Bishop Robert Carlson - Sioux Falls

[PiusXIII]

singerlady:

Generalizations such as these certainly do not help. How on earth can you paint either side with such a wide brush?

I think the problem isn’t between conservative and liberal Catholics (besides I don’t like that term used to describe members of a church…let’s leave those terms to the politicians.)

I think the difference is between people who stress God’s justice vs. people who stress God’s mercy.

This discussion reminds me of something I recently heard Marcus Grodi say on EWTN. He said that there are some Catholics who over-emphasize God’s justice and ignore God’s mercy.

Then there are other Catholics who over-emphasize God’s mercy and ignore God’s justice.

We have to remember that God is both justice and mercy. I think we all have to do a better job of balancing the two things in our image of God and our approach to faith.

 

[grotto]

8640:

hi everyone,

The first who normally refer to themselves as “the right” or conservative have a strict following of the “rules and regulations” but as frommi has repeatedly pointed out, little humanness or Christian Charity.
…
The above statement is a clear example of one who is chastising people for defending their faith without any knowledge of what humaness they possess or the Christian charity they perform in their daily lives.

Our Faith calls for believing what we proclaim during the Creed which could hardly be described as “rules and regulations”.

If this rebuttal is too harsh in your view, take it with a spoonful of sugar and avoid trying to discourage defense of our Holy Catholic Church.

Discipline is not “meanness”.

 

[Walt_Oliver]

I strongly suggest that you get back on topic and stop being so critical of each other.

Thanks,

Walt

 

[8640]

grotto:

avoid trying to discourage defense of our Holy Catholic Church.

Defending the church is exactly what I am doing. I find it amazing how defensive people get when you suggest something to them. One of the previous posts which refered to Marcus Grodi’s quote was exactly what I was trying to get to. However, some think that the Church Militant means that we have to fight those around us instead of Satan and evil in the World in addition to the concupiscence inside of ourselves.

 

[ekindermann]

8640:

both sides are right and both sides are wrong, with different emphasis for each.

The first who normally refer to themselves as “the right” or conservative have a strict following of the “rules and regulations” but as frommi has repeatedly pointed out, little humanness or Christian Charity.

The second side of these discussions refer to themselves as progressive, liberal, whatever. They very validly up hold the humanness of the faith as well as Christian charity and the experience of living their Catholic Life well. In addition, rules don’t seem to matter as much.

I would like everyone who can identify this look to the “other side” and realize what they can learn.

I hope this has given people pause for reflection. Before you jump at someone, ask yourself if they have anything to teach you.

Well, now that you all got us yelled at , I’ll come back into the discussion. I think our moderator worries more about our feelings than we do.
Poor 8640 Sorry, you were trying to do a good thing. You were trying to say (I think) that both “sides” have good intentions, it’s just that they don’t get expressed very well??? However, the reason follks got defensive - as you correctly describe it - is because if you look at the two paragraphs each describing the “sides” you see that there is a “negativity” attached to the first group, labeled “the right”, they are said to be “showing little charity”. When you read the second paragraph re: the “progressive” there is no negativity there at all - charity is there, it’s just that they don’t care that much for rules (inference that the rules are important, but…they really aren’t that important.)
I am sure you don’t intend to side one way or the other - I really do not know which “side” you’re on, although I don’t want to go back & reread all your posts, cuz really it doesn’t matter, right? I consider all of us all having good intentions and wanting what is right. (those of us in this discussion for so long, already know each other pretty well, and have as a result also gotten comfortable with each other, so much so that we can “yell” at each other and be ok with it.)
Anyway when those of us have been getting very uncharitably treated by so many on the supposed “left” we do get a bit defensive. Their “charity” is only given to those who, like them want to “bend” rules, then they want us to be charitable. Words like uncharitable and pharisitical and intolerant have been used to shut us up from the get go. So one gets a little cranky.
As Fr. Corapi says, “It is not charity to pat one on the head when they are sinning, and say oh, that’s ok.” As you know, it is an act of charity to instruct the ignorant and admonish the sinner.
So, nice try, I know you were trying to be middle of the road or comprimising or bridge building or…but it’s just that you didn’t realize you sounded a lot like those who beat us up on a regular basis.
God Bless!
Beth

 

[8640]

Ekindermann

Thanks for trying to clear all this up. I never meant to imply any uncharity to anyone, it was a mistake on my part and I acknowledged it.

