Bible

[Lisa4Catholics]

Witness:

CERTAINLY It’s Author

Why didn’t the Lord wait until the humans determine a canon? When He answered Satan, He quoted from the OT as if He has authority to determine the Canon!!! Didn’t He know that the Jews had not determined a Canon yet???

:yup:

So you don’t recognise the New Testament although you quote it,rather convienatly to attack other Christians,for what you and your preconcieved judgements are and use them as if you are God to cast stones:tsktsk: Not real Christ like:nope: Any one can pick and choose scripture to support their own positions,but only One Church has the Authority to do so and it has been here for 2000 years,and you certainly won’t bring it down

 

[Witness]

Lisa4Catholics:

So you don’t recognise the New Testament although you quote it,rather convienatly to attack other Christians,for what you and your preconcieved judgements are and use them as if you are God to cast stones:tsktsk: Not real Christ like:nope: Any one can pick and choose scripture to support their own positions,but only One Church has the Authority to do so and it has been here for 2000 years,and you certainly won’t bring it down

Seems you don’t know that you are a member of that Church. Did anyone ask you anything when taking decisions?

 

[martino]

Seems you don’t know that you are a member of that Church. Did anyone ask you anything when taking decisions?

Witness, you seem to be very confident in your position regarding the Canon of Scripture, which could either be good or bad, depends on whether or not you are right. How sure are you? I mean would you say that you are absolutely certain of this? Would you go as far as to say that you are certain to the point of infallibility? If so, then you just claimed a charism that you have already denied the existence of.

If you are not 100% certain, they you are behaving rather irresponsibly by pretending to know for certain things that you would admit you cannot and do not know for sure.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Seems you don’t know that you are a member of that Church. Did anyone ask you anything when taking decisions?

I am a member of the One Holy Catholic Church,started by Jesus and continued through the succesors of the apostles.The gates of hell will not prevail against it and neither will you

 

[Witness]

martino:

Witness, you seem to be very confident in your position regarding the Canon of Scripture, which could either be good or bad, depends on whether or not you are right. How sure are you? I mean would you say that you are absolutely certain of this? Would you go as far as to say that you are certain to the point of infallibility? If so, then you just claimed a charism that you have already denied the existence of.

If you are not 100% certain, they you are behaving rather irresponsibly by pretending to know for certain things that you would admit you cannot and do not know for sure.

God is more than sure about what He is telling us. And He told me. And as I believe Him, so I am sure, although I don’t know everything, and although I am nothing.

:tiphat:

 

[martino]

Witness:

God is more than sure about what He is telling us. And He told me. And as I believe Him, so I am sure, although I don’t know everything, and although I am nothing.

:tiphat:

So God told you Himself? So even though you deny that God has told anything of the sortto the Catholic Church, you admit that He does in fact tell “you” what is and what is not in regards to Scripture…very interesting! God would certainly not mislead you which would mean that He has given you the gift of infallibility, at least on this one issue. That also means that anyone who has a different position that you is wrong to the extent that theirs differs from yours. My only question then is why do you hesitate to claim this gift God has given and call it what it is… INFALLIBILITY?

 

[mtr01]

Witness:
:clapping: Bravo!!! 0/100 in understanding the Bible.

The Bible didn’t come down from heaven like the Moslems say about the Koran! So we can read about human experience in it. But this doesn’t mean that we will find human weakness in the Word of God, as we find in the non-canonical books.

You call into question my understanding and yet you contradict yourself right from the get-go!

You say that we don’t find human weakness in the word of God? I would say that a lack of memory by St. Paul certainly is a human weakness (unless you believe God has a bad memory)…much more so than an author saying that he hopes his summary of history is well-written and entertaining to the reader.

Witness:
Paul is not saying that he doesn’t know if what he wrote is well or not, like the Maccabees. Paul is saying that him, a weak human, cannot remember for sure if he baptized anyone else.

I don’t know what you mean by “if what he wrote is well”. I do know that here you say St. Paul is demonstrating human weakness. However, just above you said:

Witness:

But this doesn’t mean that we will find human weakness in the Word of God, as we find in the non-canonical books

So then by your own admission, since there is no human weakness in the Word of God, and Paul demonstrates that he is a weak human in his epistle, his epistle is therefore not the Word of God.

Witness:
Paul did never know anything about you and me, but this doesn’t mean that he didn’t know that what he wrote is Word of God.

I don’t understand, so it is the Word of God, but it isn’t the Word of God? Your logic, unfortunately, doesn’t work. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the the author of 2 Maccabees does not know that he is writing the word of God. Certainly a comment concerning his writing ability doesn’t negate that possibility…even less so than Paul’s lack of memory.

