Better theological response to "why doesn't God heal amputees?"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bohm_Bawerk
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
So the real question is whether Jesus was Divine. Let us start here. What did Jesus Himself claim?
Well, you’ll have to take that up with Flyinggg. I offered the “Historical Jesus” post to dismiss the implications of your post that because Jesus existed, he was God. I didn’t/don’t want this thread to devolve into whether or not Jesus was God. If I wanted to know about that, I would have asked it. I’m perfectly happy with what I personally believe in. I just wanted a good theological response to why God doesn’t heal amputees in the “modern era”.
 
Well, you’ll have to take that up with Flyinggg. I offered the “Historical Jesus” post to dismiss the implications of your post that because Jesus existed, he was God. I didn’t/don’t want this thread to devolve into whether or not Jesus was God. If I wanted to know about that, I would have asked it. I’m perfectly happy with what I personally believe in. I just wanted a good theological response to why God doesn’t heal amputees in the “modern era”.
OK.

Another question could be asked. Why isn’t Jesus alive today rather than 2000 years ago? Many would argue the “modern era” needs Him now more than ever.

Why did He pick a limited number of people to heal when He was alive? Why not the entire human race? I don’t have that answer, but I do not think it an issue of belief either.
 
OK.

Another question could be asked. Why isn’t Jesus alive today rather than 2000 years ago? Many would argue the “modern era” needs Him now more than ever.
Jesus came in the “fullness of time” (cf. Galatians 4:4). I haven’t studied history (or at least, religious history) in quite a while, but I recall reading that Jesus came at the “perfect time” with respect to the events going on in Rome.
Why did He pick a limited number of people to heal when He was alive? Why not the entire human race? I don’t have that answer, but I do not think it an issue of belief either.
The apostles were all martyred and/or suffered persecution, so it isn’t like they had their cake and ate it too. Incidentally, it was a question I asked myself when I was younger. I don’t think you can draw a parallel between God choosing who will be his apostles and why he doesn’t heal amputees in modern times.
 
This is pretty basic.

There are no legitimate historians that deny Jesus lived.

Where you wanna start? How about extrabiblical evidence?
You the are one who is saying that Jesus existed and was divine, it’s up to you to prove your claims. Not only atheists disbelieve the divinity of Christ. Supposing you have evidences that he truly existed, do you have among them evidences to prove he was divine or at least a super powerful human? I honestly doubt it.
 
You the are one who is saying that Jesus existed and was divine, it’s up to you to prove your claims. Not only atheists disbelieve the divinity of Christ. Supposing you have evidences that he truly existed, do you have among them evidences to prove he was divine or at least a super powerful human? I honestly doubt it.
Don’t you think the same questions were asked when people saw Jesus heal and create miracles. How about those that were not convinced? Then they say him bring Lazarus from the tomb who was dead 4 days. How about His very own Resurrection?

Historians confirm the historicity of the Biblical accounts. Modern standards require two witnesses, Jesus had thousands. In addition, after His Resurrection He appeared to many. For the Christians it is satisfactory evidence.

Atheists are asking for more, but even if given more, still want more.

I need not prove more to you. There is plenty out there for you to research. If you choose to remain ignorant of the ample evidence, then forever remain ignorant.

BTW - the atheist playbook is wearisome. You can’t know how many times each atheist discovers the tired old questions and then tries to test them out here. 😦
 
Don’t you think the same questions were asked when people saw Jesus heal and create miracles. How about those that were not convinced? Then they say him bring Lazarus from the tomb who was dead 4 days. How about His very own Resurrection?

Historians confirm the historicity of the Biblical accounts. Modern standards require two witnesses, Jesus had thousands. In addition, after His Resurrection He appeared to many. For the Christians it is satisfactory evidence.

Atheists are asking for more, but even if given more, still want more.

I need not prove more to you. There is plenty out there for you to research. If you choose to remain ignorant of the ample evidence, then forever remain ignorant.

BTW - the atheist playbook is wearisome. You can’t know how many times each atheist discovers the tired old questions and then tries to test them out here. 😦
buffalo, what you are presenting is not an evidence for what I asked, you mentioned again the story of Jesus in the bible as an absolute truth and that only an ignorant won’t accept it, while there is hundreds of religions that have holy books and offers holy stories that are true for their followers, should I accept them too? They also show what they call ‘facts’.
 
buffalo, what you are presenting is not an evidence for what I asked, you mentioned again the story of Jesus in the bible as an absolute truth and that only an ignorant won’t accept it, while there is hundreds of religions that have holy books and offers holy stories that are true for their followers, should I accept them too? They also show what they call ‘facts’.
It is a historical fact that Jesus existed, and that he did many unexplained healings.

