Bishop responds to Boy Scouts' decision on admission of homosexual members [CWN]

[Prodigal_Son1]

I think there may very well be a danger in dropping sponsorship of scout troops, not being thought of. It leaves secular groups open to stepping in to sponsor troops.

However well the intentions, Christ did not separate Himself from the sinners of His time, much less the innocents that associated with the sinners.

 

[CaptFun]

From the Chicago Tribune.

chicagotribune.com/news/local/suburbs/crystal_lake_cary/ct-met-church-evicts-scouts-20130602,0,6978607.story

Peace,
Ed

This is good. Now the scouts can be equally nice to Catholics.

And make a ruling that Church based groups may operate within the code of their faith.

Then if a “gay” candidate is not allowed to join a Catholic Church based troop … The BSA can issue the person a paper on how to found their own troop. Or be given info about secular troops in the area that have no such restrictions.

The Church should brace itself for even more hostile lawsuits than it’s experiencing now.
Not so much for the wrongdoing of some errant members of its clergy - but for right doing.

In some circles this will be seen as a violation of civil rights.

Parading one’s sins RIGHT through the front door of a Church or Church sponsored activity must be met with “tolerance” and “understanding” and “solicitude” and “charity”
perhaps “approval” or “encouragement” in line with society’s new morality.

I hope this move is a principled one … and not just an excuse to drop the scouts on the behalf of someone in power who doesn’t like scouting or something. On that note these quotes were encouraging:

The Rev. Brian Grady wrote that the Boy Scouts are “condoning” homosexuality, which the church opposes.

“For a young boy to (have to) share a tent or be exposed to other boys who are openly homosexual is not only unjust, but immoral,” Grady wrote. “As a former Boy Scout, I know how uncomfortable it would have been to have to be in close proximity with boys that would perhaps be looking at me as more than just a friend.”

Grady said he was saddened to be “forced to make this decision.” In an interview, he said: “We welcome those individuals … but we also recognize certain actions are not to be encouraged.”

The effected Scout Troop leader responded negatively to this (perhaps understandably)

Troop 550 Scoutmaster Charlie Payseur said he and his assistant leaders were “livid” about the move. Grady has been very hospitable, Payseur said, but had not discussed the issue with them.

“It has never been an issue, nor would I turn a Scout away,” Payseur said. “I treat everyone the same.”

But Payseur’s next sentence revealed (to me) that he might not be the kind of scout leader to prevent the kind of incident Fr. Grady must head off at the pass.

It’s bothering me that people can’t just accept people for who they are." – Payseur.

I took “people” to be Fr. Grady and whatever parents or boys desired Catholic values to be a part of their scouting experience (not the challenging of them). This political statement causes me to be suspicious of Payseur. Where if he’d kept to just:

“It has never been an issue, nor would I turn a Scout away,” Payseur said. "I treat everyone the same.

The whole issue looks different. Although I’d ask why so understanding of a (theoretical) person who joins a Catholic troop while unnecessarily trumpeting a behavior contrary to Catholic morals - and yet “livid” when a Catholic priest makes a move to protect the youth of his parish?

This “openly gay” child thing raises a red flag. Campout one: Who sleeps in the tent with that boy? He sleeps alone? Lawsuit … he is being ostrasized. He is treated the least bit badly by anyone (these are boys of a certain age remember … full of competition, a degree of mischief and usually marked with some pecking order behaviors) and*** feels ***“discriminated against?”

At that point the whole of scouting gets brought to a stop and becomes a sensitivity training bee – or else " … and the leaders did ***nothing ***about it …"

 

[BroomWagon]

This is good. Now the scouts can be equally nice to Catholics.

And make a ruling that Church based groups may operate within the code of their faith.

Then if a “gay” candidate is not allowed to join a Catholic Church based troop … The BSA can issue the person a paper on how to found their own troop. Or be given info about secular troops in the area that have no such restrictions.

The Church should brace itself for even more hostile lawsuits than it’s experiencing now.
Not so much for the wrongdoing of some errant members of its clergy - but for right doing.

In some circles this will be seen as a violation of civil rights.

Parading one’s sins RIGHT through the front door of a Church or Church sponsored activity must be met with “tolerance” and “understanding” and “solicitude” and “charity”
perhaps “approval” or “encouragement” in line with society’s new morality.

I hope this move is a principled one … and not just an excuse to drop the scouts on the behalf of someone in power who doesn’t like scouting or something. On that note these quotes were encouraging:

The effected Scout Troop leader responded negatively to this (perhaps understandably)

But Payseur’s next sentence revealed (to me) that he might not be the kind of scout leader to prevent the kind of incident Fr. Grady must head off at the pass.

I took “people” to be Fr. Grady and whatever parents or boys desired Catholic values to be a part of their scouting experience (not the challenging of them). This political statement causes me to be suspicious of Payseur. Where if he’d kept to just:

“It has never been an issue, nor would I turn a Scout away,” Payseur said. "I treat everyone the same.

The whole issue looks different. Although I’d ask why so understanding of a (theoretical) person who joins a Catholic troop while unnecessarily trumpeting a behavior contrary to Catholic morals - and yet “livid” when a Catholic priest makes a move to protect the youth of his parish?

This “openly gay” child thing raises a red flag. Campout one: Who sleeps in the tent with that boy? He sleeps alone? Lawsuit … he is being ostrasized. He is treated the least bit badly by anyone (these are boys of a certain age remember … full of competition, a degree of mischief and usually marked with some pecking order behaviors) and*** feels ***“discriminated against?”

At that point the whole of scouting gets brought to a stop and becomes a sensitivity training bee – or else " … and the leaders did ***nothing ***about it …"

There’ll be minefields of political correctness. Thank goodness, some precautions are already being done.

Boy Scouts can’t wear uniforms at gay pride parade, official says

Boy Scouts and adult volunteers planning to wear their uniforms in Utah’s upcoming LGBT pride parade aren’t allowed to do so under the organization’s guidelines prohibiting advocating political or social positions, a leader with the program said Friday.

Rick Barnes, chief scout executive of the Great Salt Lake Council, said he learned of the plans for Sunday’s parade from a Scoutmaster, Peter Brownstein, organizing for Scouts and adults working with the Boy Scouts of America.

Thank goodness.

If they start getting a “rainbow” badge or things like that, they will lose a lot more and they are losing now.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Father Brian Grady is to be commended for:

Insisting that the model youth of his parish be given a model that is trustworthy;
Holding the BSA accountable for failing to be loyal;
Insisting that the parish’s ministries be helpful to his church’s youth;
Providing for a friendly environment for the boys that is free of sexuality;
Demanding that BSA be courteous to the religious liberties of its members;
Rejecting the un-kind use of coercion by BSA;
Providing that parish ministries be obedient to the law of God;
Protecting the cheerful and fear-free attitude which Pope Francis has noted is necessary for evangelization;
Making thrifty use of the resources of his parish;
Being brave against the BSA and its coercion, and the political pressure brought to bear by homosexual activists;
Requiring that those under his care demonstrate integrity and be clean; and, finally,
Observing piety and being reverent before God.

In short, Fr. Grady followed the Scout Law to the letter. BSA has not. Fr. Grady is a real Scout. The BSA are posers pretending to be Scouts.

 

[Cat_Herder]

I think there may very well be a danger in dropping sponsorship of scout troops, not being thought of. It leaves secular groups open to stepping in to sponsor troops.

Let them inherit both a dying program and the ensuing lawsuits, then.

However well the intentions, Christ did not separate Himself from the sinners of His time, much less the innocents that associated with the sinners.

The troops aren’t the sinners. BSA national is. And BSA national is stubbornly refusing the Gospel. So:
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 10:14[/BIBLEDRB]
As for the boys, they can be better served by a Catholic youth program–Fraternus, Columbian Squires, or especially this.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let them inherit both a dying program and the ensuing lawsuits, then.

The troops aren’t the sinners. BSA national is. And BSA national is stubbornly refusing the Gospel. So:
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 10:14[/BIBLEDRB]

Let them inherit? It seems more of turning their backs on those they participated with, in an effort to witness the goodness of those with faith in God.

Christ didn’t separate Himself from anyone, and stated He came for the sinner, not the righteous.

 

[BroomWagon]

Let them inherit both a dying program and the ensuing lawsuits, then.

The troops aren’t the sinners. BSA national is. And BSA national is stubbornly refusing the Gospel. So:
[BIBLEDRB]Matthew 10:14[/BIBLEDRB]
As for the boys, they can be better served by a Catholic youth program–Fraternus, Columbian Squires, or especially this.

Also, that quote I have already seen people use:

Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said to them: Suffer the little children, and forbid them not to come to me: for the kingdom of heaven is for such.

FNEEXPLORERS- picture there, we played chess, happy days!

 

[Cat_Herder]

Let them inherit? It seems more of turning their backs on those they participated with, in an effort to witness the goodness of those with faith in God.

Christ didn’t separate Himself from anyone, and stated He came for the sinner, not the righteous.

But there is zero you can do for BSA National. You can either serve God or mammon, and they decided that they cared more about getting donations from Intel and UPS than serving God.

The point is to serve the youth and facilitate their growth into leaders, not to bow down at BSA’s altars or chase a shiny Eagle Scout badge into the jaws of death.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But there is zero you can do for BSA National. You can either serve God or mammon, and they decided that they cared more about getting donations from Intel and UPS than serving God.

The point is to serve the youth and facilitate their growth into leaders, not to bow down at BSA’s altars or chase a shiny Eagle Scout badge into the jaws of death.

So, as Christians, we should separate ourselves from all sinners? That’s futile. We’re all sinners.

