Billions of people have HD video cameras in their pockets: why aren't we seeing lots of miracles on video?

[fladreamer]

There is a link to that video earlier in this thread. Admittedly, it’s an odd occurrence deserving of some investigation for sure! I can think of some explanations that aren’t miraculous, but I can’t really say one way or another what really happened.

Why do you think that this would be convincing, if the resurrection of Christ wasn’t enough to convince folks?

Why do you insist on getting 100% results? It took Thomas way, way more than any man nowadays can reasonably expect to see. Why did Christ accept to put Thomas’s doubts to rest but refuse to do it nowadays? Are we the wicked generation to whom no sign will be given? I think 1 Kings 18:24 is needed from time to time as a reminder. But you seem to be saying: ‘‘Since not everyone on every square foot of planet Earth would be convinced, why bother?’’ What about the masses of people who would convert in droves?

 

[PRmerger]

Could be. But how is that a problem if you know for a fact that it is a hoax?

Sorry–not understanding your point here?

The Vatican is not about what is popular but what is true.

You are correct.

 

[PRmerger]

Why do you insist on getting 100% results?

I don’t.

It took Thomas way, way more than any man nowadays can reasonably expect to see. Why did Christ accept to put Thomas’s doubts to rest but refuse to do it nowadays?

Because he could see into Thomas’ heart, most likely.

Just like he can see into the hearts of all those who are recusant.

Are we the wicked generation to whom no sign will be given? I think 1 Kings 18:24 is needed from time to time as a reminder. But you seem to be saying: ‘‘Since not everyone on every square foot of planet Earth would be convinced, why bother?’’ What about the masses of people who would convert in droves?

I think God says:

I gave you what you need.

You don’t believe it.

Your choice.

Everything that we need to become a Catholic has been provided for us.

You have your intellect. And your free will.

Do with it what you want.

But I don’t suggest using your emotions as an arbiter:

“Fr. Ramirez told me that I had to stop sleeping with my 2nd wife if I wanted to receive communion. That pissed me off. I left the Church”.

“Fr. McGillicudy told me that I had to pay $5000 to get my wife baptized. I left the Church”.

“Mrs. Wong didn’t give me the sign of peace today because I was drunk last night. Except, guess what, she was at the same bar I was at last night and drinking. I left the Church”.

 

[fladreamer]

I think God has done the smartest thing with our soteriology: given us enough hope that we can feel some confidence in our salvation, with just enough fear that we can say, “I may not be one of those saved”.

That’s a perfect combination, no?

You don’t want the OSAS lie to fool you, and you don’t want to be ruled by despondence either.

So are you saying that the ‘‘greater part of humankind will be lost’’ is not the truth but some sort of tactic to keep us in line? What about the ‘’ For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter’’? As clear and straightforward a statement as you can get. Would you say ‘‘We entrust the souls of unbabptized babies to the mercy of God’’ is a crafty way to say those souls are saved while at the same time making sure abortion for example is not taken more lightly because of the assurance of salvation?

 

[PRmerger]

So are you saying that the ‘‘greater part of humankind will be lost’’ is not the truth but some sort of tactic to keep us in line?

I’m saying it may be true, it may be false.

What about the ‘’ For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter’’? As clear and straightforward a statement as you can get.

Only if you read it with a fundamentalist lens.

Fortunately, we read the Bible with the lens of the Faith which gave us the Scriptures.

Would you say ‘‘We entrust the souls of unbabptized babies to the mercy of God’’ is a crafty way to say those souls are saved while at the same time making sure abortion for example is not taken more lightly because of the assurance of salvation?

We are saying that we can hope for their salvation.

Nothing more, and certainly nothing less.

Curious–are you a former Catholic?
And are you now an atheist?

Of course, you are under no obligation to answer those 2 questions.

 

[fladreamer]

Using Advanced Search indicates the video has not been cited.

As for the OP and all those who require their own “backyard resurrection” to come to believe are like St. Thomas who was neither ignorant nor wise but lacked faith.

If one cannot use the simple CAF Advanced Search than one might not understand the google engine’s capability.