Witness:
:yup: People who don’t want to believe God and want to compare the Holy Word of God to words of men! I WITNESS.
Actually no, what I am witnessing is someone who through their his hardness of heart and disbelief considers the Word of God to be the words of men. Truly tragic

 

[Church_Militant]

Do you think that those who preach sola scriptura come very close to worshipping the Bible as opposed to the God it speaks of?

 

[Psalm45_9]

*Tobias
(=Tobit) used magic, the heart, liver, and gall of a fish, to drive away a demon.

The Bible says we are not to use magic.

It wasn’t magic, the angel used matter. Did you know that the gall of the fish is recorded medicine in the ancient times? If you object to the angel using mater to heal, then you will also object to Our Lord using mud to heal a blind man.

*An angel of God lies and claims to be Azarius son of Ananias.

The Bible teaches that we must not lie.

Remember the story is a parable:

The Angel did not lie. What does Raphael mean? “Medicine of God” What does Azarius mean? “God Helps.” What does Ananias mean? “God is merciful” The Angle is giving clues to who he is, a wink to the reader. Tobit then said that he knew knew Ananias (God is merciful) and Jathan, which means “God gives” and that they are to two sons of Shemiah, which means, “God hears”

PARABLE ALL THE WAY!!!

I prefer the Word of God who does never contradict Himself.

I witness.
Me too, the compleate Word of God.

 

[Psalm45_9]

DO NOT REMEMBER THE DEAD. YOU CANNOT DO ANY GOOD TO THEM

“Do not forget, there is no coming back;
you do the dead no good, and you injure yourself.
“Remember my doom, for yours is like it:
yesterday it was mine, and today it is yours.”
When the dead is at rest, let his remembrance cease,
and be comforted for him when his spirit is departed.” ( Sirach 38:21-23 )

NO, OOPS, SORRY, I MEAN REMEMBER THE DEAD, AND EVEN PRAY FOR THEM
“For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.” ( 2 Maccabees 12:44 )

:clapping:

Of course we should forget the dead, because if you mourn over your lose of them, then your life will never continue. But if you rejoice because God has called them home and you remember all the good things they did in their life, then their memory can bring you closer to God. No contridicitions.

 

[Psalm45_9]

YAQUBOS:

This is what we are saying! As this human writer is the author of these lines, so he has to be humble and say that he doesn’t know and that this is ALL HE COULD DO! But God talks with power and authority!

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Jdisciple:

I shake the dust off my feet.

The Lord bless you all!

I leave you with the following Scripture text

Witness:

Bravo!!! 0/100 in understanding the Bible.

The Bible didn’t come down from heaven like the Moslems say about the Koran! So we can read about human experience in it. But this doesn’t mean that we will find human weakness in the Word of God, as we find in the non-canonical books.

Paul is not saying that he doesn’t know if what he wrote is well or not, like the Maccabees. Paul is saying that him, a weak human, cannot remember for sure if he baptized anyone else.

Paul did never know anything about you and me, but this doesn’t mean that he didn’t know that what he wrote is Word of God.

People who don’t want to believe God and want to compare the Holy Word of God to words of men! I WITNESS.

Psalm45:9:

Let’s see:

1. Writing in broken English
2. Emphasis on things which he does not agree with must be philosophy
3. Continual use of smileys.

1. Continually bringing up the Koran
2. Continually bringing up Muslims
3. Answering questions directed to YAQUBOS while speaking in the first person.
   Sounds like YAQUBOS…

Who if I recall said he was shaking off the dust and was leaving us.

Witness:

The Bible teaches that we must not lie.

 

[Maccabees]

DO NOT REMEMBER THE DEAD. YOU CANNOT DO ANY GOOD TO THEM

“Do not forget, there is no coming back;
you do the dead no good, and you injure yourself.
“Remember my doom, for yours is like it:
yesterday it was mine, and today it is yours.”
When the dead is at rest, let his remembrance cease,
and be comforted for him when his spirit is departed.” ( Sirach 38:21-23 )

NO, OOPS, SORRY, I MEAN REMEMBER THE DEAD, AND EVEN PRAY FOR THEM
“For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.” ( 2 Maccabees 12:44 )

:clapping:

The dead have no further reward they die and are forgotten
****Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living know that they will die,

but the **dead know nothing; **

**they have no further reward, **

and even the memory of them is forgotten.

OOPs they will have a resurrection and reward or suffer everlasting contempt. The righteous like the stars shine forever.