It is also a fact that Buddha was a real person, and did and taught the things attributed to him. So did Mohammed. We can know all of these things without following the religions that sprang up around these men.
 
buffalo, what you are presenting is not an evidence for what I asked, you mentioned again the story of Jesus in the bible as an absolute truth and that only an ignorant won’t accept it, while there is hundreds of religions that have holy books and offers holy stories that are true for their followers, should I accept them too? They also show what they call ‘facts’.
Answer this - name the top religions to make your case and give me the name of its founder.
 
I know personally I was conned and no analogy is going to remove that. Thank you anyway.
The only way, Bohm, you could “know personally” if you were conned is if you know for certain that God doesn’t exist.

***And there is simply no way you could know that for sure. ***

For you to know this would give you the power of omniscience…

and if you were an omniscient being, then you would be God, and then…

your original premise would be false.

See? 🙂

You can’t know that you were conned at all. 🤷
 
Why did He pick a limited number of people to heal when He was alive? Why not the entire human race? I don’t have that answer, but I do not think it an issue of belief either.
The answer is because Jesus did not come to be a healer, to be a miracle-maker, to preach a new ethical message, or to be a philosopher (even though he did indeed heal, make miracles, preach and philsophize.)

He came to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.
 
After what I’ve been through, nothing could convince me of the existence of God.
So why are you here? Also, I think danserr and a few others who touched on the nature of suffering have the right answer. You wanted a theological response. Theologically speaking, the Church is the “body of Christ” which is mystically crucified on the cross in union with the incarnate Christ. The suffering of amputees, or anyone else’s suffering for that matter, can be united to the sacrifice of the God-man, and thus effect salvation for that person and other members of the body at large who are united with that member. We believe by faith from the witness of the early Christians, martyrs, prophecies, divine revelation, and other miracles and testimony throughout the centuries, that all those who will to unite their temporal suffering with Christ’s have those temporal pains obliterated in eternity.
 
Former Catholic, unfortunately.
Then you ought to understand that when you make comments like this, “but the Bible makes it more than clear” that Catholics understand the Bible in light of the faith which gave you this Bible.

Thus, what “the Bible makes clear” is not what you think it says.

God is not a tame God, borrowing from the Narnian story. He is not magic. He is not to be called upon like a talisman to do your bidding.
I understand that perfectly. But the rosary is “implicitly” approved by the Church. Virtually every great saint and pope has recommended the rosary. It might ultimately be a private devotion, but that does not negate the fact that it is implicitly approved by the Church (same with the pilgrimage sites Fatima and Lourdes; prayers such as the Chaplet of Divine Mercy).
All of this is true, but is a non-sequitur. The rosary, like God, is not a talisman. It is not magic. It does not do your bidding because you ask.
 
Why would God need to heal an amputee. They are fine. They are (usually) not in constant pain. It won’t kill them. It really has little affect on people. I’m not trying to say amputees have little to struggle with, but I think there are a lot worse things in the world. My mother has had arthritis form about the time I was 6. She has had to get up every single day no matter the pain and sacrifice herself for others. Why hasn’t God healed her? Because we are supposed to carry our crosses and follow Christ. We are not to run away from our pain and hate it. Amputees aren’t going to die. God may choose for that to be their burden. Besides, God doesn’t like to use miracles that often, He created the laws of nature for a reason.
 
I have had times in my past of significant suffering, and I’ve seen loved ones suffer, too, both mentally and physically. I’ve seen anguish. And I’ve wondered, as well, why God allowed it. Like you, I read some passages in the Bible that I thought guaranteed that God would give what we asked for.

Yet, obviously those verses aren’t quite literal. For example, if I prayed for harm to come to somebody, God wouldn’t answer that. What if I wanted all sunny days, while farmers pray for rain?

Of course, I’m sure your prayers were about something that it seemed like God would want to answer “yes” to. I felt the same about mine and the prayers of others. And looking at the world in general, I can see so many, many times when I wonder about what seems like no response from God.

But if God was “required” to answer everything we asked, even if it was just limited to everything “good”, then He would in a sense be our slave, not our God. So if He would choose to never, ever heal an amputee, that doesn’t make Him less real. There are so many forms of illness and suffering. I’m certain you’ll find some of every kind where there is no documented healing miracle.