I’m nervous about saying anything the way I was attacked today but I feel that as far as individuals in the church go, one should look always look to align themselves faithfully to the church, but beware of becomming pharisees. I’m not trying to incriminate or accuse anyone. But the Pharisees were very concerned with the right way to “act.” Christ was worried about how to “be.” Which intimately included how to “act.” Otherwise he wouldn’t have given the “rules” that he did or tell the Apostles that what they bind on earth is bound in heaven. But I hear people say things like “If you’re not Catholic and you go to communion in a Catholic Church, it’s like spitting at Jesus.” And if anyone has ever read the last Canon of Canon Law they understand that the “Supreme Law of the Church” is the Salvation of Souls.

But I digress…the points I was trying to make got blown out of proportion, I was simply considering that we are always in need of conversion

 

[PiusXIII]

Back to the Bishop Carlson topic for a moment—I do have a question. I seem to recall someone saying on one of these threads that preaching by lay people (or nuns) wasn’t acceptable—that it wasn’t allowed according to the church.

However, I attended Mass at a Midland parish yesterday where a woman (may have been a nun, may have been a lay person–it wasn’t clear) gave the homily. Is that something Bishop Carlson should be contacted about?

 

[singerlady]

PiusXIII:

However, I attended Mass at a Midland parish yesterday where a woman (may have been a nun, may have been a lay person–it wasn’t clear) gave the homily. Is that something Bishop Carlson should be contacted about?

According to the documents, only ordained people may preach the homily during Mass. Lay people may not. (Nuns, incidentally, are also lay people.) I think, though, that I remember reading that Bishop Carlson wanted all lay preaching to stop by Lent of this year.

Also, 8640, please don’t think I was attacking you. I wasn’t. I thought then, and still do that you were making rather general statements about both sides and they sounded like the stereotypes I’ve heard for years. I do apologize if you feel I was harsh. I didn’t mean to be.

 

[8640]

PiusXIII:

Back to the Bishop Carlson topic for a moment—I do have a question. I seem to recall someone saying on one of these threads that preaching by lay people (or nuns) wasn’t acceptable—that it wasn’t allowed according to the church.

However, I attended Mass at a Midland parish yesterday where a woman (may have been a nun, may have been a lay person–it wasn’t clear) gave the homily. Is that something Bishop Carlson should be contacted about?

We had this discussion about 3 weeks ago, at the end of December. Only a deacon, priest, or Bishop may preach a homily. Lay people may preach in church, but not the homily. This is clearly defined in Canon Law.

I wouldn’t contact your bishop, I’ve read on these posts that he has mandated it stopped. So I’m sure he knows it’s going on.

 

[ekindermann]

singerlady:

I think, though, that I remember reading that Bishop Carlson wanted all lay preaching to stop by Lent of this year.

How do we know these things? Is info being disseminated through any channels or is it just “leaking”. When I inquired about how it went at the bishops meeting re: the GIRM (the latest meeting the bishop held with all of the priests) of the priest at our new parish, kindly told me that the bishop preferred to be the one making announcements re: changes. So I thanked him, bit my usually inquiring tongue, and decided I’m supposed to be: humble, obedient, and patient. (All 3 virtues I am sorely lacking!) Oh and not to forget, resolve to pray for the diocese and ALL it’s priests (even those I’d like to be violent towards at times! *that was for you frommi )

Anyway, now I have also heard through the grapevine that the priest I badly had it out with has announced that he’ll begin 4 minute teachings before Mass each Sunday re: GIRM changes. But I’ve not a clue as to what they are. He’s the one who directed my kids & I to stand in the middle of the Eucharistic Prayers on a Friday Mass in the small chapel. So of course I’m dying to know if we will all get to kneel again- without disparagement, sad looks at how pathetically pharisitical we are, etc. I think it was Saggal who said something about Lent changes. (??) So are we just out of the loop up here in the north country? Do all you city folk know more than we?
Beth