Daniel 12:2-3

2"(A)Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, (**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/#cen-NASB-22084B”))these to **everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. **

3"Those who have (C)insight will (D)shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who (E)lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

We can play these little reindeer games with scriptures all day long.:banghead:

This adds credence to the fact that since scripture can seemingly contradict itself that we need a church to interpret it.

Scripture alone is subscription for confusion and selective quotation.

 

[Witness]

martino:

So God told you Himself? So even though you deny that God has told anything of the sortto the Catholic Church, you admit that He does in fact tell “you” what is and what is not in regards to Scripture…very interesting! God would certainly not mislead you which would mean that He has given you the gift of infallibility, at least on this one issue. That also means that anyone who has a different position that you is wrong to the extent that theirs differs from yours. My only question then is why do you hesitate to claim this gift God has given and call it what it is… INFALLIBILITY?

Oups! Sorry, I forgot that you don’t believe the Bible is the Word of God in which God talks to each one of us… I forgot that you don’t believe God when He talks to you in His Word. That’s why you suppose that I must have a supernatural power to be sure BY FAITH about what He reveals to me and you.

:tiphat:

 

[Witness]

mtr01:
You call into question my understanding and yet you contradict yourself right from the get-go!

You say that we don’t find human weakness in the word of God? I would say that a lack of memory by St. Paul certainly is a human weakness (unless you believe God has a bad memory)…much more so than an author saying that he hopes his summary of history is well-written and entertaining to the reader.

I don’t know what you mean by “if what he wrote is well”. I do know that here you say St. Paul is demonstrating human weakness. However, just above you said:

So then by your own admission, since there is no human weakness in the Word of God, and Paul demonstrates that he is a weak human in his epistle, his epistle is therefore not the Word of God.

I don’t understand, so it is the Word of God, but it isn’t the Word of God? Your logic, unfortunately, doesn’t work. Furthermore, you have not demonstrated the the author of 2 Maccabees does not know that he is writing the word of God. Certainly a comment concerning his writing ability doesn’t negate that possibility…even less so than Paul’s lack of memory.

Actually no, what I am witnessing is someone who through their his hardness of heart and disbelief considers the Word of God to be the words of men. Truly tragic
Here is the whole problem with you, my friend: you don’t know what is the place of human elements in the Scripture.

David committed a big sin, but when he wrote about it in his Psalm, he was writing the INFALLIBLE Word of God.

Paul didn’t remember, but he was sure that what he wrote was infallibly Word of God.

Jesus didn’t know if there are fruits in the tree, but he was not less than God. When He spoke, He didn’t say that He is not sure if what He says is right and well, and that this is all what He could say!

While the author of Maccabees declares clearly that he is not a prophet, and that this is all what HE HIMSELF could do.

Ok. I will not give lessons now in human elements in the Scripture. I know that RC need to know the basicas yet.

 

[martino]

Witness:

Oups! Sorry, I forgot that you don’t believe the Bible is the Word of God in which God talks to each one of us… I forgot that you don’t believe God when He talks to you in His Word. That’s why you suppose that I must have a supernatural power to be sure BY FAITH about what He reveals to me and you.

:tiphat:

Witness, I do not deny that God can do that, actually I thought it was you that denied God speaks to His Church. What you want me to believe is that God does not speak through the Church but He does speak directly to you in regards to what is or is not Scripture. So your saying that through your reading of Scripture, God spoke and gave you the canon of Scripture and that is when it was revealed to you that the Catholic Church does not have the correct canon. I am just trying to get this all straight.

What would you say if I told you that God has told me that the Protestant Bible is missing books. Its too easy to say “God told me”, that is no arguement… i certainly wouldn’t go into a Protestant website trying to prove Catholicism by saying “God told me directly!” The problem with that arguement is that all the Protestant Churches claim that the Holy Spirit leads them in their beliefs, but somehow that manage to disagree with what the Holy Spirit is telling them. He seems to say one thing to this person and another thing to that one. Now either the Holy Spirit has a multiple personality disorder or you guys are actually leading yourselves and claiming it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Which one among you is right among so many bad? You say its you because God told you, but tell me how I am to believe what you say and not what someone else says!!! What an utter mess this thing becomes without the guidance of the true Mother Church, who was given the authority to answer all these questions that you cannot answer for yourself.

 

[Witness]

martino:

Witness, I do not deny that God can do that, actually I thought it was you that denied God speaks to His Church. What you want me to believe is that God does not speak through the Church but He does speak directly to you in regards to what is or is not Scripture. So your saying that through your reading of Scripture, God spoke and gave you the canon of Scripture and that is when it was revealed to you that the Catholic Church does not have the correct canon. I am just trying to get this all straight.

