F
Fitz
Guest
I am starting that tonight Lance. I thought for some time that I should ignore, but I was always tempted to put my 2 cents in. I am not a good debater so it was disasterous. I am turning over a new leaf.
- Status
D
Digitonomy
Guest
My objection to the thread in question wasn’t the facts as presented. These are mostly straightforward and true, at least at the beginning. As the article goes on, the conclusions drawn and presented become much less reliable, and rather anti-American as has been noted.
Big deal. The purpose of this message board is not to foster pro-Americanism. It’s to discuss and foster Catholicism. If someone wants to post his personal criticism of the US or its policies, selectively citing facts to support very dubious conclusions, I don’t see the problem. I’ve seen the same techniques used to support other viewpoints.
My problem is that the poster did NOT post his personal criticism. Instead he simply cut and pasted someone else’s article for this purpose. It’s bad enough when someone comes along and simply pastes a paragraph from some news source, as if that passes for an insightful post. Like we can’t read the news ourselves. Not to mention that the 10% copyright rule is usually violated.
If you’re going to cut and paste articles, at least include your own commentary so we can see why we should bother reading the paragraph. But pasting an article that is so long that it requires three consecutive posts really does cross the line.
Big deal. The purpose of this message board is not to foster pro-Americanism. It’s to discuss and foster Catholicism. If someone wants to post his personal criticism of the US or its policies, selectively citing facts to support very dubious conclusions, I don’t see the problem. I’ve seen the same techniques used to support other viewpoints.
My problem is that the poster did NOT post his personal criticism. Instead he simply cut and pasted someone else’s article for this purpose. It’s bad enough when someone comes along and simply pastes a paragraph from some news source, as if that passes for an insightful post. Like we can’t read the news ourselves. Not to mention that the 10% copyright rule is usually violated.
If you’re going to cut and paste articles, at least include your own commentary so we can see why we should bother reading the paragraph. But pasting an article that is so long that it requires three consecutive posts really does cross the line.
J
jdnation
Guest
If I may speak up, since I’m sure I’m considered by some of you here as ‘anti-American’ or ‘Anti-Semetic’ over my last few posts. It seems as if these ‘biased posts’ anger some of you merely because it is another point of view. Bias is extremely hard to get rid of and I’m no more biased than you are, nor are my posts concerning the Iraqi situation any more ‘anti-american’ or ‘anti-semetic’ than many of you here are ‘anti-muslim.’
I don’t know about any of the other characters on this forum that you’ve all had trouble with in the past, possibly for very good reasons, since I’m relatively new… and taking criticism is hard especially over topics concerning one’s ethnicity, religion or nationality. I have no problem if you criticize my country, we’re having a turmoil here over gay-marriage, so fire away. Criticism and others points of view are good to take into account.
I’m sorry if I angered you to this extent, it was never my intention. However I still stand by the things I’ve posted, and if you can show me where I’m wrong I don’t mind, however instead of intelligently criticising my points I’m simply being dismissed as anti-american? There is a lot going on in the world with censorship and avoidance of politically charged issues, especially with concern to Israel today, and it is NOT anti-semetic to criticize the policies of their government. I’ve seen many of you here not hesitate to criticize Arab countries or Sudan etc. which is all fine, they are much deserved, however, why this double standard? Even Pope John Paul the II who’s in a hospital right now never hesitated to tell any political figures what he thought.
Quite frankly if you’re trying to threathen members in this way simply for speaking their mind sincerely without insults or derogatory language as per the terms of service of this forum then it make hypocrites of your defense of democracy and the things America stands for, particularly something called rights, which are beautiful and unfortunately also subject to abuse.
I grew up in India, as a child I watched American films, mostly war films as well as cartoons like G.I. Joe etc. where we saw America as a brave country full of brave men and heroes and prosperous. Not simply myself but other children around me who lived in poverty, I was better off being average middle class, but my friends were amongst my own, amongst the wealthier and amongst the poorest of the poor, Catholics, Hindus and Muslims… Truly I can say I admired America and like most people abroad in 3rd world countries imagined the dream a lot of you share. However something terrible has happened, and it seems that your country is slinking further into a situation of which there may be no escape. I was simply trying to relate what is going on outside and why children abroad may never see you the same way again.
