Beware of the Occult

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I’m telling you how I see them, and trying to dispel false assumptions and prejudices. If I appear rebellious, it’s because you probably have them.
Them, as in “false assumptions and prejudices”. I’m sure I do. I don’t like what I consider to be the occult. I think it is a pollution. I don’t hide that. You have taught me that the meaning of the word “occult” or disambiguation is not the same for everyone. But that is a stretch from popular belief. I think as you come into the Church, you will find that it, as well as Christ will always give you a choice. And the formation of your conscience will advance as long as you stay open to teachings. But when one, two or the whole Church challenges your beliefs within the body of Christ. You know where you stand. There is plenty of mystery within the Church to occupy your thoughts with. Stick with what is sound. I love the writings of St. Faustina. She is a recognized Saint and one could spend much time in learning from her. No need to look outside the real body of Christ for the truth. Tim
 
If Occult means what the dictionary says, and we don’t get hung up on “satanic” or “negative” conotations of it. Then the Catholic church has much that is occult in it.

It seeks to use supernatural power, provided by an outside source to achieve certain ends. It uses ritual, formula, consecrated objects, speaking to the dead and to divine beings and spirits. The fact that it labels it’s energies and spirits good and other energies and spirits evil does not change the fact that occult practices are in use.

I am not saying this to upset anyone, just to put the facts on the table. Catholicism uses these things to attain graces in this life, and life eternal. This is similar to the purposes other people, religions, groups use such practices. The difference being in the powers that are called upon and the understanding of the source of the power. The practices are nearly identical.
 
If Occult means what the dictionary says, and we don’t get hung up on “satanic” or “negative” conotations of it. Then the Catholic church has much that is occult in it.

It seeks to use supernatural power, provided by an outside source to achieve certain ends. It uses ritual, formula, consecrated objects, speaking to the dead and to divine beings and spirits. The fact that it labels it’s energies and spirits good and other energies and spirits evil does not change the fact that occult practices are in use.

I am not saying this to upset anyone, just to put the facts on the table. Catholicism uses these things to attain graces in this life, and life eternal. This is similar to the purposes other people, religions, groups use such practices. The difference being in the powers that are called upon and the understanding of the source of the power. The practices are nearly identical.
See post 79
 
It is disurbing that if someone mentions the occult, satanist and falls from grace these days that they are labeled a conspirisist.
It’s not that… It’s the fact that you seem to be pulling things out of thin air.

Necronomicon? Going to churches to lead people astray? Mantle? Where on earth are you getting your information about satanists from? Also, any good ‘occult’ books aren’t going to be found at Barns & Noble or Books a Million. Infact, it wouldn’t be secret or hidden if it were in a book at all unless it simply wasn’t available to the masses.

One doesn’t need to go to a church to find Christians to toy with. That sounds like someone with far to much time on their hands, and most likely no job at all.
 
It’s not that… It’s the fact that you seem to be pulling things out of thin air.

Necronomicon? Going to churches to lead people astray? Mantle? Where on earth are you getting your information about satanists from? Also, any good ‘occult’ books aren’t going to be found at Barns & Noble or Books a Million. Infact, it wouldn’t be secret or hidden if it were in a book at all unless it simply wasn’t available to the masses.

One doesn’t need to go to a church to find Christians to toy with. That sounds like someone with far to much time on their hands, and most likely no job at all.
May I ask to what religous affiliation you belong, if any? I could not get it from your profile or post history, Thanks, Tim
 
Have we agreed on a definition of “occult” yet?😃
Yes, it is what people call the stuff they do when other people do it and it makes them uncomfortable. (just kidding)

It’s religion practice that isn’t “mainstream” (100 million flies can’t be wrong)

Actually, I don’t go for the occult, mainstream or otherwise. If God (the Divine) thinks it is important for folks to know it…then what’s with the secrets, the “only the special initiates” get the power and all that jazz?

I think it is a weapon people use to set themselves apart. Not a gift the Divine uses, but something people do to say “I know more than you, I have power in my pocket” etc. and honestly…all the power they get is by making others jealous or afraid. They still get sick, have money troubles, love issues and all the rest of the stuff. All their power really manifests nothing.
 
