Bishop Morlino Sacks Dissident Feminist Pastoral Associate, Elicits Rage from Liberal Community

[JReducation]

Ezekiel 33:7-9
"Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; so hear the word I speak and give them
warning from me. When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak out
to dissuade him from his ways, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his
blood. But if you do warn the wicked man to turn from his ways and he does not do so, he will die for his
sin, but you will have saved yourself”.

Telling folks when what they’re doing is contrary to the will of God, is love…and trust me, many in my have loved me in this way, and I thank them for it…

No one said anything to the contrary. The greatest saints have always promoted fraternal correction. But hostility, dismissiveness, and disrespect is not fraternal.

That is the point that I’m making. We want to correc others with a whip. The tongue can be the sharpest whip. There is no virtue in correction that is delivered with hostility. We see this in the writings of St. Benedict, St. Augustine, St. Francis, St. Clare, St. Teresa of Avila, Bl. John XXIII, B. Mother Teresa, John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Their corrections are always clear, but gentle and respectful.

I don’t understand why people would object to this.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[redrosetea]

Everytime I hear of a Bishop that has the courage to tell the truth,I cheer…that is the church I know and love…One that take charge and leads

That is what they are supposed to do…they are shepherds, not us, we are the sheep…and Christ said my sheep know me and my voice

 

[maggiemay2u]

No one said anything to the contrary. The greatest saints have always promoted fraternal correction. But hostility, dismissiveness, and disrespect is not fraternal. Since you are responding to me directly, I presume you reference me. Please be specific.

That is the point that I’m making. We want to correc others with a whip. The tongue can be the sharpest whip. There is no virtue in correction that is delivered with hostility. Please point out where I have been hostile. We see this in the writings of St. Benedict, St. Augustine, St. Francis, St. Clare, St. Teresa of Avila, Bl. John XXIII, B. Mother Teresa, John Paul II and Benedict XVI. Their corrections are always clear, but gentle and respectful. Having been taught by some Polish nuns, and with German in my heritage, I’ll lay dollars to donuts that our dear popes have had more than one or two correctional settings with errant members of the flock that weren’t so gentle–no proof, just an educated guess.

I don’t understand why people would object to this.

Fraternally,

JR

Geewilikers, I guess that whole “Get behind me, Satan” thing is out of step. Christ didn’t seem to pick a lot of nits with members of His own. He was much kinder to those who had not been told, than those who should have known better. St. Paul seems absent from your list…yet we honor him with a whole year…go figure.

 

[JReducation]

Geewilikers, I guess that whole “Get behind me, Satan” thing is out of step. Christ didn’t seem to pick a lot of nits with members of His own. He was much kinder to those who had not been told, than those who should have known better. St. Paul seems absent from your list…yet we honor him with a whole year…go figure.

The phrase “Get behind me Satan” has an exegetical message that does not apply to what we’re talking about. Jesus was not being rude. He was literally speaking to Satan and giving a foreshadowing of how the gates of hell would never prevail againt Peter. Peter was being tempted to deny Christ’s mission and Jesus protects Peter and foreshadows Peter’s primacy and protection from deception.

As to St. Paul and even Peter, both remind us of the importance of correction with love and respect. Paul gives us several reminders of what love is, including patient. Peter reminds us that a brother must fraternally correct another brother. Neither tell us that we should walk around with anger toward others or be rude toward others.

I did not mention Paul, not because I do not venerate him or study him. Simply speaking, these other mystics were the first who came to mind when I was trying to write.

My point is not against fraternal correction. My point is that too often on these forums we need to check our tone before we post, because when one reads the content of a post, it may not sound as we intend it to sound. It may sound hostile. Dialogue and discussions are more productive without hostility.

In addition, it has been part of the Catholic tradtion to treat religious and clergy with respect, even when they are sinners or when we disagree with them. We have to protect that tradition as well.

This applies to those who are supportive of bishops like Morlino or against him. He, other bishops, priests, deacons, brothers and sisters deserve respect when we address them or speak about them, whether we agree with them or not.

