Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons

[Rich_Olszewski]

Bad example, scandal, etc can lead children to sin, depending on their age and understanding. We know that he cares for the least of his creatures, and that sin is
abhorrent to him. We can have some understanding what that means to him.

But, the topic was abortion, and the unborn cannot sin.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

How are chidren induced to sin?

Can anyone know what God feels? He is far above reacting to things the way we react to them. .

Jesus is God, Rich. He is fully God and fully human. He created those little lives and they are being snuffed out, in the vast majority of cases, based on the selfishness of (mostly) men who in turn are deceiving, threatening, and coercing women into accepting any and all ‘arguments’ as being far more worthwhile and important than the child or the mother.

Let’s imagine.

Jesus looks at man. “well yeah I got her pregnant but I wasn’t ready to settle down, you know? I was already tired of her and you’d have had me tied down to her and some kid for 18 years. It would have ruined my life.”

Jesus looks at woman “he said it wasn’t his. He threatened to beat it out of me if I didn’t abort. I tried to find help but my parents said I couldn’t come to them and they’d stop supporting me at school and I already owed money. I tried to find somebody to adopt but they said they couldn’t do anything for me until the baby was there and it had to be perfect. I tried to find somewhere to go but there was no place to go. Everybody was yelling and screaming and cursing at me and I was so sick and scared and tired, and even when I went to PP I thought I could change my mind but even the people there made fun of me and I just wanted to die with my baby. . .”

Jesus looks at us, "uh, yeah Lord, well I kept saying on message boards and stuff that I would never have an abortion myself, but how could you expect us to inflict our morality on other people? We’d look like intolerant bigots! people would laugh at us! How could you expect us to stand up for babies when we can’t even stand up for our own faith without making excuses and trying to make you into something that we only pull out for an hour at church on a Sunday, or in our HOME, in ‘privacy and secret’?

 

[lynnvinc]

Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons
Manya A. Brachear | Chicago Tribune

CHICAGO — Joining the chorus of Roman Catholic clergy in Illinois criticizing President Barack Obama before next week’s election, Peoria Bishop Daniel Jenky ordered priests to read a letter to parishioners on Sunday before the presidential election, explaining that politicians who support abortion rights also reject Jesus…

So does that means Bishop Jenky is okay with annihilating all life on earth through environmental problems such as global warming, or perhaps he doesn’t understand the problems. Some top scientists say we could push our climate system into runaway warming as on Venus and end all life on earth. See esp pg 24 of columbia.edu/~jeh1/2008/AGUBjerknes_20081217.pdf

Whereas Bush at least gave some lipservice to environmental issues (which I perceived as insincere) and McCain gave truly sincere consideration of global warming and other environmental issues (backed by his actions on those issues), Romney has made it quite clear to me at least that he plans to tack strongly down a path that threatens to destroy life on earth through increasing our greenhouse gas emissions and toxic pollution, with a a flippant dismissal of serious environmental problems and a sneer at those of us driving our cars and powering our homes on 100% wind-generated power.

This election cycle we didn’t get a letter from our Bishop or message from our new parish priest about whom one should vote for, tho last time our previous priest (who passed away this year) told the parishioners during Mass that people who voted for Obama were risking going to hell (one-third of the parishioners got up and walked out, but not me).

However, as I went to Mass today I did notice a sign that read “Vote Pro-life” with a graphic of a fetus with umbilical cord connected to an encompassing heart-shaped womb. I thought to myself a better image would be of that fetus with umbilical cord connected to an encompassing earth/universe, held in God’s hand.

God gave us creation not to be a wasteland, uninhabitable, unable to sustain life. God did not intend for us to kill off all life on earth, including our fellow men and fetuses (note that pollution also kills fetuses and causes birth defects).

I’m not saying the voting choice is easy, only that neither candidate is totally good on life issues, both are pro-death in their own ways, and it really boils down to whether one wants to risk serious environmental harms that could destroy a large portion, perhaps all of life on earth to try and help reduce abortions through enacting anti-abortion laws, or one is willing to try other methods to reduce abortions while choosing a candidate who acknowledges serious environmental threats to life on earth, and will work to reduce these.

I won’t criticize anyone for voting for one or the other candidate. It’s a tough choice, the horns of a dilemma.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Some Christians believe the sanctity of life includes women’s lives.

Umm, Matt my friend. . .it isn’t an either/or. And a little more than half of those millions of aborted children are women too. . .

Show me where the Catholic Church teaches that if a woman’s life is in danger from a pregnancy, that she HAS to die because she is ‘less important’. Really, show me.

Rather, you will find that the Church teaches that BOTH lives are equally valuable and all efforts must go in to saving both lives. If in saving the life of the mother, in something such as an ectopic pregnancy, the child unfortunately dies, that is not a deliberate killing.