I have grown up during the times of Hindu/Muslim riots, I have seen violence, been in the vicinity of bombs and had a political figure assassinated right outside my school, I can still recall the day, hearing a loud shot and seeing the many crows flying into the air. I was of course a child at the time, a time where people were being killed in buses, men, women and children as well due to these religious wars that never settled since the time of Ghandi, and knowing the only thing that might protect me was a scapular of the sacred heart my mother put around my neck, so that perhaps when a muslim or hindu approached me with a machette and tore off my clothes to see if I was circumcised (which I am), he might spot it and not kill me, since it had nothing to do with Christians. The situation in Iraq I imagine is much much worse and perhaps I cannot imagine it, but I’ve lived through times that might reflect this, and I’m sensitive about out of hand remarks about Muslims or otherwise, NOT because I think their religion is somehow equal, my faith is as a Roman Catholic, and my faith is the true church under the authority of the pope and Holy See, the apostles, martyrs, prophets, heirarchies of angels, our Holy Mother in Heaven all under the authority of Jesus Christ, son of the most High God. However there is the hope of salvation outside the Church, verified in Scripture and I believe by Mary herself. So please watch what you say, for we are sinners all, and judged equally by God.
I do not intend to cause any conflict here. If some of you are that offended, consider this my last post on anything political to do with the US or Iraq, Israel, Iran etc. I’m kicking the dust of my sandals and walking away from this one. Thank you to those of you who have been level headed and patient.
“History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen.” - Enoch Powell
I don’t know about any of the other characters on this forum that you’ve all had trouble with in the past, possibly for very good reasons, since I’m relatively new… and taking criticism is hard especially over topics concerning one’s ethnicity, religion or nationality. I have no problem if you criticize my country, we’re having a turmoil here over gay-marriage, so fire away. Criticism and others points of view are good to take into account.
I’m sorry if I angered you to this extent, it was never my intention. However I still stand by the things I’ve posted, and if you can show me where I’m wrong I don’t mind, however instead of intelligently criticising my points I’m simply being dismissed as anti-american? There is a lot going on in the world with censorship and avoidance of politically charged issues, especially with concern to Israel today, and it is NOT anti-semetic to criticize the policies of their government. I’ve seen many of you here not hesitate to criticize Arab countries or Sudan etc. which is all fine, they are much deserved, however, why this double standard? Even Pope John Paul the II who’s in a hospital right now never hesitated to tell any political figures what he thought.
Quite frankly if you’re trying to threathen members in this way simply for speaking their mind sincerely without insults or derogatory language as per the terms of service of this forum then it make hypocrites of your defense of democracy and the things America stands for, particularly something called rights, which are beautiful and unfortunately also subject to abuse.
I grew up in India, as a child I watched American films, mostly war films as well as cartoons like G.I. Joe etc. where we saw America as a brave country full of brave men and heroes and prosperous. Not simply myself but other children around me who lived in poverty, I was better off being average middle class, but my friends were amongst my own, amongst the wealthier and amongst the poorest of the poor, Catholics, Hindus and Muslims… Truly I can say I admired America and like most people abroad in 3rd world countries imagined the dream a lot of you share. However something terrible has happened, and it seems that your country is slinking further into a situation of which there may be no escape. I was simply trying to relate what is going on outside and why children abroad may never see you the same way again.
I have grown up during the times of Hindu/Muslim riots, I have seen violence, been in the vicinity of bombs and had a political figure assassinated right outside my school, I can still recall the day, hearing a loud shot and seeing the many crows flying into the air. I was of course a child at the time, a time where people were being killed in buses, men, women and children as well due to these religious wars that never settled since the time of Ghandi, and knowing the only thing that might protect me was a scapular of the sacred heart my mother put around my neck, so that perhaps when a muslim or hindu approached me with a machette and tore off my clothes to see if I was circumcised (which I am), he might spot it and not kill me, since it had nothing to do with Christians. The situation in Iraq I imagine is much much worse and perhaps I cannot imagine it, but I’ve lived through times that might reflect this, and I’m sensitive about out of hand remarks about Muslims or otherwise, NOT because I think their religion is somehow equal, my faith is as a Roman Catholic, and my faith is the true church under the authority of the pope and Holy See, the apostles, martyrs, prophets, heirarchies of angels, our Holy Mother in Heaven all under the authority of Jesus Christ, son of the most High God. However there is the hope of salvation outside the Church, verified in Scripture and I believe by Mary herself. So please watch what you say, for we are sinners all, and judged equally by God.