Kindness and good manners do not rule out disagreement or agreement.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[maggiemay2u]

The phrase “Get behind me Satan” has an exegetical message that does not apply to what we’re talking about. Jesus was not being rude. He was literally speaking to Satan and giving a foreshadowing of how the gates of hell would never prevail againt Peter. Peter was being tempted to deny Christ’s mission and Jesus protects Peter and foreshadows Peter’s primacy and protection from deception.

Your interpretation? A tad apodictic, IMHO. I have heard this passage discussed many times, but not heard this slant. Maybe I’m just too simple, but gosh darn if Christ didn’t speak simply and plainly. “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life maimed or crippled than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into eternal fire.And if your eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye than with two eyes to be thrown into fiery Gehenna” Sometimes, I think the intelligentsia over think Christ. He wasn’t fond of the intelligentsia of His time though either, was He? Just an observation, no need to respond, because this is off topic.

As to St. Paul and even Peter, both remind us of the importance of correction with love and respect. Paul gives us several reminders of what love is, including patient. Peter reminds us that a brother must fraternally correct another brother. Neither tell us that we should walk around with anger toward others or be rude toward others.

My point is not against fraternal correction. My point is that too often on these forums we need to check our tone before we post, because when one reads the content of a post, it may not sound as we intend it to sound. It may sound hostile. Dialogue and discussions are more productive without hostility.

Yes, I agree the mean spirited posts are unacceptable. Likewise the preachy, dismissive posts by some who seem to have a narcissistic bend are annoying, and the plank vs sliver writings are tiresome, so we do have to view them in a charitable way, lest we view the poster as a supercilious blowhard, which I’m sure none of us would like to be seen as. This whole line is off topic however, so perhaps you can start a thread to deal with it, if lt is of further interest to you.

In addition, it has been part of the Catholic tradtion to treat religious and clergy with respect, even when they are sinners or when we disagree with them. We have to protect that tradition as well.

Back to the topic. Tradition has been the faithful, including the clergy and religious follow Rome with obedience. Those who rail against Rome, and cause scandal and provide avenues of heresy, need to be prayed for, but not allowed to act in any capacity remotely associated with the Church.

Preoccupation with the religious being some special class, regardless of their actions seems a little compulsive, not to mention off topic. Unless of course, one is referencing the the total disregard demonstrated by dissident activistis towards Bishop Morlino.

 

[JReducation]

maggiemay2u:
I think you said what I have been trying to say. “Mean spirited posts are unacceptable” whether we are speaking about those who rally against the bishop or for the bishop, to those on the thread or those not on the thread to whom we may refer.

To keep this conversation going, there has to be a tempered tone in our response. Now that you and I have agreed on this, let’s hope that all of us will also agree and we can continue to discuss the issues around the Bishop.

By the way, I’m not opposed to his actions. I would say that sometimes, I would have suggested another avenue, but he didn’t ask my opinion.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[maggiemay2u]

The whole “cut off the hand that sins” approach that Christ mentioned is good enough for me. If a Pelosi, priest or diocesan employee refuses to comply to the tenets of the faith, and brings scandal by their actions, pray for them and cut them off. They are akin to a flesh eating disease, and need to be removed to protect the rest.

That doesn’t mean they can’t renounce, repent and reconcile–that’s what’s so cool about the whole Catholic thing. This dissident chick or any of the others who wound the mystical body by their rhetoric and actions, will be welcomed back with great joy, whenever they choose .We have seen this recently with the SSPX community. We anticipate their full communion with joy.

If we could only get more bishops acting like His Excellency, we might stop the downward spiral of the wayward Catholics.

 

[pnewton]

The whole “cut off the hand that sins” approach that Christ mentioned is good enough for me.

That does not refer to Church management, but the management of sin in one’s life, the avoidance of occasions of sin. The Church does not discard. Even excommunication is done with a goal of repentence.

I doubt this action took place in a vacuum. The Church, if anything, inclines to admonish and correct first. Only after correction is ignored do the more extreme measures come in. But a lay minister like this associate has no entitlement to the position. If she would not come in line with Church teaching and obey her superior, then she would need to be fired like any other poor-perfoming employee. Would one allow a janitor to continue that spread mud on the floor instead of cleaning them?