Do times call for another “Summis desiderantes affectibus”?🙂
** The Bull of Innocent VIII **
Code:
**Innocent, Bishop, Servant of the servants of God, for an eternal remembrance.**
DESIRING with the most hearfelt anxiety, even as Our Apostleship requires, that the Catholic faith should especially in this Our day increase and flourish everywhere, and that all heretical depravity should be driven far from the frontiers and bournes of the Faithful, We very gladly proclaim and even restate those particular means and methods whereby Our pious desire may obtain its wished effect, since when all errors are uprooted by Our diligent avocation as by the hoe of a provident husbandman, a zeal for, and the regular observance of, Our holy Faith will be all the more strongly impressed upon the hearts of the faithful.

It has indeed lately come to Our ears, not without afflicting Us with bitter sorrow, that in some parts of Northern Germany, as well as in the provinces, townships, territories, districts, and dioceses of Mainz, Cologne, Tréves, Salzburg, and Bremen, many persons of both sexes, unmindful of their own salvation and straying from the Catholic Faith, have abandoned themselves to devils, incubi and succubi, and by their incantations, spells, conjurations, and other accursed charms and crafts, enormities and horrid offences, have slain infants yet in the mother’s womb, as also the offspring of cattle, have blasted the produce of the earth, the grapes of the vine, the fruits of the trees, nay, men and women, beasts of burthen, herd-beasts, as well as animals of other kinds, vineyards, orchards, meadows, pasture-land, corn, wheat, and all other cereals; these wretches furthermore afflict and torment men and women, beasts of burthen, herd-beasts, as well as animals of other kinds, with terrible and piteous pains and sore diseases, both internal and external; they hinder men from performing the sexual act and women from conceiving, whence husbands cannot know their wives nor wives receive their husbands; over and above this, they blasphemously renounce that Faith which is theirs by the Sacrament of Baptism, and at the instigation of the Enemy of Mankind they do not shrink from committing and perpetrating the foulest abominations and filthiest excesses to the deadly peril of their own souls, whereby they outrage the Divine Majesty and are a cause of scandal and danger to very many. And although Our dear sons Henry Kramer and James Sprenger, Professors of Theology, of the Order of Friars Preachers, have been by Letters Apostolic delegated as Inquisitors of these heretical pravities, and still are Inquisitors, the first in the aforesaid parts of Northern Germany, wherein are included those aforesaid townships, districts, dioceses, and other specified localities, and the second in certain territories which lie along the borders of the Rhine, nevertheless not a few clerics and lay folk of those countries, seeking too curiously to know more than concerns them, since in the aforesaid delegatory letters there is no express and specific mention by name of these provinces, townships, dioceses, and districts, and further since the two delegates themselves and the abominations they are to encounter are not designated in detailed and particular fashion, these persons are not ashamed to contend with the most unblushing effrontery that these enormities are not practised in these provinces, and consequently the aforesaid Inquisitors have no legal right to exercise their powers of inquisition in the provinces, townships, dioceses, districts, and territories, which have been rehearsed, and that the Inquisitors may not proceed to punish, imprison, and penalize criminals convicted of the heinous offences and many wickednesses which have been set forth. Accordingly in the aforesaid provinces, townships, dioceses, and districts, the abominations and enormities in question remain unpunished not without open danger to the souls of many and peril of eternal damnation.

[cont.]
 
