Bishop Robert Carlson - Sioux Falls

[grotto]

FromMi: About your story of the cathedral in Wisonsin, was it remodeled with or without the flaws? Also, what type of people are “fringe group”? Are they Roman Catholic parishoners or nonbelieving outsiders and if they were Roman Catholic parishoners, wouldn’t they have every right to have their concerns addressed by the authority of the Church?
What kind of camera did they use to get such a “wrong picture” of the CDW? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/396v.gif or http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_1_111.gif?

So many unanswered questions …

 

[frommi]

grotto:

FromMi: About your story of the cathedral in Wisonsin, was it remodeled with or without the flaws? Also, what type of people are “fringe group”? Are they Roman Catholic parishoners or nonbelieving outsiders and if they were Roman Catholic parishoners, wouldn’t they have every right to have their concerns addressed by the authority of the Church?
What kind of camera did they use to get such a “wrong picture” of the CDW? smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/396v.gif or http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/12/12_1_111.gif?

So many unanswered questions …

It was remodeled as the archbishop had intended it to be remodeled.

Fringe groups are generally any that decide they have to call themselves “authentic” anything. In this case, they indeed were Catholic, and yes they have a right to have things addressed. However, the structure of the church is not set up where a Bishop or Archbishop answers to a curial cardinal. So therefore, they appealed to the wrong person. A good canon lawyer will tell you that the Bishop is the moderator of liturgical life in his see, end of story.

 

[msproule]

frommi:

…the structure of the church is not set up where a Bishop or Archbishop answers to a curial cardinal. So therefore, they appealed to the wrong person. A good canon lawyer will tell you that the Bishop is the moderator of liturgical life in his see, end of story.

But what about Canons 360 and 361? Would a good lawyer ignore these? Unfortunately, it cannot be so simple.
:tsktsk:

A reasonably good Canon lawyer might recommend prudence in liturgical matters and argue against openly and hastily defying the Roman Curia, who according to Canon 360, “performs its function in [the Supreme Pontiff’s] name and by his authority for the good and service of the churches”.

 

[grotto]

frommi:

It was remodeled as the archbishop had intended it to be remodeled.

Oh, so it WAS flawed!

 

[PiusXIII]

FriendlySkeptic:

Hi,

I live in a different Michigan diocese, but my travels take me through Saginaw frequently. I’ve never attended Mass in Saginaw, so I’m a neutral outsider.

I have read about lots of abuses here and in the other Saginaw threads. I am interested in attending a Mass to observe for myself.

Please provide the name and city of the parish that you think exemplifies the worst within the diocese of Saginaw. After attending, I will report my observations here.

Thanks.

Haven’t been there in a while but last I knew, St. Mary in Hemlock has a nun that gives the homilies, preaches things that go against Catholic teaching and uses the honey bread for communion. That’s one of the worst examples I can name off the top of my head.

 

[msproule]

frommi:

It was remodeled as the archbishop had intended it to be remodeled.

…His Excellency is obviously a very big fan or organ music!

He replaced the former High Altar with the “High Organ”, allegedly for acoustic reasons: Article

 

[TheRaiders]

Friendly skeptic. Just reminding you that if you attend a mass and are not Catholic, you should not take Communion. It would be like spitting at Jesus.
I only tell you this because if you are going to a mass that abuses Church doctrine so much, they might not warn people against this.
That said, I recomend you take RCIA, get Baptised and Confirmed and then take Communion and you will be fulfilling Jesus’ wishes, and recieving the best spiritual food on earth.
Patrick

 

[frommi]

msproule:

…His Excellency is obviously a very big fan or organ music!

He replaced the former High Altar with the “High Organ”, allegedly for acoustic reasons: Article

Good sourcework msproule…what’s next, using the Limbaugh letter to back up the conservative point of view politically?

 

[ekindermann]

frommi:

Good sourcework msproule…what’s next, using the Limbaugh letter to back up the conservative point of view politically?

Seemed like a fine, descriptive article to me. The quotes were direct and the evidence is right there - even without the editorializing. What a shame.

 

[ekindermann]

PiusXIII:

Haven’t been there in a while but last I knew, St. Mary in Hemlock has a nun that gives the homilies, preaches things that go against Catholic teaching and uses the honey bread for communion. That’s one of the worst examples I can name off the top of my head.

Well, that describes Harrison as well.

 

[MrS]

PiusXIII:

Haven’t been there in a while but last I knew, St. Mary in Hemlock has a nun that gives the homilies, preaches things that go against Catholic teaching and uses the honey bread for communion. That’s one of the worst examples I can name off the top of my head.

Hemlock :bigyikes: part of the Hemlock Society ???

 

[msproule]

frommi:

Good sourcework msproule…what’s next, using the Limbaugh letter to back up the conservative point of view politically?

I knew I would take some heat from you for that. Believe it or not, my intention was not to show prejudice…I was simply trying to show “before” and “after” pictures. Originally, I pasted only pictures in the post but they were far too large. This was the only article I could find that had two good pictures.

If I wanted to show my true colors, I would have included the commentary of Helen Hull Hitchcock.
(oops…did I just do that? )

 

[8640]

TheRaiders:

Friendly skeptic. Just reminding you that if you attend a mass and are not Catholic, you should not take Communion. It would be like spitting at Jesus.

