Bible

[mtr01]

JDisciple:

This is what we are saying! As this human writer is the author of these lines, so he has to be humble and say that he doesn’t know and that this is ALL HE COULD DO! But God talks with power and authority!

In Love,
Yaqubos†

Ah, Yaqubos, I see you deceitfully circumvented your suspension. Be that as it may, I don’t understand your hangup about this phrase in Maccabees. After all, didn’t St. Paul say:

1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanus. Besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.

Since, by your words, God talks with power and authority, your position implies one of two things: a) God didn’t remember if Paul baptized anyone else, or b) Paul’s writings were not really inspired by God, and are just human writings.

I think we both agree that “a)” is not the case. However, if you reject Maccabees for the reasons you state, then you must also reject this letter of Paul’s based on the same reasons and accept “b)”.

I would like to see you reconcile this obvious contradiction.

 

[Church_Militant]

“The apocryphal books contain errors. For example, “On the third day thou didst command the waters to be gathered together in the seventh part of the earth; six parts thou didst dry up and keep so that some of them might be planted and cultivated and be of service before thee” (II Esdras 6:42 RSV). The Book of Judith (1:1) states that “the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, who ruled over the Assyrians in the great city of Nineveh.” Nebuchadnezzar was not king of Nineveh but of the Neo-Babylonian Empire (Edersheim, op. cit, 1:126). Wisdom of Solomon (11:17) states that God “created the world out of formless matter.” Tobit and Judith contain many historical, chronological, and geographical errors.”
INTERESTING!!! And they say God said this…

Read this:

bibleteachings.org/apocrypha.html

His link is a Menonite website and the guy, Leland Haines, is who he’s quoting from. The guy ignores all sorts of evidence about the Deuterocanonicals, and even denies that this is the version that Jesus and the apostles used. His scholarship is poor since he makes a lot of statements without citing any sources for his info and he ignores the fact that Protestant scholars Gleason Archer and G.C. Chirichigno, in their book Old Testament Quotations in the New Testament: A Complete Survey (Moody Press 1983) where they show that out of the 373 times that the OT is quoted in the NT, some 340 (Over 90%) are from the Septuagint, but only 33 are from the Hebrew canon. I cite this from Beginning Apologetics #7 from our friends at San Juan Catholic Seminars, page 11 catholicapologetics.com/
Pax vobiscum

 

[Church_Militant]

Witness:

I prefer the Bible.

I prefer the WHOLE Bible…the one that Jesus and the apostles used and that the church has used for over 2,000 years. The one with all the books in it. Not the one that was edited 487 years ago by people who were insubmissive to the authorites set over them in the church and didn’t have the common decency and courage to stick it out and fix the problems that existed at that time. They took the same path that non-Cathoics take to this day. “If things don’t suit me, I’ll go where they do. If, not, I’ll found my own churches based on what I think is the truth and to hell with anyone who doesn’t agree…even the church fathers, the apostles close disciples, and all those who God put over me in the Body of Christ.” Ever hear a non-Catholic preacher preach about “spiritual covering”? Better check it out… Pax vobiscum

http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/AN878.gif

 

[Psalm45_9]

Witness:

Wisdom Of Solomon 8.19-20 teaches the pre-existence of the soul and reincarnation:

"As a child I was by nature well endowed,

and a good soul fell to my lot;

or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body."

No, I prefer the teaching of the Bible. I witness.

To the naked eye, pre-existence of souls is insinuated, but let’s take a closer look at the passages:

"As a child I was by nature well endowed,

and a good soul fell to my lot." (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19)

Let’s see what the King James Bible says:

“For I was a witty child, and had a good spirit. Yea rather, being good, I came into a body undefiled.” (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20)

(Verse 19 does not imply that he had a pre-existing soul, the author is referring to his childhood)

“My lot” means by chance (from the author’s point of view, since no one can explain why some people learn better then others). From the author’s point of view, by lot, God made the author with a good disposition, in this case, the ability to learn/ obtaining wisdom. The author is basically saying, “As a child I was well talented, and by chance, God gave me the privilege of obtaining wisdom.”

We continue:

“Or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body.” (Wisdom of Solomon 8:20)

Being that his soul was good, he was born with a better disposition, in this case, learning/ obtaining wisdom.

