Biden warns 'we're likely to lose another 250,000' Americans from coronavirus 'between now and January'

[sallybutler]

What I think (and sorry if I wasn’t clear) is that you don’t like any of the rules around wearing a mask, staying six feet apart, or any other things a city, county, state, federal, or other municipality puts in place around this disease. I also think that you don’t follow any of those rules unless you have to to get what you want (food, electronic toy, new tractor, clothes, pizza, or other consumer goods).

Is that clearer?

 

[Cathoholic]

What I think (and sorry if I wasn’t clear) is that you don’t like any of the rules around wearing a mask, staying six feet apart, or any other things a city, county, state, federal, or other municipality puts in place around this disease.

I’m all for them if used correctly and CHOSEN by the individual.

It must be known though, that this is still mere mitigation.

If you are out and about, you WILL eventually get colds, the flu (which kills MORE youths than corona virus), corona, RSV, etc. Mask or no mask.

“Proper” mitigation is important too. A “mask” hanging from rear-view mirrors for weeks and getting re-used frequently does more harm than good . . . But it gets you in the store.

The truth is, there is not even a definition of what constitues a “mask”.

These are PARTS of the reasons you cannot effectively mandate this.

.

I also think that you don’t follow any of those rules unless you have to to get what you want (food, electronic toy, new tractor, clothes, pizza, or other consumer goods).

You have no idea what I do.

 

[sallybutler]

You have no idea what I do

I told you what I believe. You have chosen to not tell us what you do so I get to infer what I want to do.

 

[Cathoholic]

You have chosen to not

You are no conflating with what I personally do or do not do with what my opinions are here. A very specific opinion in a very specific area that I EXPLICITLY told you what I think.

Here it is again.

Biden warns 'we're likely to lose another 250,000' Americans from coronavirus 'between now and January' World News

I’m all for them if used correctly and CHOSEN by the individual. It must be known though, that this is still mere mitigation. If you are out and about, you WILL eventually get colds, the flu (which kills MORE youths than corona virus), corona, RSV, etc. Mask or no mask. “Proper” mitigation is important too. A “mask” hanging from rear-view mirrors for weeks and getting re-used frequently does more harm than good . . . But it gets you in the store. The truth is, there is not even a definit…

Biden warns 'we're likely to lose another 250,000' Americans from coronavirus 'between now and January' - #186 by Cathoholic

You have no idea what I personally do or don’t do (other than me telling you).

You are wrong about what you think concerning me personally too.

I really wish I had just ignored your inquiry in the first place.

 

[sleepysam]

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I think Biden is lowballing. We’re just beginning to see the effects of Thanksgiving travel and gatherings. Another 250K deaths by Christmas shouldn’t be surprising and 300K by January is more likely.

 

[Cathoholic]

shouldn’t be surprising and 300K by January is more likely.

All this despite . . .

• Quarantining HEALTHY people
• Masking-up
• Social Distancing.

.

But at least we got to inflict economic harm upon ourselves and others.

 

[sleepysam]

Masking, quarantining, and social distancing never happened in a meaningful way in the US.

There is no social safety support in the United States, so too many people in public-facing jobs had to keep working to feed themselves and their families. Most people, including small business owners, are nine meals and one paycheck away from hunger and homelessness, so they’re forced to leave their homes. And the affluent feel entitled to the services provided by the poor and working class, and generally don’t care who gets sick, dies, end up with a lifetime of medical problems and hospital bills so long as they can eat out, exercise, and get their nails done.

Political leaders encouraged us to sacrifice our kids and our grandparents for the economy. Junior and grandma are takers, not makers anyway, amiright?

Religious leaders told their followers that faith and Jesus would protect them from the virus to keep the weekly services (i.e., tithes) coming in.

Social media allowed every psychopath and quack with an internet connection to promote anti-lockdown and anti-mask ideas. And there’s so much anti-science and anti-intellectualism in the US that these their ideas are given equal (sometimes more) weight as the information coming from actual epidemiologists and virologists.

The pandemic has brought into sharp focus just how broken the US is and every level by every human metric. It’s a safe and comfortable place for less than 10% of the population. The rest of us are disposable. Basically the virus has won, and we have allowed it to.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The pandemic has brought into sharp focus just how broken the US is and every level by every human metric. It’s a safe and comfortable place for less than 10% of the population. The rest of us are disposable. Basically the virus has won, and we have allowed it to.

I think you should try to live in Cuba or Haiti. It might open your eyes a bit.