God makes man. He understands that on the prone-to-believe-without-direct-evidence spectrum, people are all over the place, and Thomas was off the charts! Men who are fathers to many children will adapt to their child’s own personality, tastes and maturity. Why does God want to use with modern man a one-size-fits-all approach? What about the reasonable, critical thinking Thomas of today? Because it’s best to believe without seeing does not mean that it’s bad to require seeing for believing. Why Pope Francis, Peter’s successor, isn’t able to speak in many languages or perform miracles as Peter did? Or why isn’t Francis capable of ‘‘greater things’’ than Peter? Is a Catholic man who has received worthily the eucharist for 40 years (2-3000 in total) any different/better from/than his enthusiatic Evangelical counterpart? ‘‘You’ll know them by their fruits’’ where are those fruits? I expect someone who’s been working out/doing cardio and eating according to his expenditure to look drastically different from your regular Joe.

 

[PRmerger]

God makes man. He understands that on the prone-to-believe-without-direct-evidence spectrum, people are all over the place, and Thomas was off the charts! Men who are fathers to many children will adapt to their child’s own personality, tastes and maturity. Why does God want to use with modern man a one-size-fits-all approach?

Catholicism is big enough to meet every single human person’s needs, flad.

What about the reasonable, critical thinking Thomas of today?

There are a multitude of them right here. I am one of them.

Because it’s best to believe without seeing does not mean that it’s bad to require seeing for believing. Why Pope Francis, Peter’s successor, isn’t able to speak in many languages or perform miracles as Peter did?

Because that wouldn’t be enough to make folks believe who are recusant.

It’s like you telling your honey, “I will marry you when you jump in front of that train for me. What’s so bad about asking for proof of your devotion to me?”

Absolutely wrong demand for any lover to make, no?

 

[fladreamer]

Curious–are you a former Catholic?
And are you now an atheist?

Of course, you are under no obligation to answer those 2 questions.

Former Catholic. Being an atheist is a tough position to be in. For starters, how do you explain the complexity and the mind-boggling vastness of the universe, of which the solar system is only a grain of sand? Nobody would come across a house in a foret somewhere and think all the components, through their own volition, magically assembled to become a house. My thinking may be flawed, but I can’t outthink myself, as it were.

But I wonder why the Thomas of this age is made to feel out of line. And why are you so adamant/sure that God will not deign to manifest himself in a way that will convince a skeptic?

 

[PRmerger]

Former Catholic.

Ah. Thank you for answering.

Being an atheist is a tough position to be in. For starters, how do you explain the complexity and the mind-boggling vastness of the universe, of which the solar system is only a grain of sand? Nobody would come across a house in a foret somewhere and think all the components, through their own volition, magically assembled to become a house. My thinking may be flawed, but I can’t outthink myself, as it were.

To be sure.

You have no answer for the Problem of Evil.
You have no answer for: why is there something rather than nothing (which is the Trump Card for believers)
You have no answer for: how can something come from nothing.

It would seem to me that your rejection of Catholicism is, as I alluded to earlier, an emotional one rather than one that is borne out of reason.

But I wonder why the Thomas of this age is made to feel out of line. And why are you so adamant/sure that God will not deign to manifest himself in a way that will convince a skeptic?

Oh, I haven’t said, at all, that God will not manifest himself in a way that will convince a skeptic.

 

[fladreamer]

Because that wouldn’t be enough to make folks believe who are recusant.

It’s like you telling your honey, “I will marry you when you jump in front of that train for me. What’s so bad about asking for proof of your devotion to me?”

Absolutely wrong demand for any lover to make, no?

If you had been the 13th apostle )), would you have said that to Thomas? Asking for evidence, clear evidence is reasonable, anybody making a claim will have to somehow back it up unless people take his word for it. Asking someone to die to prove a point is not reasonable. But strangely this reminds me of God asking Abraham to sacrifice his son to prove his faith, obedience and devotion. So asking your fiancée to jump in front of a train to prove her devotion to you may not be such a bad idea IF you can manage to make the train miss her, somehow.

 

[Aloysium]

Everyone can see the need that exists in the world. No miracle is required to know that we can do good and help in our small way. Doing His will, we will see miracles happen as we move mountains.

The primacy of love is clear. Knowing this, the reality of Jesus Christ, the Church and all its teachings simply make sense.

We are all different with different callings. But, it sounds like people who are looking for some sort of sign, in seeking God, they may be looking in the wrong direction.

 

[fladreamer]

Using Advanced Search indicates the video has not been cited.