Let’s look at another scripture passage:

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you**, and before you were born I consecrated you**; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

God knew Jeremiah before he was formed in the womb, it does not mean that Jeremiah had a pre-existing soul, it is the same with the author of Wisdom. God knew the author beforehand, not that he had a pre-existing soul, for God also knew Jeremiah beforehand and He knew what Jeremiah was going to be like. God knew beforehand that the soul of the author would be good and because of this, he created a fitting body for this soul that was to be created. The undefiled part refers to a body free from any blemishes against this wisdom (a physical or mental handicaps) not a body free from original sin.

 

[Psalm45_9]

Witness:

Wisdom Of Solomon 8.19-20 teaches the pre-existence of the soul and reincarnation:

"As a child I was by nature well endowed,

and a good soul fell to my lot;

or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body."

No, I prefer the teaching of the Bible. I witness.

To the naked eye pre-existence of souls is insinuated, but let’s take a closer look at the passages:

"As a child I was by nature well endowed,

and a good soul fell to my lot." (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19)

Let’s see what the King James Bible says:

“For I was a witty child, and had a good spirit. Yea rather, being good, I came into a body undefiled.” (Wisdom of Solomon 8:19-20)

(Verse 19 does not imply that he had a pre-existing soul, the author is referring to his childhood)

“My lot” means by chance (from the author’s point of view, since no one can explain why some people learn better then others). From the author’s point of view, by lot, God made the author with a good disposition, in this case, the ability to learn/ obtaining wisdom. The author is basically saying, “As a child I was well talented, and by chance, God gave me the privilege of obtaining wisdom.”

We continue:

“Or rather, being good, I entered an undefiled body.” (Wisdom of Solomon 8:20)

Being that his soul was good, he was born with a better disposition, in this case, learning/ obtaining wisdom.

Let’s look at another scripture passage: “Before I formed you in the womb I knew you**, and before you were born I consecrated you**; I appointed you a prophet to the nations.” (Jeremiah 1:5)

Well if God knew Jeremiah before he was born, it is the same with the author of Wisdom. God knew him beforehand, not that he had a pre-existing soul, for God also knew Jeremiah beforehand and He knew what Jeremiah was going to be like. God knew beforehand that the soul of the author would be good and because of this, he created a fitting body for this soul that was to be created. In other words, God focused on how the soul should be created first and how the body should be created latter before he finally created the human being. The undefiled part refers to a body free from any blemishes against this wisdom (a physical or mental handicap) not a body free from original sin.

 

[Witness]

DO NOT REMEMBER THE DEAD. YOU CANNOT DO ANY GOOD TO THEM

“Do not forget, there is no coming back;
you do the dead no good, and you injure yourself.
“Remember my doom, for yours is like it:
yesterday it was mine, and today it is yours.”
When the dead is at rest, let his remembrance cease,
and be comforted for him when his spirit is departed.” ( Sirach 38:21-23 )

NO, OOPS, SORRY, I MEAN REMEMBER THE DEAD, AND EVEN PRAY FOR THEM
“For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead.” ( 2 Maccabees 12:44 )

:clapping:

 

[Witness]

mtr01:

Be that as it may, I don’t understand your hangup about this phrase in Maccabees. After all, didn’t St. Paul say:

1Co 1:16

And I baptized also the household of Stephanus. Besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. Since, by your words, God talks with power and authority, your position implies one of two things: a) God didn’t remember if Paul baptized anyone else, or b) Paul’s writings were not really inspired by God, and are just human writings.

I think we both agree that “a)” is not the case. However, if you reject Maccabees for the reasons you state, then you must also reject this letter of Paul’s based on the same reasons and accept “b)”.

I would like to see you reconcile this obvious contradiction.

:clapping: Bravo!!! 0/100 in understanding the Bible.

The Bible didn’t come down from heaven like the Moslems say about the Koran! So we can read about human experience in it. But this doesn’t mean that we will find human weakness in the Word of God, as we find in the non-canonical books.

Paul is not saying that he doesn’t know if what he wrote is well or not, like the Maccabees. Paul is saying that him, a weak human, cannot remember for sure if he baptized anyone else.

Paul did never know anything about you and me, but this doesn’t mean that he didn’t know that what he wrote is Word of God.

:yup: People who don’t want to believe God and want to compare the Holy Word of God to words of men! I WITNESS.

 

[Witness]

*Tobias (=Tobit) used magic, the heart, liver, and gall of a fish, to drive away a demon.

The Bible says we are not to use magic.