 

[Cathoholic]

Masking, quarantining, and social distancing never happened in a meaningful way in the US.

That’s just wrong.

CDC Study: 85% of Coronavirus Patients Reported Wearing Masks ‘Always’ or ‘Often’ World News

When are you going to give pretending you know what he meant other than what he said? I don’t even agree with him regarding that level of mask effectiveness. Of course, I didn’t say that. He’s saying it is effective in protecting the wearer I never said that. All I said was what he said, that masks protect the wearer, perhaps better than a vaccine under the circumstances he explains. You’re arguing against a straw man.

It happened in a “meaningful way” in MANY places in the US.

And in other countries.

And it didn’t matter.

Which is just what we should expect, at least if we had proper expectations of such measures.

Mitigators

• Masking-up (assuming it is done correctly)
• Social Distancing
• Isolation

These measures are mitigating. Not preventative.

Mitigating measures flatten the curve of infection. They slow down the rate.

But the absolute numbers don’t change.

• So with mitigation as needed decided by the individual, we get people mitigating AND an economy.
• With “nothing” we get a virus from which 99.5 of the people recover without medical sequelae and the economy continues to move along.
• With “Central Planning” cookie-cutter MANDATED mitigation we get economic destruction, worldwide famine, AND we still get a virus.
  (The same large number of patients still get infected, but at a slower rate.)

Flattening the curve slows down the spread, so as to not overwhelm the medical system. But does NOT lessen infections.

As Dr. Lisa Maragakis, Senior Director of Infection Prevention at Johns Hopkins Medical School explained, flattening the curve means that “ the same large number of patients As Dr. Lisa Maragakis, Senior Director of Infection Prevention at Johns Hopkins Medical School explained, flattening the curve means that “ the same large number of patients arrived at the hospital at a slower rate. [emphasis mine]”

Flattening the curve slows down the spread, so as to not overwhelm the medical system. The same number of infections is still the result.

 

[JonNC]

There is no social safety support in the United States

That’s a discussion for your governor, since that is not a constitutionally mandated role of the general government, but the states.
That said, the general government has usurped that role to a great extent and we spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year on the social safety net. Please.

so too many people in public-facing jobs had to keep working to feed themselves and their families.

What other kinds of jobs do you suggest people have?

And the affluent feel entitled to the services provided by the poor and working class, and generally don’t care who gets sick, dies, end up with a lifetime of medical problems and hospital bills so long as they can eat out,

Source, please, where affluent people have said this.
Otherwise, it is an unsubstantiated accusation.

Political leaders encouraged us to sacrifice our kids and our grandparents for the economy.

Again, a source please. I have heard no political leader of any party make such an encouragement. In fact, the actions show the opposite in most cases. Tens of millions of children have been harmed academically, emotionally, and socially by closing of schools contrary to the science.

Social media allowed every psychopath and quack with an internet connection to promote anti-lockdown and anti-mask ideas.

So now you favor authoritarian censorship? We just went through 4 years of outright lies about Russian collusion, and a recent overt attempt to censor legitimate news because the DNC media and big tech wanted Trump defeated. Please.

There has been censorship by big tech of alternative viewpoints of doctors and experts, not quacks or psychopaths (please name a psychopath related to this).

And there’s so much anti-science

Like ongoing school closings and broad community shutdowns.

The pandemic has brought into sharp focus just how broken the US is and every level by every human metric.

Now you must be talking about Cuomo and Murphy and Newsom. I couldn’t agree more.

 

[Motherwit]

I think you should put ALL of what I said in your post Motherwit.

I ALSO told you cases would go up in the winter.

And cases HAVE gone up in the winter . . . ALL OVER.

The original article you promoted stated “Sweden has now built some level of immunity to the virus, and all signs indeed point to the pandemic being over in Sweden.”

I really don’t enjoy getting so pedantic but if someone keeps changing the goal posts to avoid admitting they got it wrong, all of us will end up like Sweden. Down the gurgler.

The first mention you made of winter was in post 231 on August 26 where you said in winter Sweden with a great degree of immunity won’t be bad like the US will be.

With Sweden doing well now, they are going to be glad they have this degree of immunity (we as a nation are lacking) come this winter I suspect.

And their extremely vulnerable they can still take extra measures to protect (unlike Andrew Cuomo did earlier with the elderly and frail in New York) this winter.

That didn’t pan out though. Sweden is in more of a pickle than the first time around.