As for the OP and all those who require their own “backyard resurrection” to come to believe are like St. Thomas who was neither ignorant nor wise but lacked faith.

If one cannot use the simple CAF Advanced Search than one might not understand the google engine’s capability.

I was pretty sure I’d seen the vid, then you made me doubt myself. Then I wondered if I’d seen it in another thread. Then I started reviewing this thread and eureka: post #7 and it’s the 2nd link in that post.

 

[fladreamer]

Everyone can see the need that exists in the world. No miracle is required to know that we can do good and help in our small way. Doing His will, we will see miracles happen as we move mountains.

The primacy of love is clear. Knowing this, the reality of Jesus Christ, the Church and all its teachings simply make sense.

We are all different with different callings. But, it sounds like people who are looking for some sort of sign, in seeking God, they may be looking in the wrong direction.

‘‘Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you’’. Would you say that describes what you just said?

 

[o_mlly]

God makes man. He understands that on the prone-to-believe-without-direct-evidence spectrum, people are all over the place, and Thomas was off the charts! Men who are fathers to many children will adapt to their child’s own personality, tastes and maturity. … … .

Good point. Do we blame the fathers of Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler or Ted Bundy for their atrocities? Assuming their fathers were alive during the commission of their notorious crimes, do we wish the fathers mimicked their sons?

 

[fladreamer]

It would seem to me that your rejection of Catholicism is, as I alluded to earlier, an emotional one rather than one that is borne out of reason.

Yeah the burden of hopelessness and God’s lack/apparent lack of response. Relentless suffering, both intrinsic and extrinsic, has killed my faith in God. There is also the ‘‘dad filter’’, but it’s not just that one thing, it’a a plethora of things. But to me there’s no point in denying God’s existence. What broke the chamel’s back is knowing that not only I had 70-80 years of life to endure but that God could extend that period infinitely and add new sufferings to the sufferings I experienced in the temporal realm. You can’t be my loving dad and my potential hangman at the same time. If annihilation was promulgated ex cathedra tomorrow, my essential beef with God vanishes, and I can give heaven my best shot, knowing I’ll cease to exist if I miss God’s mark.

 

[fladreamer]

Good point. Do we blame the fathers of Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler or Ted Bundy for their atrocities? Assuming their fathers were alive during the commission of their notorious crimes, do we wish the fathers mimicked their sons?

Seriously, I have no idea what you are trying to tell me.

 

[PRmerger]

Yeah the burden of hopelessness and God’s lack/apparent lack of response. Relentless suffering, both intrinsic and extrinsic, has killed my faith in God. There is also the ‘‘dad filter’’, but it’s not just that one thing, it’a a plethora of things. But to me there’s no point in denying God’s existence. What broke the chamel’s back is knowing that not only I had 70-80 years of life to endure but that God could extend that period infinitely and add new sufferings to the sufferings I experienced in the temporal realm. You can’t be my loving dad and my potential hangman at the same time. If annihilation was promulgated ex cathedra tomorrow, my essential beef with God vanishes, and I can give heaven my best shot, knowing I’ll cease to exist if I miss God’s mark.

I am soooo sorry for your sufferings. Truly.

But surely you see the faulty logic you are using, yeah?

And without God, you still have your suffering.

Just no reason for it.

At least with the Christian ethos, specifically the Catholic lens, you can unite your sufferings to Christ for a greater good.

As Pope JPII said, gently slapping a person on the cheek, “Don’t waste your suffering, son”.

 

[PRmerger]

There is also the ‘‘dad filter’’, .

Are you saying that no dad permits his son to suffer?

Really?

Will you not hold your son down, should he be dehydrated and in need of IV fluids, so the nurse can stick him (multiple times sometimes) with a needle?

Will you not take your daughter to get immunized, having her endure sometimes 5 shots in 1 visit?

 

[Aloysium]

‘‘Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you’’. Would you say that describes what you just said?

That’s a translation that fits although less specific in terms of what constitutes God’s kingdom - people coming together to do His will as stated clearly by Jesus in the two commandments He left us.

 

[PRmerger]

If you had been the 13th apostle )), would you have said that to Thomas?.

I would have said this:
youtube.com/watch?v=VxxOV7kfEcs

“He’s alive! He has been here! Just like he said…”