For myself, I finally realized that my lack of understanding certainly didn’t disprove God’s existence. For me, whether or not God IS is something I struggle with often. It’s not an easy thing for me. But I do know that my lack of understanding proves nothing.

I am so sorry for whatever kind of pain you are in. I realize you said it wasn’t a healing, so I assume it isn’t physical pain, but when you feel conned, that’s pain. I know prayer means nothing to you right now, but I think you hear the caring in it when I say this: I will pray for you.
 
What’s a better theological response? Serious answers only please.
It is possible that:
First assumption: God does heal amputees.

1-A But there are no records.

1-B there are records but you or me do not have them .

2nd assumption: god does not heal amputees.

2-A There’s an inscrutable reason behind his reluctance to do so.

2-B There’s an intelligible reason behind his reluctance that we’re not aware of

2-C there’s a reason we’re aware of but we do not appreciate its persuasiveness.

I take it that you’re reasonable enough to see that even if one or all of them are unlikely, in your opinion, they are still possible.

But let me address something more fundamental , is this an argument against the existence of God?

Well, this is a response I wrote elsewhere. people were fighting about whether this or that miracle was valid and whether it helped to stablish the “case” of god’s existence. This is what I wrote, don’t know if that’s what you’re looking for.
******
Does god heal amputees?

Catholics, stop taking the bait when asked the question. You will give an example of this or that putative miracle and will engage in a fruitless debate about the “weight” of the evidence. Or you will take the “there might be miracles out there we don’t know about” approach which will not pass the skeptic’s criteria, or you will take this or that approach , etc.

The question is a red-herring, the skeptic that asks the question wants you to go along with his assumption that existence of god is like a scientific theory or a matter of fact. We measure the “evidence” or lack of it to see if the “hypothesis” of god is likely or not. And then we measure and calculate the available evidence to “disconfirm” the God hypothesis.

Since the evidence is lacking or flimsy, in the skeptic’s opinion, then the God hypothesis is likely wrong.
But this is completely false.

God is not a hypothesis or a matter of fact. If god exists he necessarily exists, if god does not exist** he is impossible**.

Take a triangle; what sort of evidence would decrease the probability that a triangle has three sides?

Take a married bachelor, what sort of evidence would increase the probability of there being married bachelors?

Is 2+2+=4 probable or improbable? What evidence needs to be marshaled to raise or decrease the possibility of the result being 4?

This and other related questions are irrelevant, non-sequiturs that confuse matter of facts with necessary truths.

God is a sort of necessary truth; he is perfect, an unmoved mover, the greatest being that can be thought or the ground of all being or pure actuality,** nothing can prevent it from existing**. Now, if god does not exist it is because he’s logically impossible. There’s something in the concept of god that is incoherent. It is impossible for god to come into existence.

Now, we’re in a position to address the argument, does god heal amputees? dunno but, it is irrelevant to the question of whether god exists or not.

1-If god exists, he necessarily exists. (and conversely If he does not exist he’s impossible.)

2- And since he’s necessarily omnipotent he can heal amputees when he wants to, that is, if he has not done it already.

Put the ball in his court and let him prove that the concept of god is impossible, when he does so, then we can certainly conclude that god does not heal amputees.Before then, keep Challenging his implicit assumptions, do not play by his rules. 👍
 
It is a historical fact that Jesus existed, and that he did many unexplained healings.

It is also a fact that Buddha was a real person, and did and taught the things attributed to him. So did Mohammed. We can know all of these things without following the religions that sprang up around these men.
Their existance isn’t a proof for their divinity, prophecy or super powers, I guess we agree on that. I am out of the OP, I’m sorry!
 
The best response is that God doesn’t heal amputees because he doesn’t supernaturally intervene in the lives of people 😉
 
Former Catholic, unfortunately.
If you believe Catholicism is false you should be delighted you have discovered the truth!

You could have asked why God doesn’t prevent accidents which deprive individuals of their limbs and permits others to be born without limbs - or any other accidents for that matter. Wouldn’t it be more logical to nip evil in the bud? 🙂
 
I agree with what william of ware said above, but to respond to the poster from earlier on God could give knowledge in order to achieve something but that doesn’t mean that He is directly involved in giving the knowledge. It is up to the person to how they use the gifts that they are given. So both a doctor and a dictator could be given intelligence but its still up to them in how they use it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top