I also asked you to show me where the WHO reversed itself on calling Sweden “a model country” in this regard.

And I am still waiting.

The statistics tell the story. Even Sweden itself is doing a u-turn.

Sweden rethinks its light-touch approach to coronavirus - Los Angeles Times

I also showed where you were touting Denmark as having great results.

When I showed you Denmark ALSO had no MANDATED masking-up, you became silent in that regard.

What you don’t seem to understand is that when community transmission is under control and contact tracing is good, you don’t need strict mask mandates. In the majority of Australia and New Zealand you barely see a mask these days. That’s because the mask/social distancing/lockdown effort, got it under control.

 

[Motherwit]

I also told you MITIGATION does not reduce cases but rather spreads them out over a longer period of time.

leftists have had the whole proverbial nine yards in many places around the world.

• Social distancing
• Masking-up
• Quarantining HEALTHY people

These mitigating strategies to substitute for treatment options have been an utter failure EVERYWHERE in the world where corona virus has had a foothold.

I pointed out numerous times MITIGATIONS are fine for an emergency to spare a health care system in overload but they are not meant as long-term solutions and sooner or later the “cure” gets worse than the disease (because you bring upon yourself economic destruction and YOU STILL have a virus to contend with).

It isn’t leftist or rightists. It’s a non political pandemic in most of the world and I’ve mentioned the most successful countries so far over and over but you either don’t read those bits or ignore what you’ve read.

I also pointed out the mitigation as a substitute for treatment has led to global FAMINE of “Biblical Proportions”.

Many here have shrugged that off. So I tried to help get them out of a self-perspective by asking what they would think if their grocery stores were locked down (as a simulation as to what others the world over are going through).

It didn’t compute. Nor will it, unless they can look at the bigger picture.

International organizations like the UN and EU and Catholic charities are on the job in aid of 3rd world countries. It is more prudent and easier to feed them than to bring them back from the dead from the plague.

Sweden is now five weeks into their proverbial crackdown and the case rate is at its highest DESPITE the mitigation mandates there.

Admittedly deaths have fallen but it is tough to tell what is going on as they at least in the past were killing their own people who had corona virus (giving narcotics - a respiratory depressant - to sick corona virus patients with corona virus pneumonia. A very self-destructive paradigm.).

So far Sweden has only made suggestions to people about what to do and that isn’t working. Too many selfish or ignorant people to make that work. So while Swedens daily case rate is between 6000 and 8000 per day, Denmarks is between 2000 and 3000. Finland between 500 and 800. And Norway around 500 cases per day. There’s a huge difference between these similar populations.

I stand by everything I said.

Until the goals need moving again?

 

[Motherwit]

Motherwit:

18,000 dead in the 7 days since these prediction were posted. At that rate the CDC’s forecast will come around in 8 weeks and Biden’s forecast will take 11 weeks.

Motherwit, I apologize that I can’t cut and paste the figures in your post. I’ll just copy them myself-- I don’t understand these figures–help me out, here, please.

16,039,393 cases in the U.S.
299,692 deaths
9,330,865 recovered

But…that leave 6,408,836 cases unaccounted for–what’s happening with these? Are they still hospitalized or convalescing? Or did they end up not really having COVID (perhaps influenzae or Strep throat or something else?)

Thanks for clarification!

I imagine this is exactly what the situation is. Worldometer gives a breakdown of the numbers in each state that make up that 6.5 million figure.

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[Cathoholic]

I’ve mentioned the most successful countries so far

So what?

You still cannot “mitigate” a virus away.

They still have to worry about risk. As I said. Mitigating can put it off. But it can’t stop it.

No matter how many “successful” countries you think you cited.

It is just a fact.

International organizations like the UN and EU and Catholic charities are on the job in aid of 3rd world countries. It is more prudent and easier to feed them than to bring them back from the dead from the plague.

Basically what your saying is “someone else” needs to do it (isn’t that a “risk” for Catholic charities to run around the globe and feed everybody??) instead of allowing the economy to move and people taking care of themselves?

The UN cannot deliver the world. I have no idea where you are getting these ideas, but the UN (to its credit) is one of the organizations sounding the alarm on world hunger.

If you want you can go to LifeSiteNews and see an interview with one of the world food coordinators who is warning people.

.

So far Sweden has only made suggestions to people about what to do and that isn’t working.

This is false.

Go read the thread. Sweden too is mandating these things now. Since either the beginning of October or the beginning of November (if you want exact dates look it up).

