Big Bang cannot be caused

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The nature of time involves change. It is not a sequence of numbers. While we can imagine a date before the other in succession, this has no meaning in the real world where dates are applied as labels to events that have happened. Of course we can count forever backwards, but it has no meaning unless that number is attached to something real. In terms of causes, there needs to be an initial cause and that is what we witness in the data as it is explained using the theory of the Big Bang. The initial cause has to be outside what is at the beginning, in order for it to cause the beginning.
 
Aloysium said:
In terms of causes, there needs to be an initial cause and that is what we witness in the data as it is explained using the theory of the Big Bang.
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You are assuming that there needs to be an initial cause.
Also, why did the Creation of the universe have to occur at a singularity point? God is all powerful and He is not required to create the universe at a singular point.
 
pietrocontolini said:
Than why do you find God having existed for eternity logically no sequitur?
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I have not said so. I said that there is no rule of logic which is violated by assuming an infinite regress. Here’s my proof: Mathematics assumes an infinite regress and mathematics is one of the most logical studies available.
 
Tomdstone said:
You are assuming that there needs to be an initial cause.
Also, why did the Creation of the universe have to occur at a singularity point? God is all powerful and He is not required to create the universe at a singular point.
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If it all comes into being from a single point, where were all the billions of everything - galaxies, light-years, us.
Someone’s doing something, and those Persons are pretty amazing.

It just happened, some believe, like everything else just happens until you figure it out.

That’s the way He did it.

It sounds like you would want teach Him a thing or two.
 
Tomdstone said:
You are assuming that there needs to be an initial cause.
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Logic dictates that there be an initial cause. Causality is a string of cause and effect, where one state precedes from the previous state. Without the previous state, the current state would not exist. If you remove the first link in this chain (the First Cause), then all subsequent links would cease to exist.

We also know that nothing can come from nothing, and that something cannot create itself. All of science and observation informs these truths. As a result, it is necessary that there be an entity outside of the “something” which exists physically which created that which exists physically (since, as stated, it cannot create itself).
Also, why did the Creation of the universe have to occur at a singularity point? God is all powerful and He is not required to create the universe at a singular point.
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It’s not that God had to do it that way, it’s that he did. All the evidence we’ve gathered points to a singularity, and since we believe God to be rational (He wouldn’t allow the reality He created to lie about it’s origin or the method of its creation), it stands to reason that the evidence we observe would be reflective of reality. You seem to feel that it’s necessary that He didn’t do it this why. Why are you placing limitations and constraints on God?
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Don’t waste your time. This has been explained to Bahman repeatedly. He either refuses to listen, or just can’t understand it. I know that I personally have explained it to him on at least 5 occasions, and he’s never even acknowledged it, let alone considered it. I know that several others have explained it to him as well.

You can only instruct the ignorant if they are willing to learn.
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Please read post #66. Moreover I am very well aware of your definition of God. Your definition of God however has problems but you are no paying any attention to my arguments. So I think that your words fits to you better.
 
Tomdstone said:
There is no logical contradiction in assuming infinite regress. There is no rule of logic which is violated.
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We are not talking about infinite regress. We are talking about the fact that it takes infinite time to reach from eternal past to now which is not achievable.
 
Bahman said:
We are not talking about infinite regress. We are talking about the fact that it takes infinite time to reach from eternal past to now which is not achievable.
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God is not bound by time as we are
 
Bahman said:
So you think that God can exist inside nothingness?
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God is not a being. He is to be itself. He is not a thing inside the universe, or physically outside the universe. He just exists as other than the universe.
 
Bahman said:
Please read post #66. Moreover I am very well aware of your definition of God. Your definition of God however has problems but you are no paying any attention to my arguments. So I think that your words fits to you better.
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Bahman, I’ve paid attention to several of your “arguments.” I’ve addressed them calmly, and repeatedly. I’ve persisted when you ignore my posts. And, once again, here I am, trying to point out that you’re not actually making any arguments.

An argument consists of a claim followed by supporting evidence for that claim. You tell me to refer to post #66, and I quote:
We are talking about creation, BB and the fact that BB cannot be caused.
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This is not an argument Bahman, it’s an assertion. It is also an assertion that has been thoroughly destroyed by several post in this thread. You have not once in this entire thread, or any of the other innumerable threads you’ve created following roughly this same bit of broken logic, actually addressed any of the flaws in your position that I and others have pointed out. All you do is refuse to acknowledge flaws, and then restate your original position as though it were fact. I don’t know how many times I’ve said this exact freaking thing to you. I don’t know if there’s a language barrier or something going on here, but nothing seems to get through to you.

The Big Bang MUST be caused by nature of the fact that nothing can create itself, and nothing can come from nothing. These are immutable truths of reality, supported by every last shred of scientific and observational evidence.

I don’t think I’m going to continue following this thread, so don’t feel any need to respond.
 
Aloysium said:
The nature of time involves change. It is not a sequence of numbers. While we can imagine a date before the other in succession, this has no meaning in the real world where dates are applied as labels to events that have happened. Of course we can count forever backwards, but it has no meaning unless that number is attached to something real. In terms of causes, there needs to be an initial cause and that is what we witness in the data as it is explained using the theory of the Big Bang. The initial cause has to be outside what is at the beginning, in order for it to cause the beginning.
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There is no outside of BB.
 
ProdglArchitect said:
Bahman, I’ve paid attention to several of your “arguments.” I’ve addressed them calmly, and repeatedly. I’ve persisted when you ignore my posts. And, once again, here I am, trying to point out that you’re not actually making any arguments.

An argument consists of a claim followed by supporting evidence for that claim. You tell me to refer to post #66, and I quote:

This is not an argument Bahman, it’s an assertion. It is also an assertion that has been thoroughly destroyed by several post in this thread. You have not once in this entire thread, or any of the other innumerable threads you’ve created following roughly this same bit of broken logic, actually addressed any of the flaws in your position that I and others have pointed out. All you do is refuse to acknowledge flaws, and then restate your original position as though it were fact. I don’t know how many times I’ve said this exact freaking thing to you. I don’t know if there’s a language barrier or something going on here, but nothing seems to get through to you.

The Big Bang MUST be caused by nature of the fact that nothing can create itself, and nothing can come from nothing. These are immutable truths of reality, supported by every last shred of scientific and observational evidence.

I don’t think I’m going to continue following this thread, so don’t feel any need to respond.
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You need to read OP if you want an argument. What do you think of OP?
 
Bahman said:
What do you mean?

What do you mean?

There is nothing outside the universe.
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There is nothing physical outside the universe. God is just completely different from the universe. He doesn’t occupy space, nor is he in a sense “located” anywhere.
 
Bahman said:
We are not talking about God. We are talking about cyclic universe.
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Exactly. The universe couldn’t have existed for all eternity because it is logically impossible to reach now. The universe must have come into existence by something spaceless and timeless because nothing comes from nothing, nothing ever could. This is what we call God
 
pietrocontolini said:
There is nothing physical outside the universe. God is just completely different from the universe. He doesn’t occupy space, nor is he in a sense “located” anywhere.
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Something which doesn’t occupy any space and is not locatable cannot be knowledgeable since knowledge is structured information and information requires form.
 
pietrocontolini said:
Exactly. The universe couldn’t have existed for all eternity because it is logically impossible to reach now. The universe must have come into existence by something spaceless and timeless because nothing comes from nothing, nothing ever could. This is what we call God
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What rule of logic has been violated by assuming that the universe existed from all eternity?
 
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