 

[CradleCath]

And how would those “catholic” cell groups and alternative “catholic” groups spring up and grow if not for the divisive efforts of dissident priests and laymen? No faithful Catholic is going to go to an illicit Mass just because he/she doesn’t like the Bishop. Those priests know they are sinning and deserve all the wrath Bishop Morlino sends their way. Have they completely forgotten thier promise of obedience to their Bishop?

I agree. Bishop Morlino inherited a MESS left by Archbishop Weakland. I wish him well & applaud this latest action. seattlecatholic.com/article_20020607_Archbishop_Weaklands_Legacy.html

In his 5,000 word written “response” to six “listening sessions” he had held with Catholic women about abortion in March/April 1990 Weakland criticised the Church’s “unequivocal” position as "too simplistic an answer to a complicated and emotional question and does not resolve all the concomitant problems surrounding the issue raised in a pluralistic society…". He also chided pro-life women for exhibiting an “unwholesome”, “fundamentalist” approach to Scripture, “proof-texting in ways that are not our tradition”, adding that “many wonderful pastoral priests” dislike the pro-life movement’s “narrowness”, lack of compassion" and lack of civility." Weakland later commented on pro-lifers after a “Respect Life” Mass he celebrated in Milwaukee: “Such a difficult group to preach to. Such hard faces. Such surety. No smiles. No openness to any other point of view … They have no joy in being Catholic or part of a Church”
(The New Yorker, July 15,1991).ad2000.com.au/articles/1992/oct1992p4_773.html

Though these words are from 1991, his positions became more & more liberal & anti-Rome through the following years until his affair with a man & the subsequent blackmail payments became known.

 

[manualman]

Weakland was never associated with Madison. He’s the former archbishop of Milwaukee.

I lived in Madison for 5 years in the early 90’s and couldn’t tell you who the bishop was. He might have been pretty old. In any case, he certainly wasn’t high profile.

JR, thanks for the reminder to watch tone and charity.

 

[maggiemay2u]

That does not refer to Church management, but the management of sin in one’s life, the avoidance of occasions of sin. The Church does not discard. Even excommunication is done with a goal of repentence.

I doubt this action took place in a vacuum. The Church, if anything, inclines to admonish and correct first. Only after correction is ignored do the more extreme measures come in. But a lay minister like this associate has no entitlement to the position. If she would not come in line with Church teaching and obey her superior, then she would need to be fired like any other poor-perfoming employee. Would one allow a janitor to continue that spread mud on the floor instead of cleaning them?

I was speaking euphemistically in the first paragraph. Obviously, I should have used the euphemism icon I’ll try to remember it next time.

Perhaps you missed the second paragraph. I spoke directly to reunification with the Church through reconciliation. I believe I mentioned the resulting joy from one who has been rebuked, or using your word, excommunicated, upon their return to Mother Church. My point was, and is, the warm fuzzy approach, as we have seen repeatedly with persons of prominence, is often ineffective. The failure to take decisive action wounds the rest of the body. While we can liken having to bear the sins of scandal to Christ bearing our sins, the scandal can inadvertently teach those weak in their faith that the objectively evil view is in accord with the Vatican.

I don’t believe anybody, please correct me if I’m wrong, thought this was an isolated occurrence. Having worked for a dear, now departed, archbishop, I know something about hiring/termination in chancery offices. To say many chances for improvement are offered is an understatement.

 

[Ender]

Bishop Morlino has ties to the School of America …

This is false (as is the entire accusation, but I’ll take this piecemeal). There is no School of America (or School of the Americas, which is what it was actually called). There was an SOA, but it has been reworked and is now WHINSEC: Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation. If you’re going to spread calumny about someone at least get the details right.

As for his “ties”, he is the chairman of the Board of Visitors which is the school’s federal oversight committee. Given the claims made against the old SOA every effort has been taken to make the new school as public and transparent as possible and it is astonishing to charge a person with misbehavior who has accepted the responsibility of providing oversight to ensure that misbehavior does not occur.

… but he justifies his connection by saying the School of America has never been found to do any thing wrong.

Well, this is pretty much true also. I get the feeling you really don’t know much about this issue but have seized on what appeared to be a handy way to damage Bp. Morlino.

Just throwing out a question here but would you say the death of Archbishop Romero (who Pope John Paul II gave the title “Servant of God”) by Salvadoran soldiers trained by the School of America as questionable if not just out right wrong ?