I do not intend to cause any conflict here. If some of you are that offended, consider this my last post on anything political to do with the US or Iraq, Israel, Iran etc. I’m kicking the dust of my sandals and walking away from this one. Thank you to those of you who have been level headed and patient.
“History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen.” - Enoch Powell
P
Peacemonger
Guest
Calling someone “anti-America” is a favorite slur used by conservatives. While I’ve lived in Japan for the past several years, I’ll be moving back to the states within the next one to three years, depending on how my business is doing, and I can’t wait! Yet, because I’ve been very critical of the Iraq war and the Bush administration, I’ve been called anti-American, ant-soldier, pro-Saddam, supporting terrorism, etc…While you can speak out against almost anything in America and not be labeled “anti-American” if you dare criticize our wars…then watch out!
L
Lisa4Catholics
Guest
Peace how would you feel if you saw someone belittle the holocaust?
C
chicago
Guest
Fitz,
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I’d like to see what some others think about this, also.
I don’t particularly care for people who like to get on their high horse and dwell upon perpetual rants, making a crusade out of it. I do think that merely ignoring them may ultimately be the best route as such types are usually seeking to get a charge and just draw attention to their platform, anyway. That said, I guess that I do get a bit concerned about some from the other end who can sometimes get overly defensive of any criticism (even when there may be a worthwhile perspective to be offered), unless such criticism or commetary is in agreement with one’s own biases.
As someone else already noted, this is primarily a Catholic discussion board. That might mean that certain things in American culture and our tendency to look at all things from an American worldview (or some ideology within that worldview) could well be challenged even from our very Catholic roots. If a leading light like Cardinal George can comment upon how we here in the States are all influenced by a longstanding Calvinist culture which imbues the American spirit, then perhaps there is at least something to be heard out.
What we have to be careful of is not believing so heavily in how necessarily “good” we must certainly be, that we subconsciously end up taking a “my country right or wrong - and we’re never wrong” attitude. For that goes beyond virtuistic patriotism to scandalous and corruptive nationalism. I’m one of the biggest U.S. patriots you’ll find. But I’m not a nationalist. As such, I’ll sometimes make interesting observations and critiques about America (even strongly and perhaps damningly so), noting where I do think that we have failed, are shortsighted or self-indulgent, parochial, and even bad. Though I like to also balance that, when I can, with a hopeful sense of how we can ultimately come through it for the better and find that this is also in our spirit. I try to recognize both sides in all of their brutal and ugly or upbuilding and beautiful honestly. We’re not always glorious saints. Certainly, we are’t all bad, either. We can’t go to extremes and be taken seriously. However, too often we are truly all too human sinners with weaknesses and faults. Offering a sugar coating doesn’t pull the wool over anybody’s eyes, and actually makes us look bad, if not decietful; seemingly living in a world of self denial, feel good propoganda. Admitting to our weaknesses, however, makes us stronger as it offers us integrity and gives us an opportunity to grow and change for the better. Of course, often we’ll disagree about just what the faults are and what is not a fault at all; possibly a virtue. So, in that, I suppose will be room for much debate.
In the end, then, if somebody wants to rant, I figure it might be best to just let them rant. It may be worthwhile to dialogue with them, when necessary and possible, but not to perpetually fight over essentially the same things to no end. If each party is interested in coming to a better understanding and forwarding some common interest, generally speaking, that’s good. But if all someone wants to do is win an argument, I don’t know if it is even very effective to explore this route. Besides, those people who will come around just to proselytize their perceived gospel and taunt their own boogeymen by throwing stones, then may well end up looking like the fool to the average and honest observer if we just let them.
I can hold my own in most arguments and will sometimes dedicate myself to a lengthy discussion. But I often find it worthwhile to just step back from such a debate and let it take care of itself. Often, you’ll be surprized at just how well it moves along without you involved. Make your point once, perhaps clarifying briefly, or rebutting genuinely new material if there’s something that you think needs to be said that hasn’t. But then let it drop. Otherwise, the whole mess (and a mess is what it often becomes) ends up as a self fullfilling and perpetuating nightmare, building steam upon itself rather than becoming diffused. God will take care of things, ultimately, it something truly needs to be addressed. Sometimes I think that certain people just enjoy fighting, however, and are almost scrupulously zealous about putting down their seeming enemy. I’m not sure how productive that is and wonder if it isn’t actually counterproductive more times than not. My experience, at least, tells me that it usually isn’t worth my time and I can find more important things to do, effecting better results, without too much trouble.