Cases are still sky high. As I said. Death rates vary, but with them killing their own elderly, you cannot draw much for conclusions (unless the death rate was back close to zero).

You have a lot of errors and half-truths here motherwit.

 

[Motherwit]

So far Sweden has only made suggestions to people about what to do and that isn’t working.

That just isn’t true. From yesterdays news as I linked to above.

"Unlike many of its neighbors, Sweden has set forth largely voluntary guidelines, encouraging citizens to practice social distancing and hygiene protocols like hand washing — but, notably, not mask wearing.

Visitors to Sweden are surprised by the general absence of face coverings. In other Western European countries such as Germany, wearing a mask in indoor establishments and on public transportation is mandatory, and many Europeans have grown accustomed to donning one whenever they leave the house."

Cases are still sky high. As I said. Death rates vary, but with them killing their own elderly, you cannot draw much for conclusions (unless the death rate was back close to zero).

Cases are sky high because the prophesied “immunity” didn’t happen. At the beginning because of lack of intensive care treatment, many people had to be made comfortable and inevitably died. Sweden unfortunately still clinging to false science and false hopes, is now in the same place again with high care availability at 1%. Everything they’ve done was wrong and continues to prove so.

Stockholm, Sweden's Largest City, Has Only Seven ICU Beds Free Amid COVID Surge

You have a lot of errors and half-truths here motherwit.

So as I’ve just demonstrated to you, the errors are yours.

 

[JonNC]

Basically what your saying is “someone else” needs to do it (isn’t that a “risk” for Catholic charities to run around the globe and feed everybody??) instead of allowing the economy to move and people taking care of themselves?

Where does Catholic charities get the money from to “ run around the globe and feed everybody” if the US and other world economies are shut down (in contradiction of the “experts “)?

 

[Cathoholic]

The original article you promoted stated “Sweden has now built some level of immunity to the virus, and all signs indeed point to the pandemic being over in Sweden.”

I really don’t enjoy getting so pedantic but if someone keeps changing the goal posts to avoid admitting they got it wrong, all of us will end up like Sweden. Down the gurgler.

I don’t mean to be pedantic, but I think you are posting on the wrong thread.

And people who have been infected DO enjoy immunity after recovery.
(Sometimes they apparently enjoy immunity BEFORE being infected too as is the case with the cross-antigenicity of other corona virus infections [some cold viruses] and T-Cell immunity.)

 

[ProVobis]

In the majority of Australia and New Zealand you barely see a mask these days. That’s because the mask/social distancing/lockdown effort, got it under control.

I hear Hawaii is not doing too poorly either.

 

[Motherwit]

Motherwit:

The original article you promoted stated “Sweden has now built some level of immunity to the virus, and all signs indeed point to the pandemic being over in Sweden.”

I really don’t enjoy getting so pedantic but if someone keeps changing the goal posts to avoid admitting they got it wrong, all of us will end up like Sweden. Down the gurgler.

I don’t mean to be pedantic, but I think you are posting on the wrong thread.

You brought the Sweden thread up back in #62, sir.

And people who have been infected DO enjoy immunity after recovery.

The grim goal of herd immunity through the free spread of the virus has amounted to widespread “cull” of the vulnerable. And it’s not certain even whether immunity will be lifelong or only for these current strains of the virus. So many unknowns to have based what has become a quack policy on.

 

[Cathoholic]

You brought the Sweden thread up back in #62, sir.

No I did not bring up “Sweden” there and everybody reading knows it.

I brought up physiologic mechanisms and happened to link to the physiology on the Sweden thread.

Here is the post I linked to in its entirety . . .

Polio causes neurologic harm by traversing through the BLOODSTREAM to vulnerable nerves.

Corona virus causes harm to the respiratory cells BEFORE it hits the bloodstream.

Blood-based antibody (IgM and later IgG) may help with endorgan damage,
but will not protect you against getting coronavirus in the first place because the respiratory epithelium is being attacked by coronavirus via the airway. Not via the bloodstream.

In the airway you need a different antibody (IgA) and right now, we do not know how to stimulate this subset of antibody.

.

Do you have an issue with the basic physiology? If so what is it?

Explain to me what is wrong?

.

herd immunity through the free spread of the virus has amounted to widespread “cull” of the vulnerable.

Who has asked for a “widespread “cull” of the vulnerable”??

I’ve never seen ANYBODY here on CAF ask for that.
I have seen you SAY this, but I have no idea who you are talking about.

Who (and please link it) are you talking about??