Just throwing out a question here, but wouldn’t you say that molesting children is wrong and weren’t those priests who did so trained by the Catholic Church - and don’t you have ties to the same organization? One charge is as just as the other.

The charges you levied are examples of rash judgment (even tacitly assuming as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor) and calumny (remarks contrary to the truth which harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them). All in all, not a good day’s work.

Ender

 

[Br_Mark]

I would first like to thank JR Education for his kind words. I will try and answer the questions and concerns that arose from my post. The motto for Burger King (Have it your way) was used I guess to some how tarsh what I had said; How about being church not my way or even your way but how about trying to be church, Christ’s way for a change.
I believe that one may have respect for the position, but at the same time disagree with someone’s belief or opinion. If someone were to voice the opinion that the earth was flat or that the theory of gravity was false; I would assume that someone would call that opinion into question. However, for example, when Bishop Williamson voiced his opinion on the holocaust ; there were many people here that defended his position.

There is a principle known as Malum in se, and unless those ideas are questioned, they will continue to grow. The problem with evil / sin is that it does not appear to be repulsive; if it were, no one would fall into that trap.

Let me say obedience and faith are not intended to be blind. Obedience has a higher meaning than merely following rules from a legitimate superior. Authority / guidance does not come out of a vaccume, it is created in discernment in community. A rule / law handed down without this discernment, even if it is correct is bound for failure unless the community which is was intended for has invested into it, ie made it their own.

One of the benifits of being a religious is to be somewhat out of the loop of the politics of the church. Bendictine communities were never intended to be part of the hierarchial or clerical status of the church, but to stand apart from the structure and offer a different voice.

In Christ’s Peace,

Br Mark, OSB

 

[manualman]

You have evidence that SOA directed the killing of Bishop Romero??

Or are you saying that you have seen evidence that the killers were alumni? It’s rather a different thing, you realize? Surely everyone agrees that WHINSEC / SOA is a military training center, so nobody should be surprised that the training there includes such things as tactics, weapons capabilities, special operations, etc… Can those things be misused? Absolutely! Do they have LEGITIMATE applications in a national military or must we all consider all our OWN Armed Forces veterans as baby killing monsters? After all, they’ve been through similar training, yes?

In my mind, it is a given that the SOA (whatever the name) provides hard-core military training to South American military personnel. That is its purpose. The question is whether it is appropriate to provide such training to countries with checkered governments or if it is a better alternative to sit by and watch those nations self-destruct via leftist revolutionary conflicts? IMO, not such a simple deliberation as most on the left would have you think.

So in the end, the SOA link is a red herring as brilliantly described by Ender.

BTW, I’m still waiting to hear what Br. Mark thinks of the fruit I saw in the Madison diocese under previous leadership. (early in the thread)

 

[Ender]

You are correct the SOA has changed it’s name, but as the quote goes…a rose by any other name… And yes I quoted the Bishop correctly when he said that the SOA has never done anything wrong. That my friend would run counter to a report by the UN on the death of Archbishop Romero.

Then I challenge you to provide a link to the report you cite so we can all see if the UN charged the SOA with responsibility in the assassination of Abp. Romero. Everyone accepts that the archbishop was murdered by a group headed by Roberto D’Aubuisson, who had in fact attended the SOA. The implication is thus made that the SOA taught him his nefarious skills and led him to his evil ways. The truth unsurprisingly is more mundane. D’Aubuisson attended the SOA in 1972 where he took a 1-2 week course in communications; that is, they taught him about radios.

As for your “rose by any other name” comment, the WHINSEC-SOA issue is a problem for you which glibness does not resolve. If you admit that WHINSEC - which has in fact been completely reworked from the SOA - is a differenct school then you have nothing to charge it with. If you contend - as you have done - that the change is merely cosmetic and there is no fundamental difference between the two schools then you have to explain how the SOA was responsible for the atrocities in which you imply it was complicit given that you and everyone else has complete freedom to visit the school, sit in on the classes, and read through its manuals. Since you can see what it teaches you should be able to point to the sections on terror tactics, political assassinations, and torture. So - which army manuals contain the objectionable material? What is the name of the class that teaches the evils with which you charge it?