I apologize to any non-catholic readers in this forum. Recieving communion in the Catholic church is restricted to catholics because of the word “communion” - “in union”, if you are not in union, you shouldn’t act like you are. That’s all. It would be like a lie.

We use times like these to pray for a time when all “will be one”

 

[8640]

hi everyone,

I have been out of the loop for a week or two and just got caught up on about 50 posts. As I was reading them it occurred to me that in some of these arguments - both sides are right and both sides are wrong, with different emphasis for each.

The first who normally refer to themselves as “the right” or conservative have a strict following of the “rules and regulations” but as frommi has repeatedly pointed out, little humanness or Christian Charity.

The second side of these discussions refer to themselves as progressive, liberal, whatever. They very validly up hold the humanness of the faith as well as Christian charity and the experience of living their Catholic Life well. In addition, rules don’t seem to matter as much.

I would like everyone who can identify this look to the “other side” and realize what they can learn. Maybe what their difficiencies are. Rules and church heirarchy and government in this Church are very important and are a valid means for the Church because Christ said, What you bind on earth is bound in heaven. Yet when all we focus on is the “perfect Mass” we lose a sense of the human in the Church. This is what Vatican II was about. Read the very first lines of Gaudium et Spes: vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_cons_19651207_gaudium-et-spes_en.html

Yet the Church has to hold fast to regulations and rules because not only is she a world wide organization, her role is to bring all men to heaven - a very serious task indeed.

I hope this has given people pause for reflection. Before you jump at someone, ask yourself if they have anything to teach you.

 

[frommi]

msproule:

I
If I wanted to show my true colors, I would have included the commentary of Helen Hull Hitchcock.
(oops…did I just do that? )

Maybe we should just have Fr. McBrien and Mrs. Hitchcock have a boxing match for charity…winner take all

 

[singerlady]

8640:

hi everyone,

IThe first who normally refer to themselves as “the right” or conservative have a strict following of the “rules and regulations” but as frommi has repeatedly pointed out, little humanness or Christian Charity.

The second side of these discussions refer to themselves as progressive, liberal, whatever. They very validly up hold the humanness of the faith as well as Christian charity and the experience of living their Catholic Life well. In addition, rules don’t seem to matter as much."

Generalizations such as these certainly do not help. How on earth can you paint either side with such a wide brush?
Being conservative does not mean that rules take top priority, however the presence of rules most often eliminates chaos. There are extreme factions on either side, but to basically portray conservative people as heartless Pharisees lacking in Christian charity is, in itself, uncharitable . . . and inaccurate.

 

[frommi]

singerlady:

Generalizations such as these certainly do not help. How on earth can you paint either side with such a wide brush?
Being conservative does not mean that rules take top priority, however the presence of rules most often eliminates chaos. There are extreme factions on either side, but to basically portray conservative people as heartless Pharisees lacking in Christian charity is, in itself, uncharitable . . . and inaccurate.

I think the problem is that there does not exist a responsible conservative voice in the church.

Frankly, I hear conservative, and I think of EWTN, which has rhetoric on it that is not particularly helpful or charitable.

Now, is it fair to put everyone in that boat…no…you’re correct on that singerlady.

However…it’s also not fair to think that someone like me longs to see long hair hippie nuns giving homilies and telling people to use condoms from the altar.

Their is a certain nuance to a lot of this conversation that is often missing.

 

[8640]

singerlady:

Generalizations such as these certainly do not help. How on earth can you paint either side with such a wide brush?
Being conservative does not mean that rules take top priority, however the presence of rules most often eliminates chaos. There are extreme factions on either side, but to basically portray conservative people as heartless Pharisees lacking in Christian charity is, in itself, uncharitable . . . and inaccurate.

You know, you’re right, maybe I did paint with too big of a brush. But whether or not conservatives were charitable was not my point. In fact, I was wrong to include Charity in my statement.

Also please don’t be so defensive, I was complimenting the conservative concern for rules. I was just cautioning eitherside to be careful in their zeal to promote the good that they see to not neglect the good that the other party sees, thats all.

And there are examples, albeit not defining everyone, of very inappropriate statements on this thread. If you’d like I could rattle off a bunch. But ask anyone who has read my posts - I am very much concerned with the rules of the Church because I know they are not arbitrary and each has a theological reason. Just ask frommi, about a month ago we debated lay homilists. I have just had it with people not acting like catholic christians and I see some truths on both sides of the camp. One should avoid labeling himself liberal or conservative and ask themselves if they are catholic.

 

[8640]

frommi:

I think the problem is that there does not exist a responsible conservative voice in the church.

In the entire Church? Please explain because I think you are wrong in this point.

 

[MrS]

msproule:

I knew I would take some heat from you for that. Believe it or not, my intention was not to show prejudice…I was simply trying to show “before” and “after” pictures. Originally, I pasted only pictures in the post but they were far too large. This was the only article I could find that had two good pictures.

If I wanted to show my true colors, I would have included the commentary of Helen Hull Hitchcock.
(oops…did I just do that? )

Fr Vasko was the destructor of the parish of the youth… St Jude in Detroit. He has been around awhile with his wreckovations and is one of the most “active” of that group of 100 approved destroyers.

I guess St Jude was as close as he will ever get to Grotto (the adjoining parish), thank God