*An angel of God lies and claims to be Azarius son of Ananias.

The Bible teaches that we must not lie.

I prefer the Word of God who does never contradict Himself.

I witness.

 

[Witness]

Ecclesiasticus 33.26-28 tells us that it is fine to *torture your servants. *Again, I quote:

"A yoke and a collar do bow the neck; so are tortures and torments for an evil servant. Send him to labour that he be not idle; for idleness teacheth much evil. Set him to work, as is fit for him: if he be not obedient, put on more heavy fetters…"

In the New Testament Book of Philemon Paul begs the owner of the runaway slave Onesimus to be charitable, to receive him back as a newly converted Christian, but not to beat or punish him. Paul tells Philemon:
Philemon 1:10-16 "I beseech thee for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten in my bonds: Which in time past was to thee unprofitable, but now profitable to thee and to me: Whom I have sent again: thou therefore receive him, that is, mine own bowels: Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered unto me in the bonds of the gospel: But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly. For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever; Not now as a servant, but above a servant, a brother beloved, specially to me, but how much more unto thee, both in the flesh, and in the Lord? "

Which sounds more like God’s Word to you? Beat the runaway slave, torture him, or receive him back in love as a brother?

Ecclesiasticus bears the mark of the world, not of the Word.

Let’s beat our servants, because words of men say this, and RC accept it as divine.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

*Tobias
(=Tobit) used magic, the heart, liver, and gall of a fish, to drive away a demon.

The Bible says we are not to use magic.

*An angel of God lies and claims to be Azarius son of Ananias.

The Bible teaches that we must not lie.

I prefer the Word of God who does never contradict Himself.

I witness.

I witness with God all things are possible,including you being wrong God Bless

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Witness:

Let’s beat our servants, because words of men say this, and RC accept it as divine.

Your not doing a good job,the satanist do a much better job mocking Christs’ Church

 

[Witness]

Lisa4Catholics:

I witness with God all things are possible,including you being wrong God Bless

It seems that according to you contradictions are also possible to God.

:tsktsk: Then what it means to be God?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Witness:

It seems that according to you contradictions are also possible to God.

:tsktsk: Then what it means to be God?

Did I strike a cord? Or have you allowed God to run things again?:tsktsk: He did just fine before the King James version of the Bible You like to pick and choose what you believe to suit your own ideas then come in here not to learn but to try to convert people to your interpretation,which you haven’t been given authority to do:tsktsk: So get mad if you want God Bless and I will pray for you

 

[Witness]

Lisa4Catholics:

Your not doing a good job,the satanist do a much better job mocking Christs’ Church

Mocking false prophets, like Elijah:

"And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."

---

"And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under."

---

"And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked."

---

Those words of men make me laugh with their contradictions. I didn’t write anything yet about their geographic errors. Maybe you would be surprised to find out that Rome is in the Philippines. :whacky:

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Witness:

Mocking false prophets, like Elijah:

"And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."

"And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under."

"And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked."

Those words of men make me laugh with their contradictions. I didn’t write anything yet about their geographic errors. Maybe you would be surprised to find out that Rome is in the Philippines. :whacky:

You would know about Baal is that who you follow?The Catholic Church follows Jesus You ought to get to know him He is very loving and just.He also knows people hearts like you claim you can do

 

[Witness]

Lisa4Catholics:

You would know about Baal is that who you follow?The Catholic Church follows Jesus You ought to get to know him He is very loving and just.He also knows people hearts like you claim you can do

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

---

Declaring words of men as Word of God is one of those works of iniquity.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Declaring words of men as Word of God is one of those works of iniquity.

Isn’t it interesting that the devil used scripture to tempt Christ

 

[Witness]

Lisa4Catholics:

Isn’t it interesting that the devil used scripture to tempt Christ

And isn’t it interesting that the Lord answered with Scripture?

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Witness:

And isn’t it interesting that the Lord answered with Scripture?

Who has the authority to interperate scripture?Who put it in canon?Certainly NOT Martin Luther

 

[Witness]

Lisa4Catholics:

Who has the authority to interperate scripture?Who put it in canon?Certainly NOT Martin Luther

CERTAINLY It’s Author

Why didn’t the Lord wait until the humans determine a canon? When He answered Satan, He quoted from the OT as if He has authority to determine the Canon!!! Didn’t He know that the Jews had not determined a Canon yet???

:yup: