?
You are very confused. I would appreciate it if you did not make claims on my behalf. Furthermore, you cannot find one post of mine that disagrees with Catholic doctrine.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top