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I’d like to see what some others think about this, also.
I don’t particularly care for people who like to get on their high horse and dwell upon perpetual rants, making a crusade out of it. I do think that merely ignoring them may ultimately be the best route as such types are usually seeking to get a charge and just draw attention to their platform, anyway. That said, I guess that I do get a bit concerned about some from the other end who can sometimes get overly defensive of any criticism (even when there may be a worthwhile perspective to be offered), unless such criticism or commetary is in agreement with one’s own biases.
As someone else already noted, this is primarily a Catholic discussion board. That might mean that certain things in American culture and our tendency to look at all things from an American worldview (or some ideology within that worldview) could well be challenged even from our very Catholic roots. If a leading light like Cardinal George can comment upon how we here in the States are all influenced by a longstanding Calvinist culture which imbues the American spirit, then perhaps there is at least something to be heard out.
What we have to be careful of is not believing so heavily in how necessarily “good” we must certainly be, that we subconsciously end up taking a “my country right or wrong - and we’re never wrong” attitude. For that goes beyond virtuistic patriotism to scandalous and corruptive nationalism. I’m one of the biggest U.S. patriots you’ll find. But I’m not a nationalist. As such, I’ll sometimes make interesting observations and critiques about America (even strongly and perhaps damningly so), noting where I do think that we have failed, are shortsighted or self-indulgent, parochial, and even bad. Though I like to also balance that, when I can, with a hopeful sense of how we can ultimately come through it for the better and find that this is also in our spirit. I try to recognize both sides in all of their brutal and ugly or upbuilding and beautiful honestly. We’re not always glorious saints. Certainly, we are’t all bad, either. We can’t go to extremes and be taken seriously. However, too often we are truly all too human sinners with weaknesses and faults. Offering a sugar coating doesn’t pull the wool over anybody’s eyes, and actually makes us look bad, if not decietful; seemingly living in a world of self denial, feel good propoganda. Admitting to our weaknesses, however, makes us stronger as it offers us integrity and gives us an opportunity to grow and change for the better. Of course, often we’ll disagree about just what the faults are and what is not a fault at all; possibly a virtue. So, in that, I suppose will be room for much debate.
In the end, then, if somebody wants to rant, I figure it might be best to just let them rant. It may be worthwhile to dialogue with them, when necessary and possible, but not to perpetually fight over essentially the same things to no end. If each party is interested in coming to a better understanding and forwarding some common interest, generally speaking, that’s good. But if all someone wants to do is win an argument, I don’t know if it is even very effective to explore this route. Besides, those people who will come around just to proselytize their perceived gospel and taunt their own boogeymen by throwing stones, then may well end up looking like the fool to the average and honest observer if we just let them.
I can hold my own in most arguments and will sometimes dedicate myself to a lengthy discussion. But I often find it worthwhile to just step back from such a debate and let it take care of itself. Often, you’ll be surprized at just how well it moves along without you involved. Make your point once, perhaps clarifying briefly, or rebutting genuinely new material if there’s something that you think needs to be said that hasn’t. But then let it drop. Otherwise, the whole mess (and a mess is what it often becomes) ends up as a self fullfilling and perpetuating nightmare, building steam upon itself rather than becoming diffused. God will take care of things, ultimately, it something truly needs to be addressed. Sometimes I think that certain people just enjoy fighting, however, and are almost scrupulously zealous about putting down their seeming enemy. I’m not sure how productive that is and wonder if it isn’t actually counterproductive more times than not. My experience, at least, tells me that it usually isn’t worth my time and I can find more important things to do, effecting better results, without too much trouble.
S
stumbler
Guest
Peace, peace, peace.
This is exactly the kind of sloppy discourse that has made you (in)famous here.
“Favorite”? I’d like to see you back that one up.
All conservatives? (-- by implication since you did not qualify your slam at all).
Conservatives use many slurs? (-- since a “favorite” implies a conscious selection from multiple options).