Your charges against the school for what some of its attendees did are every bit as invalid as blaming the Church for what some of its priests did in molesting children. I should think you would be a little more aware of the completely inappropriate nature of both allegations.

Ender

 

[Br_Mark]

Dear Ender,

I refer you to the following web sites: www.us/p.org/library/te/doc/reports/elsalvador/tc_es_03151993_cajcsd1_2.html
www./thirdworldtraveler.com/terrorism/soa.html
soaw.org/

With all due respect I find your report unbelievable; especially when you say you can visit the school in question, since the SOA is located inside of Ft Benning , a US Army base.
Yes one of the sites above goes through the manuels of the SOA and no my friend they are not Boy Scout manuels.

Br Mark, OSB

 

[maggiemay2u]

Dear Ender,

I refer you to the following web sites: www.us/p.org/library/te/doc/reports/elsalvador/tc_es_03151993_cajcsd1_2.html
www./thirdworldtraveler.com/terrorism/soa.html
soaw.org/

With all due respect I find your report unbelievable; especially when you say you can visit the school in question, since the SOA is located inside of Ft Benning , a US Army base.
Yes one of the sites above goes through the manuels of the SOA and no my friend they are not Boy Scout manuels.

Br Mark, OSB

Anybody else having trouble?
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Aside from the fact this matter in and of itself is OFF TOPIC, the implication to Bishop Morlino belonging or having more than a pastoral relationship with with an organization that supports right wing terrorists is unmistakable. It is uncharitable and libelous, which, unless I miss my guess, was the reason for the umbrage among posters.

I requested sources for several of your allegations. I am confident you read my post as you referenced it. To make empty allegations statements is the height of uncharitable speech. Mentioning there are funds to build a chapel vs a cathedral is, IMO, silly. Last time I looked, it was a tad more pricey to build a house than a tool shed.

 

[pnewton]

Anybody else having trouble?

The only link that works is a site called SOA watch. It took ten seconds to realize that it was biased and agenda-oriented. It is not a reliable source.

 

[CradleCath]

We are told that we can judge the goodness of something by it’s fruits. In the case of Bishop Morlino, it appears that the “fruit” is highly questionable. The number of Catholics filling the pews of approved catholic parishes are going down while at the same time the numbers are increasing of those who are attending Catholic Cell groups and other alternative Catholic groups not under the authority of Bishop Morlino, which are being served by Catholic Priests; without the permission of Bishop Morlino and under the threath of his wrath.
Several years ago Bishop Morlino’s Cathedral was damaged by fire and the good bishop has managed to turn the catholics in the diocese against him by his actions, so that he can not raise enough money to rebuild the cathedral. Some would say that it’s the economy that is working against rebuilding the cathedral; but why then is it possible that there is the building of a new chapel to house those who are put off by the bishop’s handling of power.

Bishop Morlino has ties to the School of America, but he justifies his connection by saying the School of America has never been found to do any thing wrong. Just throwing out a question here but would you say the death of Archbishop Romero (who Pope John Paul II gave the title “Servant of God”) by Salvadoran soldiers trained by the School of America as questionable if not just out right wrong ?

Why is it that these “highly praised” bishops have connections to right wing groups ?

Just something to think about,

Br Mark, OSB

This is really odd, coming from a Benedictine. I live in “Benedictine country”. Conception Abbey is close by & Mount St. Scholastica is about a 30 min. drive. I’m curious…are you a secular Oblate or do you live in Community?

 

[Br_Mark]

Dear Maggie pie,

Sorry the links did not work; try googling 1) Part 4 Chapter 4 (D) from madness to hope El Salvadore. 2) Third world traveler School of Americas terrorism. and 3) School of Americas Watch. As to Bishop Morlino connection with the SOA they are his own words not mine and his statmednt that the SOA has never done anything wrong. Google Milwaukee Journel.

CradleCath,

Since you live near Conception Abbey, Conception MO you most likely know that the relationship between the abbey and the bishop of the Co-Diocese is strained (to put it nicely) Yes Iam a Brother / Monk and I live in a faternal community of the afore mentioned abbey.

I think it might be helful to reread last sundays gospel, especially John 3:20-21; “For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come towards the light, so that his works might not be exposed. But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as in God.”

Br Mark, OSB