So your argument is a non argument.

 

[CMatt25]

So does that means Bishop Jenky is okay with annihilating all life on earth through environmental problems such as global warming, or perhaps he doesn’t understand the problems. Some top scientists say we could push our climate system into runaway warming as on Venus and end all life on earth. See esp pg 24 of columbia.edu/~jeh1/2008/AGUBjerknes_20081217.pdf

Whereas Bush at least gave some lipservice to environmental issues (which I perceived as insincere) and McCain gave truly sincere consideration of global warming and other environmental issues (backed by his actions on those issues), Romney has made it quite clear to me at least that he plans to tack strongly down a path that threatens to destroy life on earth through increasing our greenhouse gas emissions and toxic pollution, with a a flippant dismissal of serious environmental problems and a sneer at those of us driving our cars and powering our homes on 100% wind-generated power.

This election cycle we didn’t get a letter from our Bishop or message from our new parish priest about whom one should vote for, tho last time our previous priest (who passed away this year) told the parishioners during Mass that people who voted for Obama were risking going to hell (one-third of the parishioners got up and walked out, but not me).

However, as I went to Mass today I did notice a sign that read “Vote Pro-life” with a graphic of a fetus with umbilical cord connected to an encompassing heart-shaped womb. I thought to myself a better image would be of that fetus with umbilical cord connected to an encompassing earth/universe, held in God’s hand.

God gave us creation not to be a wasteland, uninhabitable, unable to sustain life. God did not intend for us to kill off all life on earth, including our fellow men and fetuses (note that pollution also kills fetuses and causes birth defects).

I’m not saying the voting choice is easy, only that neither candidate is totally good on life issues, both are pro-death in their own ways, and it really boils down to whether one wants to risk serious environmental harms that could destroy a large portion, perhaps all of life on earth to try and help reduce abortions through enacting anti-abortion laws, or one is willing to try other methods to reduce abortions while choosing a candidate who acknowledges serious environmental threats to life on earth, and will work to reduce these.

I won’t criticize anyone for voting for one or the other candidate. It’s a tough choice, the horns of a dilemma.

Thank you for this. I get very weary of the criticism here towards anyone who is voting for Obama. Neither political party is perfect. We are not in heaven on earth. I will just add I also don’t believe God is okay either with people for instance with pre existing conditions not having adequate health care coverage. Nor with cutting growth in social programs while being unwilling to ask the richest among us to contribute a bit more. But that’s my faith.

 

[SamH]

So does that means Bishop Jenky is okay with annihilating all life on earth through environmental problems such as global warming, or perhaps he doesn’t understand the problems. Some top scientists say we could push our climate system into runaway warming as on Venus and end all life on earth. .

Because Obama has done so much to combat this issue.

 

[superamazingman]

I can only say you and I sure have different faiths. Those aren’t the only things relevant when I read the Gospels.

No other factors matter if the kids don’t live up to and beyond birth, for pete sake.

It doesn’t matter if person X has a job or not if person /x is DEAD because his mother killed him because her pregnancy was a burden to her.

 

[superamazingman]

I don’t know for sure. He didn’t mention the word abortion.

For pete’s sake, there’s a lot of things he didn’t mention. that doesn’t mean they’re ok.

Are you seriously trying to rationalize supporting someone who voted against protecting children that had already been born? Let me make this clear: a child is born. The cord is cut, he/she is now completely separated from the mother. Under Obama’s voting record, that child can still be legally killed.

Go ahead, vote for him. Vote for him knowing the consequences to your soul and your salvation, and the blood you will have on your hands.

 

[Mickey]

For pete’s sake, there’s a lot of things he didn’t mention. that doesn’t mean they’re ok.

Are you seriously trying to rationalize supporting someone who voted against protecting children that had already been born? Let me make this clear: a child is born. The cord is cut, he/she is now completely separated from the mother. Under Obama’s voting record, that child can still be legally killed.

Go ahead, vote for him. Vote for him knowing the consequences to your soul and your salvation, and the blood you will have on your hands.

I will say it again: I cannot believe how any Christian can possibly justify voting for Barack “the champion for abortion” Obama.

 

[Nimzovik]

Yes… This is obvious…

 

[superamazingman]

Thank you for this. I get very weary of the criticism here towards anyone who is voting for Obama. Neither political party is perfect. We are not in heaven on earth. I will just add I also don’t believe God is okay either with people for instance with pre existing conditions not having adequate health care coverage. Nor with cutting growth in social programs while being unwilling to ask the richest among us to contribute a bit more. But that’s my faith.

You are bringing up points that are so much smaller than abortion. But you don’t get it. Of course, the health care system must be just. Of course, neither political party is perfect.

