Bishop Athanasius Schneider: ‘We are in the fourth great crisis of the Church’

[Mark121359]

The Ultimate act of Adoration: Kneeling to receive the Eucharist from Christ ( in *Persona Christie) * while in the state of Grace.

Receiving communion in the hand comes from the heretical Dutch Catechism of 1966 in heavily Protestant regions of Belgium, Germany, France and Holland. They want to stand and feed themselves like adults who know right from wrong.

Satan told Eve “Surely you will not die, you will know the difference between good and evil and be like God”

It puzzles me that you really believe that standing and receiving Christ in your hand is more spiritually efficacious than kneeling and receiving on the tongue. I feel sorry for you.

Receiving in the hand has become so common, communion so casual that many people receive that aren’t even Catholic, have not gone to confession

My suggestion: It all starts with how we understand and approach the Eucharist.

Wow!!! Where have you been hiding? Finally, a voice of reason crying out from all the darkness that surrounds me!..Bravo drolla!

Peace, Mark

 

[pnewton]

Would you like to?

I have seen that picture. I know that some hosts can leave crumbs. I am just saying ours does not. I do not know where they are purchased, but I think I will look next time I get a chance.

 

[Tigg]

Then you can put me down for either being in denial, or burned out over the over use of the word “denial”. Lots of problems out there, for sure, as there has been over the last 2000 years.

okay… In the future, I’ll try to use a synonym.

 

[ProVobis]

I have seen that picture. I know that some hosts can leave crumbs. I am just saying ours does not. I do not know where they are purchased, but I think I will look next time I get a chance.

Again, if coins can be rubbed off, then certainly hosts, which are easily absorbed into the body, can be. If you wish not to see them, fine, but that does not change the facts.

 

[pnewton]

Again, if coins can be rubbed off, then certainly hosts, which are easily absorbed into the body, can be. If you wish not to see them, fine, but that does not change the facts.

Coins are affected by oils in the skin. Make no mistake, my wishes have nothing to do with my observation. I *do *look, just in case that one time there is a crumb. There has never been a visible crumb, one with the accidents, if you will. I do not doubt that on the molecular level some will exist, but that is not an issue.

FYI - I still would like to see a paten, even if one was *never *needed. I think just the presence of the paten is a good symbol of the real presence.

 

[Tigg]

Again, if coins can be rubbed off, then certainly hosts, which are easily absorbed into the body, can be. If you wish not to see them, fine, but that does not change the facts.

I cannot find a high-five sign in our smilies. I give you one, nonetheless!

 

[Tigg]

Coins are affected by oils in the skin. Make no mistake, my wishes have nothing to do with my observation. I *do *look, just in case that one time there is a crumb. There has never been a visible crumb, one with the accidents, if you will. I do not doubt that on the molecular level some will exist, but that is not an issue…

Should we lick our hand, just in case? Because I have seen them with my naked eye!

FYI - I still would like to see a paten, even if one was *never *needed. I think just the presence of the paten is a good symbol of the real presence.

Okay…all is forgiven.

 

[ProVobis]

I *do *look, just in case that one time there is a crumb.

The naked eye isn’t necessarily the best way to measure something. Being farsighted, I have a tough time seeing anything in my hands. I don’t know who made that rule up.

And AFAIK no one here seems to disagree that there is more risk taken when going from hand to hand to mouth than simply straight from hand to mouth. That should be intuitive.

But FWIW, my personal preference is for intinction from a priest. It would satisfy many on both sides of the aisle IMO.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

The naked eye isn’t necessarily the best way to measure something. Being far sighted, I have a tough time seeing anything in my hands. I don’t know who made that rule up.

And AFAIK no one here seems to disagree that there is more risk taken when going from hand to hand to mouth than simply straight from hand to mouth. That should be intuitive.

Do you think God is beyond all of this ?

If a micro-crumb inadvertently drops to the floor, does God get offended ?

Did the bread Jesus used to establish the Eucharist, as course as it was compared to the host we use today, have crumbs that didn’t make it into the mouths of the Apostles ?

It’s not as if we’re purposely not being careful with the host, but even receiving on the tongue doesn’t mean there won’t be times when the entire hosts drops to the floor.

I remember seeing a host dropped at Mass before Vatican II and the panic of the nuns was near hysteria.

I believe that just as God transforms the bread into the body of Jesus, he can return it to just plain bread if it doesn’t reach the mouth of the communicant or priest.

Jim

 

[ProVobis]

Do you think God is beyond all of this ?

If a micro-crumb inadvertently drops to the floor, does God get offended ?

You know, I’m glad someone takes this pretty lightly considering that canon law specifically mentions automatic excommunication for intentionally tossing communion, meaning fragments of it as well.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You know, I’m glad someone takes this pretty lightly considering that canon law specifically mentions automatic excommunication for intentionally tossing communion, meaning fragments of it as well.

Do you not understand the difference between the two words inadvertently and intentionally ?

Go back and read what I posted with the correct definition to inadvertently and you’ll see how flawed your response here is.

Jim

 

[pnewton]

Should we lick our hand, just in case? Because I have seen them with my naked eye!