Really, how many here have used that characterization to describe you? Or is this something that you experience in the off-line world as well? How do you know they are “conservative”? Does everyone that calls you “anti-American” wear a “Rush Limbaugh is my Hero” t-shirt?
Your brush is an itsy-bitsy-bit too broad to paint within the lines, methinks.
P
Peacemonger
Guest
I would think that person ignorant.
E
EDB
Guest
Fitz,
I think I understand your frustration. Some posters seem to only want to discuss the things we do wrong. Very rarely will you see them start a thread to discuss the positive things the US does.
It does get a little frustrating to hear constant criticism. This tactic rarely changes people, it just frustrates and annoys.
You can not change hearts and minds by constant criticism and accusations.
I personally, read these posts - by I don’t reply anymore. The people posting these threads do not appear to want to understand our point of view, they appear to want to force us agree with them.
I think I understand your frustration. Some posters seem to only want to discuss the things we do wrong. Very rarely will you see them start a thread to discuss the positive things the US does.
It does get a little frustrating to hear constant criticism. This tactic rarely changes people, it just frustrates and annoys.
You can not change hearts and minds by constant criticism and accusations.
I personally, read these posts - by I don’t reply anymore. The people posting these threads do not appear to want to understand our point of view, they appear to want to force us agree with them.
F
FightingFat
Guest
I think it’s a shame you guys feel that way.
When I look back at the threads on this forum, I see lots and lots and lots of threads, many on the same subjects started by two posters in particular, with a very pro-Bush, pro-war stance, many of them with no answers. Perhaps the more challenging threads are simply redressing the balance? Trying to give a more balanced world view? Offer some outside impressions?
When I look back at the threads on this forum, I see lots and lots and lots of threads, many on the same subjects started by two posters in particular, with a very pro-Bush, pro-war stance, many of them with no answers. Perhaps the more challenging threads are simply redressing the balance? Trying to give a more balanced world view? Offer some outside impressions?
N
Norwich
Guest
I agree this forum is riddled with biase. Just look at what we have:
- Most contributors are American.
- Most contributors are Republican.
- Most contributors are right wing
- Most contributors are anti Islamic
- Most contributors think the sun shines out of GB’s ****
- Most contributors hate anyone having an opinion other than theirs.
- Most contributors label anyone whop disagrees with them as Left Wing Liberals
R
romano
Guest
jdnation said:
Sounds like we’ve lost an interesting guy. Someone who actually knows how to spell too. Man, do I ever tire of hearing this meaningless smear-word “anti-semitic” bandied around. You folks ever hear the expression “herd mentality”?
F
FightingFat
Guest
Just as a for example-
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36664
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36660
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36650
Three threads here, all the same agenda, all posted one after another, all with no posts on 'em.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36664
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36660
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=36650
Three threads here, all the same agenda, all posted one after another, all with no posts on 'em.
S
StJeanneDArc
Guest
Norwich, I highlighted in red your bullet points that are ill-advised. Your first two are statements of fact that can be verified or refuted. My own impression is that you’re right about them. The third is kind of subjective, but along the generally accepted political spectrum I’ll accept the term right wing, as long as we define it as being pro-life, anti-big-government, pro-liberty (the classical meaning of “liberal”), pro-private-enterprise, pro-people.I agree this forum is riddled with biase. Just look at what we have:
Yep, I would say this forum is biased!!!
- Most contributors are American.
- Most contributors are Republican.
- Most contributors are right wing
- Most contributors are anti Islamic
- Most contributors think the sun shines out of GB’s ****
- Most contributors hate anyone having an opinion other than theirs.
- Most contributors label anyone whop disagrees with them as Left Wing Liberals
Now your last 4 points are just vitriolic. Do you really believe that of the posters here? How do you know what’s in their hearts? Don’t you think you’re being rather judgemental and intolerant?
B
bones_IV
Guest
Norwich, your ignorance is showing on the last four points. I’m a loyal catholic, and no we are not anti- islamic. The next point I morally offensive! Just because we disagree with their opinion, doesn’t mean we hate the person. You are you trying to kid. The last comment is absolutely dispicable. Shame on you! You call yourself christian?I agree this forum is riddled with biase. Just look at what we have:
Yep, I would say this forum is biased!!!
- Most contributors are American.