Wherefore We, as is Our duty, being wholly desirous of removing all hindrances and obstacles by which the good work of the Inquisitors may be let and tarded, as also of applying potent remedies to prevent the disease of heresy and other turpitudes diffusing their poison to the destruction of many innocent souls, since Our zeal for the Faith especially incites us, lest that the provinces, townships, dioceses, districts, and territories of Germany, which We had specified, be deprived of the benefits of the Holy Office thereto assigned, by the tenor of these presents in virtue of Our Apostolic authority We decree and enjoin that the aforesaid Inquisitors be empowered to proceed to the just correction, imprisonment, and punishment of any persons, without let or hindrance, in every way as if the provinces, townships, dioceses, districts, territories, yea, even the persons and their crimes in this kind were named and particularly designated in Our letters. Moreover, for greater surety We extend these letters deputing this authority to cover all the aforesaid provinces, townships, dioceses, districts, territories, persons, and crimes newly rehearsed, and We grant permission to the aforesaid Inquisitors, to one separately or to both, as also to Our dear son John Gremper, priest of the diocese of Constance, Master of Arts, their notary, or to any other public notary, who shall be by them, or by one of them, temporarily delegated to those provinces, townships, dioceses, districts, and aforesaid territories, to proceed, according to the regulations of the Inquisition, against any persons of whatsoever rank and high estate, correcting, mulcting, imprisoning, punishing, as their crimes merit, those whom they have found guilty, the penalty being adapted to the offence. Moreover, they shall enjoy a full and perfect faculty of expounding and preaching the word of God to the faithful, so often as opportunity may offer and it may seem good to them, in each and every parish church of the said provinces, and they shall freely and lawfully perform any rites or execute any business which may appear advisable in the aforesaid cases. By Our supreme authority We grant them anew full and complete faculties.

At the same time by Letters Apostolic We require Our venerable Brother, the Bishop of Strasburg (Albrecht von Bayern, 1478-1506 - ed.), that he himself shall announce, or by some other or others cause to be announced, the burthen if Our Bull, which he shall solemnly publish when and so often as he deems it necessary, or when he shall be requested so to do by the Inquisitors or by one of them. Nor shall he suffer them in disobedience to the tenor of these presents to be molested or hindered by any authority whatsoever, but he shall threaten all who endeavour to hinder or harass the Inquisitors, all who oppose them, all rebels, of whatsoever rank, estate, position, pre-eminence, dignity, or any condition they may be, or whatsoever privilege or exemption they may claim, with excommunication, suspension, interdict, and yet more terrible penalties, censures, and punishment, as may seem good to him, and that without any right of appeal, and if he will he may by Our authority aggravate and renew these penalties as often as he list, calling in, if so please him, the help of the secular arm.

Non obstantibus … Let no man therefore … But if any dare to do so, which God forbid, let him know that upon him will fall the wrath of Almighty God, and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.

Given at Rome, at S. Peter’s, on the 9 December of the Year of the Incarnation of Our Lord one thousand four hundred and eighty-four, in the first year of Our Pontificate.
 
Thanks for posting. I couldn’t find a Vatican translation in the archives online. Tsuzuki, you don’t think it would be 2/3’s?
 
May I ask to what religous affiliation you belong, if any? I could not get it from your profile or post history, Thanks, Tim
Interesting, my first post on CAF pretty much sums it up.

I am what one would call a satanist or diabolist. Satanism does tend to have a lot of flexibility and is pretty individualistic, but what you’re describing is nonsense.

Now before you go asking what a satanist is doing on a catholic forum - To be honest, there’s some very well thought out and insightful posts on CAF as well as some good debates. I’m rather fond of intelligent discussions.
 
The sound of the corpse’s shuffling their feet is getting too much in here. Tim
 
I’m not sure what that’s supposed to mean, but insults aren’t very charitable you know.

Don’t worry Tim, you wouldn’t be able to pick me out from a crowd. It’s not like I announce it. Everyone I know thinks I’m an atheist, including my husband. 😉
 
Are you trying to give him a heart attack from paranoia?

Don’t worry, Tim, I could be the most conservative and orthodox seeming Catholic at your parish and you’d never know it was me.
I have to admit that made me laugh. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had to correct christians, including catholics, over the years - But you won’t catch me in any churches. I prefer a respectful distance.

You are however, derailing the thread.

On topic - If you do get involved in any of the previously mentioned topics, be prepared. It’s rarely what you would expect. There’s no mantle or gaining ‘favor’ which is what I’m assuming ‘mantle’ means.
 
Are you trying to give him a heart attack from paranoia?

Don’t worry, Tim, I could be the most conservative and orthodox seeming Catholic at your parish and you’d never know it was me.
Your joking , right? I’ve had my runins with evil before. 5 trips to the mental hospital to be exact and have had some nasty falls, but I have help getting back up.🙂
 
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