 

[grotto]

What is the result of silent tolerance of abuse? I am of the belief that it is destructive the longer it continues. After revealing the abuses patiently and continuing to pray for their resolve, isn’t it a lack of perseverence to stop fighting against the abuse and certainly if prayer is ceased? If the Bishop continues to be informed of legitimate, genuine abuses by his flock, he as the good shepherd can protect and care for them. A victim of wrongdoing is not expected to behave as though it does not hurt - they can say ouch, stop it!

 

[frommi]

8640:

I wouldn’t contact your bishop, I’ve read on these posts that he has mandated it stopped. So I’m sure he knows it’s going on.

The last I had heard, there have been a few meetings of the bishop, pastors, pastoral administrators on this topic…and there is has been significant conversation about implementation of this particular directive.

Long story short, no one is looking to disobey any directives, but that doens’t mean there isn’t a lot of resistance to the directive.

 

[grotto]

frommi:

The last I had heard, there have been a few meetings of the bishop, pastors, pastoral administrators on this topic…and there is has been significant conversation about implementation of this particular directive.

Long story short, no one is looking to disobey any directives, but that doens’t mean there isn’t a lot of resistance to the directive.

…

Since I do not have imagination enough to
come up with motivation on the part of those
desiring to continue lay homilies, could you describe what arguments are being raised?

 

[singerlady]

ekindermann:

How do we know these things? Is info being disseminated through any channels or is it just “leaking”. Do all you city folk know more than we?
Beth

I guess I’m guilty. I read it here about the changes being made before Lent. I now will retreat to my corner and continue sucking my thumb.

Have a great day all!

 

[frommi]

grotto:

…

Since I do not have imagination enough to
come up with motivation on the part of those
desiring to continue lay homilies, could you describe what arguments are being raised?

That is not something I’m privy to or really aware of, but the conversation doesn’t seem to be going away.

One thing I have heard is that there is confusion as to why the Bishop sent a seminarian around to preach on vocations (during the prescribed homily time), which is also against the official rubric, but won’t allow other forms of lay preaching.

 

[grotto]

frommi:

The last I had heard, there have been a few meetings of the bishop, pastors, pastoral administrators on this topic…and there is has been significant conversation about implementation of this particular directive.

Long story short, no one is looking to disobey any directives, but that doens’t mean there isn’t a lot of resistance to the directive.

…

From your above statement that “no one is looking to disobey…” I took it that you were vouching for a position taken. If there is a lot of resistance to the directive wouldn’t that be a form of disobedience? Maybe the resistance is subversive and behind closed doors because its wrong? The reasoning is so elusive IMO.

 

[ekindermann]

singerlady:

I guess I’m guilty. I read it here about the changes being made before Lent. I now will retreat to my corner and continue sucking my thumb.

Have a great day all!

No, you weren’t the only one. I’ve heard Lent a few times and like I said the local priest also inferred his teachings would go from now until Lent, meaning that then Lent will bring the (new/old???) changes. And I wasn’t criticizing, sorry if it sounded that way, (so get out of that corner, young lady!)

 

[singerlady]

LOL!!!

 

[MICATH]

And speaking of lay-preaching… how does this fit into the picture? “Next week, at the 11:30 am Mass, we will share this time of prayer for Christian Unity by welcoming our neighbors: Guest-preacher: Dr. David Pierce, Senior Pastor of Memorial Presbyterian Church; and The Memorial Presbyterian Church Chancel Choir, under the direction of Mr. Robert Sabourin.”

the full article can be found here: stbrigid-midland.org/pastors.htm

 

[grotto]

I am so sorry to hear it - that was pulled off in Gladwin with a Lutheran pastor - invited, etc. No offense intended to Lutherans but Roman Catholics today need our Faith reinforced, taught, practiced, evangelized, etc.,not absorbing protest - ant teachings!