BUT WHEN 1/3 OF MY GENERATION IS BEING BRUTALLY MURDERED IN THE NAME OF HEALTHCARE, WE HAVE BIGGER FISH TO FRY THAN PREEXISTING CONDITIONS.

That 1/3 of my generation have a preexisting condition that will never allow any doctor to help them or do them any good. It’s called death. They are in that state thanks to the democrats and their type. By voting for them, you are participating and tacitly approving that murder, whether you like it or not.

 

[LisaA]

Yes, it is. The Church considers Mormonism a cult. I take the Church at its word. Those who would argue with the Church may do so.

Is this relevant to the thread or the election? No. You seem to be using the thread as an excuse to bash another faith.

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

Some Christians believe the sanctity of life includes women’s lives.

Women’s lives are virtually NEVER at risk with regard to the decision to abort. The majority of abortions are for convenience only.

Lisa

 

[superamazingman]

Some Christians believe the sanctity of life includes women’s lives.

you got yourself a deal! We will outlaw the approximately 99 percent of abortions that will not save the life of the life of the mother, and allow that small sliver of those that may.

Seriously, even if you include rape and incest, it’s still less than 5% of the time.

 

[Nigel7]

…explaining that politicians who support abortion rights also reject Jesus.

He is correct. And the same can be said for ANYONE who is pro-choice.

“You cannot be a good Catholic and pro-choice.” - Words of my Archbishop at today’s Mass.

 

[CMatt25]

Umm, Matt my friend. . .it isn’t an either/or. And a little more than half of those millions of aborted children are women too. . .

Show me where the Catholic Church teaches that if a woman’s life is in danger from a pregnancy, that she HAS to die because she is ‘less important’. Really, show me.

Rather, you will find that the Church teaches that BOTH lives are equally valuable and all efforts must go in to saving both lives. If in saving the life of the mother, in something such as an ectopic pregnancy, the child unfortunately dies, that is not a deliberate killing.

So your argument is a non argument.

Hi my friend Tantum. Yes I’m aware of indirect abortion vs not allowing women after they pray over their difficult decisions, seek to hear deep within their consciences, and who consult their pastors or other spiritual leaders along with their drs and family, the legal secular right to choose direct abortion to protect their health or to save their own life. Or not allowing women after deep prayer, searching their consciences, consulting their clergy or spiritual guides and families, and considering the effects rape or incest may have on their lives and on the lives of their families, a legal choice. But allowing politicians, in many cases males, politicians who purport to be for smaller government, to make these very personal determinations for them. I guess I don’t always find things as black and white I suppose with respect to what secular law should be on this one particular, very difficult, personal issue in a society of plural beliefs.

But in any case God bless you my friend and God bless everyone here. Peace to each of you.

 

[epan]

This is really sounding like the bishops are seeking to have the IRS revoke the tax exempt status of their diocese.

 

[CMatt25]

Go ahead, vote for him. Vote for him knowing the consequences to your soul and your salvation, and the blood you will have on your hands.

I already prayed about it and voted for him in good conscience last Thursday. Thanks though for judging whatever consequences you believe it has to my soul and salvation and the amount of blood on my hands. On that note I am leaving this thread. But I think I will allow God to judge any blood on my hands and Him to know my heart. God bless you as you walk in faith and His peace be with you always.

 

[rlg94086]

Umm, Matt my friend. . .it isn’t an either/or. And a little more than half of those millions of aborted children are women too. . .

Show me where the Catholic Church teaches that if a woman’s life is in danger from a pregnancy, that she HAS to die because she is ‘less important’. Really, show me.

Rather, you will find that the Church teaches that BOTH lives are equally valuable and all efforts must go in to saving both lives. If in saving the life of the mother, in something such as an ectopic pregnancy, the child unfortunately dies, that is not a deliberate killing.

So your argument is a non argument.

 

[rlg94086]

Hi my friend Tantum. Yes I’m aware of indirect abortion vs not allowing women after they pray over their difficult decisions, seek to hear deep within their consciences, and who consult their pastors or other spiritual leaders along with their drs and family, the legal secular right to choose direct abortion to protect their health or to save their own life. Or not allowing women after deep prayer, searching their consciences, consulting their clergy or spiritual guides and families, and considering the effects rape or incest may have on their lives and on the lives of their families, -]a legal choice/-] **to kill an innocent human being. **But allowing politicians, in many cases males, politicians who purport to be for smaller government, to make these very personal determinations for them. I guess I don’t always find things as black and white I suppose with respect to what secular law should be on this one particular, very difficult, personal issue in a society of plural beliefs.

But in any case God bless you my friend and God bless everyone here. Peace to each of you.

There. I fixed that for you, so others can clearly see what you are advocating. Now, what would Jesus do?