What would you say if I told you that God has told me that the Protestant Bible is missing books. Its too easy to say “God told me”, that is no arguement… i certainly wouldn’t go into a Protestant website trying to prove Catholicism by saying “God told me directly!” The problem with that arguement is that all the Protestant Churches claim that the Holy Spirit leads them in their beliefs, but somehow that manage to disagree with what the Holy Spirit is telling them. He seems to say one thing to this person and another thing to that one. Now either the Holy Spirit has a multiple personality disorder or you guys are actually leading yourselves and claiming it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Which one among you is right among so many bad? You say its you because God told you, but tell me how I am to believe what you say and not what someone else says!!! What an utter mess this thing becomes without the guidance of the true Mother Church, who was given the authority to answer all these questions that you cannot answer for yourself.

God speaks to me through the Church??? :yup: It’s evident! You don’t know what is the Church. You think it’s just the Bishops. So you think I am something OUTSIDE the Church, and God will use the Church to talk to me…

That’s what they told you.

And you talk about the RC Church, as if there are not other churches. Again: you don’t know what is the Church.

And you talk about me as if I am protestant, again proving that you don’t have any idea about what the Church is, and how the Church is one.

I told you: you need the basics.

 

[Witness]

Church Militant:

Do you think that those who preach sola scriptura come very close to worshipping the Bible as opposed to the God it speaks of?

Do you think that those who preach against the sole authority of God come very close to worshipping those who, as they think, have the sole authority to interpret what God says to each one of us?

 

[Witness]

The dead have no further reward they die and are forgotten
Ecclesiastes 9:5
5 For the living know that they will die,

but the **dead know nothing; **

**they have no further reward, **

and even the memory of them is forgotten.

OOPs they will have a resurrection and reward or suffer everlasting contempt. The righteous like the stars shine forever.

Daniel 12:2-3

2"(A)Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, (**(“http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/#cen-NASB-22084B”))these to **everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. **

3"Those who have (C)insight will (D)shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who (E)lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

We can play these little reindeer games with scriptures all day long.:banghead:

This adds credence to the fact that since scripture can seemingly contradict itself that we need a church to interpret it.

Scripture alone is subscription for confusion and selective quotation.

The dead can do nothing after they are dead. They cannot work or suffer for their Salvation, because no reward for them after death. RC pray to them, but they cannot know about what they are praying

But a day will come, when they will all rise and have a reward THEN.

But we can’t say that we must not remember the dead, and then say No we must remember them and even pray for them. Those ideas of humans make me laugh.

And blinds want to compare them to the Holy Word of God. :crying:

 

[mtr01]

Here is the whole problem with you, my friend: you don’t know what is the place of human elements in the Scripture.

David committed a big sin, but when he wrote about it in his Psalm, he was writing the INFALLIBLE Word of God.

Paul didn’t remember, but he was sure that what he wrote was infallibly Word of God.

Well explain this to me, Pope Witness of the Church of Divine Revelation to Witness Only: how is it that you say God’s infallible Word does not contain human weakness, then say Paul was writing from human weakness, and still maintain that Paul knew he was writing God’s infallible Word?

Seems to me that this “understanding” you claim to have concerning Divine Revelation is riddled with contradictions…so much so that your interpretation cannot be taken seriously.

Witness:

Jesus didn’t know if there are fruits in the tree, but he was not less than God. When He spoke, He didn’t say that He is not sure if what He says is right and well, and that this is all what He could say!

While the author of Maccabees declares clearly that he is not a prophet, and that this is all what HE HIMSELF could do.

Ahh back to the old argument that Scripture must be written by a prophet, I see. I think that Psalm 45:9 pretty much took answered that particular claim. Be that as it may, you have still failed to demonstrate that the author, in stating that he hoped his condensed history (from 5 books to 1) was pleasing in style somehow “declares clearly that he is not a prophet”.

Witness:

Ok. I will not give lessons now in human elements in the Scripture. I know that RC need to know the basicas yet.

Probably a good idea, since your argument concerning St. Paul is clearly self-contradictory. You might want to iron out your man-made arguments before you try to teach the Church Christ founded how to interpret his word

 

[martino]

God speaks to me through the Church??? :yup: It’s evident! You don’t know what is the Church. You think it’s just the Bishops. So you think I am something OUTSIDE the Church, and God will use the Church to talk to me…

If you are not Catholic

That’s what they told you.

And you talk about the RC Church, as if there are not other churches. Again: you don’t know what is the Church.

And you talk about me as if I am protestant, again proving that you don’t have any idea about what the Church is, and how the Church is one.

I told you: you need the basics.