That is exactly my point. If one can make hosts that do not crumble, as ours do not, then why not use such a host? Why would a parish use any host that was not the best? Again, I have not seen even one crumb. I am constantly checking. My eyesight is excellent for my age.

I mean people here can argue against communion in the hand until the cows come home. I doubt there will be any new argument that our bishops are not already quite familiar with.

 

[drolla]

All host crumble, please watch the first few minutes of this video demonstration:
youtube.com/watch?v=BiUqDa_Gzj0
This is the reason the early Church was so careful in their reception of communion in the hand and eventually evolved into the more perfect method of the priest placing it directly on the tongue of the communicant.

 

[ProVobis]

Why would a parish use any host that was not the best?

Hands rub even the best. It’s been proven in laboratories. I know this as I used to work in same with more trustworthy equipment than the naked eye which can deceive.

But is that really the issue here? Isn’t it more of a mutatio gratia mutationis (change for the sake of change) that is at the crux of this bishop-named crisis? It wasn’t an issue for a thousand years or so. Neither were lay ministers of communion, all-vernacular liturgies, lay readers, cantors, etc. But all of a sudden they became issues? Had the Church been wrong in condemning these practices for hundreds if not thousands of years prior to the 60’s? It seems many actually believe that to be the case. That’s sadly quite an attack on the Church.

 

[drolla]

The reason it’s an issue is that the Novus Ordo celebrated by most parishes reflects little or none of the changes of Vatican II.
receiving communion in the hand - NOT Vatican II,
removing altar rails - NOT Vatican II,
removing the Tabernacle from center of Church - NOT Vatican II,
celebrating Mass facing the people - NOT Vatican II,
Little or no use of Latin - NOT Vatican II
no Gregorian chant - NOT Vatican II,
Eucharistic Ministers - NOT Vatican II,
Altar girls - NOT Vatican II,
contemporary and sappy music - NOT Vatican II,

The National Bishops conference created the Mass we attend now to be ecumenical and welcoming to Protestants. The preaching and the teaching, for the most part, has been watered down. So many Catholic adults in the Baby Boom generation know so little about the Catholic faith, but that’s O.K. as long as they feel good about whatever they believe is right. The Tyranny of Relativism now crushes the Church from its’ own flock.
We need hero Bishops to draw lines and boundaries, oh wait, they are already there.
They just need the courage to preach and live them and be examples.
Lex credenda, lex orlandi!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

All host crumble, please watch the first few minutes of this video demonstration:
youtube.com/watch?v=BiUqDa_Gzj0
This is the reason the early Church was so careful in their reception of communion in the hand and eventually evolved into the more perfect method of the priest placing it directly on the tongue of the communicant.

The demonstration which I’ve seen before, is seriously flawed from beginning to end and designed with an agenda.

Watch how he roughly handles the bag of unconsecrated hosts.

Also, how many times did he practice this before the final video clip was used ?

As pnewton said, I have never seen crumbs in my hand and I’m careful to be sure there is none.

Jim

 

[ProVobis]

We need hero Bishops to draw lines and boundaries, oh wait, they are already there.

Indeed there are. But they’re ignored. As is Vatican II except for its “spirit.”

 

[McCall1981]

The reason it’s an issue is that the Novus Ordo celebrated by most parishes reflects little or none of the changes of Vatican II.
receiving communion in the hand - NOT Vatican II,
removing altar rails - NOT Vatican II,
removing the Tabernacle from center of Church - NOT Vatican II,
celebrating Mass facing the people - NOT Vatican II,
Little or no use of Latin - NOT Vatican II
no Gregorian chant - NOT Vatican II,
Eucharistic Ministers - NOT Vatican II,
Altar girls - NOT Vatican II,
contemporary and sappy music - NOT Vatican II,

The National Bishops conference created the Mass we attend now to be ecumenical and welcoming to Protestants. The preaching and the teaching, for the most part, has been watered down. So many Catholic adults in the Baby Boom generation know so little about the Catholic faith, but that’s O.K. as long as they feel good about whatever they believe is right. The Tyranny of Relativism now crushes the Church from its’ own flock.
We need hero Bishops to draw lines and boundaries, oh wait, they are already there.
They just need the courage to preach and live them and be examples.
Lex credenda, lex orlandi!

Indeed there are. But they’re ignored. As is Vatican II except for its “spirit.”

To both of these posts

 

[pnewton]

All host crumble, please watch the first few minutes of this video demonstration:.

LOL!
All hosts crumble because you have a video of a hosts crumbling? Are you serious. Ten years. Zero crumbles. No, you can not convince me that all hosts crumble based on so poor logic. The thing is, this isn’t magic. It is verifiable, should anyone seek to do so. Anyone with even the smallest modicum of intelligence knows that any example, or several examples, do not prove universality.

 

[pnewton]

But is that really the issue here? Isn’t it more of a mutatio gratia mutationis (change for the sake of change) that is at the crux of this bishop-named crisis? It wasn’t an issue for a thousand years or so. .

Consider also, that it was not an issue for the centuries* before* communion on the tongue, the early Church, or Jesus. I understand doctrinal development, but this is core Catholicism. Do we doubt that God was unaware this being so critical as is made out by many today?

Of course not. That is why it is, and remains a discipline, not a doctrine. We really should have a little more faith in our church leaders in such matters.