- Most contributors are Republican.
- Most contributors are right wing
- Most contributors are anti Islamic
- Most contributors think the sun shines out of GB’s ****
- Most contributors hate anyone having an opinion other than theirs.
- Most contributors label anyone whop disagrees with them as Left Wing Liberals
Padre Pio “The Rosary is the weapon.”
N
Norwich
Guest
Not anti Islamic. Look at the rhetoric in some of the posts, Islam is the curse of the Devil, Islam wants to kill us all, Islam will take over Europe, et al. Now if thats not anti Islamic what is it?
GB. Probably a poor choice of words (or asteriks if you wish) but, look at the thread regarding Hillary Clinton then tell me about moral offensiveness. Whether you agree with her or not she has a right to both her opinion and her right to espouse it. I have no doubt that if a Democrat was to attack GB in the same way there would be uproar. Same goes for Michael Moore.
The venom that sometimes comes back, particularly if one is seen to support Palestine or to criticise Israel is very unchristian.
Look through the posts and find out how many times someone who disagrees with others has been clasified as a “Liberal”. And, as you conceed the first three points, then the last has to be true.
I would also point out you have used the “inclusive” WE, I only used the “non inclusive” MOST. Mine doesn’t mean all, does yours?
Ohh… and having just looked again at what I have written, if you read “whop” it was a mispelled “who” (on a laptop the OP are too close together)
GB. Probably a poor choice of words (or asteriks if you wish) but, look at the thread regarding Hillary Clinton then tell me about moral offensiveness. Whether you agree with her or not she has a right to both her opinion and her right to espouse it. I have no doubt that if a Democrat was to attack GB in the same way there would be uproar. Same goes for Michael Moore.
The venom that sometimes comes back, particularly if one is seen to support Palestine or to criticise Israel is very unchristian.
Look through the posts and find out how many times someone who disagrees with others has been clasified as a “Liberal”. And, as you conceed the first three points, then the last has to be true.
I would also point out you have used the “inclusive” WE, I only used the “non inclusive” MOST. Mine doesn’t mean all, does yours?
Ohh… and having just looked again at what I have written, if you read “whop” it was a mispelled “who” (on a laptop the OP are too close together)
A
aimee
Guest
Come on Norwich… could you try and be a little more charmingI agree this forum is riddled with biase. Just look at what we have:
Yep, I would say this forum is biased!!!
- Most contributors are American.
- Most contributors are Republican.
- Most contributors are right wing
- Most contributors are anti Islamic
- Most contributors think the sun shines out of GB’s ****
- Most contributors hate anyone having an opinion other than theirs.
- Most contributors label anyone whop disagrees with them as Left Wing Liberals
N
Norwich
Guest
Thanks Aimee, we try, we try…Come on Norwich… could you try and be a little more charming
B
bones_IV
Guest
It would seem to me that you accuse most of the contributors of hating Islam which is a false accusation. I sincerely doubt that most of them are anti-islamic. I think you misunderstood, the words, curse of Devil, is in reference to the radical extremists not the peace loving muslims. Secondly, Hilary Clinton in my view is a heretic and a false prophet who continually decieves and misleads the American public with her Stalinist, Marxist views or should I say socialist views. She is an obstructor of justice. You, say most doesn’t mean all, don’t you think I know that. That fact you call most contributors anti-islamists is still biased. You say “The venom that comes back, particularly if one supports Palestine and criticize Israel is unchristian.” Are you saying that I support Palestine? No way! The government is a terrorist organization. You need to watch the news. I do not have bitter feelings towards Israel. Yes, its true that there is abuse on both sides, but I for one do not take sides. I hope they come to a peaceful solution. “Yep, this forum is baised,” seems to me you have a real hatred for mother church, given the baiseness of that statement.
Padre Pio “The Rosary is the weapon.”
Q
quijote
Guest
Yes I am (became one a year ago)
Although not affiliated with the party I did vote REpublican for President and Senator this past election
If the only choices are “right wing” or “left wing” I’ll take right wing
I’m not anti-Islamic, **I am **anti terrorist, Islamic or otherwise.
No comment (not true btw)
As I teach my boys: “Hate only the devil and his works”. I may disagree with you but I don’t hate you (don’t flatter yourself
)No. Some people might, but not most.
Cheers
- Status