 

[Cat_Herder]

So, as Christians, we should separate ourselves from all sinners? That’s futile. We’re all sinners.

You saw what Jesus said about dusting your feet off and moving on. You also know what He said about those who cause children to stumble. Facilitating child abuse is definitely causing a child to stumble.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You saw what Jesus said about dusting your feet off and moving on. You also know what He said about those who cause children to stumble. Facilitating child abuse is definitely causing a child to stumble.

Where did Jesus ‘dust His feet’ and abandon a group of sinners? Separating ourselves, as Christians, from sinners is not giving them opportunity to hear the Word. The dusting of feet is prematurely taking place, as you describe it. In abandoning children, to the secular world, it’s more likely that more will stumble, without those to share His influence.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Where did Jesus ‘dust His feet’ and abandon a group of sinners? Separating ourselves, as Christians, from sinners is not giving them opportunity to hear the Word. The dusting of feet is prematurely taking place, as you describe it. In abandoning children, to the secular world, it’s more likely that more will stumble, without those to share His influence.

Nobody is sayIng to abandon the children. We want them to have a solid Catholic Youth development program. But that isn’t going to happen while the BSA is still taking up space in our parishes.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Nobody is sayIng to abandon the children. We want them to have a solid Catholic Youth development program. But that isn’t going to happen while the BSA is still taking up space in our parishes.

It seems more of separating our children, and abandoning the non-believer children, because of their known sins. While it maybe a solid Catholic youth development, it is not evangelizing.

 

[Cat_Herder]

It seems more of separating our children, and abandoning the non-believer children, because of their known sins. While it maybe a solid Catholic youth development, it is not evangelizing.

Ok, I understand your argument now–that if they leave BSA they lose the opportunity to evangelize non-Catholics at camp. But that sword cuts both ways. The BSA is getting taken over by the Mormons, who are both #1 in troop count and raised to get Catholics and everyone else to apostasize. As a Catechist I think it is a bad idea to expose our unprepared youth to that.

 

[johnnyc176]

Where did Jesus ‘dust His feet’ and abandon a group of sinners? Separating ourselves, as Christians, from sinners is not giving them opportunity to hear the Word. The dusting of feet is prematurely taking place, as you describe it. In abandoning children, to the secular world, it’s more likely that more will stumble, without those to share His influence.

Do you really think scout leaders will be able to share the Word? Do they talk about Church teachings? I’m not familiar with the scout organization. Is that something that is part of it?

 

[BroomWagon]

Ok, I understand your argument now–that if they leave BSA they lose the opportunity to evangelize non-Catholics at camp. But that sword cuts both ways. The BSA is getting taken over by the Mormons, who are both #1 in troop count and raised to get Catholics and everyone else to apostasize. As a Catechist I think it is a bad idea to expose our unprepared youth to that.

Some are saying too, some Mormons may be supporting more openness to homosexuality and same sex marriage because if that should pass, it would be hard to rule against polygamy.

 

[CaptFun]

Father Brian Grady is to be commended for:

Insisting that the model youth of his parish be given a model that is trustworthy;
Holding the BSA accountable for failing to be loyal;
Insisting that the parish’s ministries be helpful to his church’s youth;
Providing for a friendly environment for the boys that is free of sexuality;
Demanding that BSA be courteous to the religious liberties of its members;
Rejecting the un-kind use of coercion by BSA;
Providing that parish ministries be obedient to the law of God;
Protecting the cheerful and fear-free attitude which Pope Francis has noted is necessary for evangelization;
Making thrifty use of the resources of his parish;
Being brave against the BSA and its coercion, and the political pressure brought to bear by homosexual activists;
Requiring that those under his care demonstrate integrity and be clean; and, finally,
Observing piety and being reverent before God.

In short, Fr. Grady followed the Scout Law to the letter. BSA has not. Fr. Grady is a real Scout. The BSA are posers pretending to be Scouts.

AND

Broomwagon:

There’ll be minefields of political correctness. Thank goodness, some precautions are already being done.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Ok, I understand your argument now–that if they leave BSA they lose the opportunity to evangelize non-Catholics at camp. But that sword cuts both ways. The BSA is getting taken over by the Mormons, who are both #1 in troop count and raised to get Catholics and everyone else to apostasize. As a Catechist I think it is a bad idea to expose our unprepared youth to that.

So, we fear His Church can’t stand if it risks evangelizing? Think about it.

 

[BroomWagon]

So, we fear His Church can’t stand if it risks evangelizing? Think about it.

The Church already does more than enough for homosexuals. They don’t need to do more at risk to the Holy Mother Church. Yes, this is an area we need to improve on. All of us.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Do you really think scout leaders will be able to share the Word? Do they talk about Church teachings? I’m not familiar with the scout organization. Is that something that is part of it?

Can’t evangelizing come from our actions? Is love being shown by separating?