Bishop says Notre Dame is wrong to honor Joe Biden

[JimR-OCDS]

zz912

What leads you to claim there are “probably” mitigating circumstances?

Its between him and his Bishop, who has not prohibited him from receiving the Eucharist.

Everything else is speculation and often lacking in charity.

Jim

 

[estesbob]

zz912

Its between him and his Bishop, who has not prohibited him from receiving the Eucharist.

Everything else is speculation and often lacking in charity.

Jim

How do you know he has not been prohibited from receiving communion? Surely you are not suggesting that barring excommunication or being prohibited from receiving communion the Church approves of an individuals behavior?

Joe Biden votes in support of abortion. He is clearly in direct violation of Church teaching and should not be honored by any Catholic institution/

 

[zz912]

zz912

Its between him and his Bishop, who has not prohibited him from receiving the Eucharist.

Everything else is speculation and often lacking in charity.

Jim

What leads you to claim that there are “probably” mitigating circumstances? What evidence do you have of this? I can find zero evidence for any mitigating circumstances. What information do you possess to make the claim that there are “probably” mitigating circumstances?

And NO, it is not between him and his bishop. The bishop of South Bend and Notre Dame university are involved in this as well. The bishop was explicit that this award was wrong and condemned it. The university is given an award to someone who supports intrinsic evils. That’s horrific and scandalous. While there MAY be some mitigating circumstance we are unaware of (although there is no evidence of it), that in NO WAY justifies giving him an honor. He supports evil.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

How do you know he has not been prohibited from receiving communion? Surely you are not suggesting that barring excommunication or being prohibited from receiving communion the Church approves of an individuals behavior?

Joe Biden votes in support of abortion. He is clearly in direct violation of Church teaching and should not be honored by any Catholic institution/

His Bishop has not publicaly told him not to receive and his parish priest continues to give him Holy Communion.

Fact is, many US Bishops have refused to use the Sacrament as a means of forcing a politician to behave.

Even Cardinal Dolan refused to prohibit pro-choice Catholic politicians from receiving and have said so publicly.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What leads you to claim that there are “probably” mitigating circumstances? What evidence do you have of this? I.

Again, its a private matter between him, his Bishop and his pastor.

We don’t have to know why he is not prohibited from receiving Holy Communion and its not our place to tell him otherwise.

Jim

 

[estesbob]

His Bishop has not publicaly told him not to receive and his parish priest continues to give him Holy Communion.

Fact is, many US Bishops have refused to use the Sacrament as a means of forcing a politician to behave.

Even Cardinal Dolan refused to prohibit pro-choice Catholic politicians from receiving and have said so publicly.

Jim

Which in no way means they endorse their behavior

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Which in no way means they endorse their behavior

Do you know of any US Politician that receives endorsement from Bishops?

Jim

 

[estesbob]

Do you know of any US Politician that receives endorsement from Bishops?

Jim

Of course not-but I know many US politician who’s actions are categorically condemned by the Church-Biden being one of them

 

[CaptFun]

Just to update everyone on Biden’s position;

Although I don’t agree with Biden, this is where he is coming from.

As far as being asked to speak at ND, I have no problem with that, for although his pro-choice position in politics is wrong, he has been a public servant, a good husband, father and practiced his faith as best as he could.

Don’t throw stones unless you are without sin.

Jim

Thanks for that last line … although the context of THAT was some guilty hypocrites were
trying to get Jesus to immediately take a stand on the Death Penalty (sanctioned by scripture) or to fly (seemingly) in the face of the law and be “too merciful”.

More germane to THIS incident IMO would be this formal teaching of the Church:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P80.HTM

***II. Respect for the Dignity of Persons

---

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284** Scandal** is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil.

the person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter.

He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death.

Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity

***by reason of the authority of those who cause it *** or the weakness of those who are scandalized.

**It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: **

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."85

Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others.

Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account:

he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.86

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

As “friendly” is an antonym for “hostile” (as in “hostile takeover”) … I’d be in favor of a friendly takeover of Notre Dame’s administration by the Bishop.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Of course not-but I know many US politician who’s actions are categorically condemned by the Church-Biden being one of them

But Biden has not been excommunicated so his actions are not necessarily condemned as you think.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Thanks for that last line … although the context of THAT was some guilty hypocrites were
trying to get Jesus to immediately take a stand on the Death Penalty (sanctioned by scripture) or to fly (seemingly) in the face of the law and be “too merciful”.

More germane to THIS incident IMO would be this formal teaching of the Church:

vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P80.HTM

As “friendly” is an antonym for “hostile” (as in “hostile takeover”) … I’d be in favor of a friendly takeover of Notre Dame’s administration by the Bishop.

The Bishop can not take over ND, its a private institution, not owned by the Church.

Even the religious order which founded ND, had papal approval and the Bishop could not order them to do anything. They come under the direct authority of the Pope.

Jim

 

[estesbob]

But Biden has not been excommunicated so his actions are not necessarily condemned as you think.

Jim

99.9% of those who reject the teachings of the Church are not excommunicated. So what?

This is not a matter of judging-we need only look at his public actions to know he is violation of Church teaching on abortion. His voting record is public. He does not deny it.

 

[zz912]

Again, its a private matter between him, his Bishop and his pastor.

We don’t have to know why he is not prohibited from receiving Holy Communion and its not our place to tell him otherwise.

Jim

You’ve changed your argument from discussing Biden being given a Catholic award, to whether his bishop is upholding canon law. A Catholic award should be given to faithful Catholics who support and uphold the Church. Biden openly and obstinately OPPOSES the Church.

 

[rmartensjr]

Vice President Biden, like President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and many others, are public servants who do not know the difference between serving the public and killing the public. Our youngest brothers and sisters, our nation, and our Church – in all its institutions – deserve better than that.

priestsforlife.org/africanamerican/blog/index.php/fr-pavone-blasts-notre-dame-decision-to-honor-vice-president-joe-biden

 

[Ender]

Its between him and his Bishop, who has not prohibited him from receiving the Eucharist.

Given that Biden’s actions have been quite public, the issue is not simply between him and his bishop. The laity are justified in wondering why a bishop appears unwilling to act in accord with the beliefs he professes. Either publicly supporting abortion is a grave evil or it isn’t. If it is then canon law calls for a sanction: it prohibits the minister from offering communion.

Everything else is speculation and often lacking in charity.

The speculation is justifiable, and is not about Biden’s actions - which are known - but about his bishop’s inaction. There appear to be only two explanations: either there is nothing wrong with Biden’s actions, or there is something wrong with the bishop’s failure to act in response to them.

Ender

 

[JimR-OCDS]

99.9% of those who reject the teachings of the Church are not excommunicated. So what?

This is not a matter of judging-we need only look at his public actions to know he is violation of Church teaching on abortion. His voting record is public. He does not deny it.

And the voting record is more complex than those who condemn him can understand.

One Bishop says Biden should not be honored by Notre Dame, but he’s not in authority over Notre Dame so his words are moot.

Jim

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You’ve changed your argument from discussing Biden being given a Catholic award, to whether his bishop is upholding canon law. A Catholic award should be given to faithful Catholics who support and uphold the Church. Biden openly and obstinately OPPOSES the Church.

I haven’t changed anything, stop trying to tap dance around the conversation with your accusations.

You asked for evidence for an issue that is between Biden and his Bishop and pastor.

That evidence is not public record and no one’s business.

Jim

 

[estesbob]

I haven’t changed anything, stop trying to tap dance around the conversation with your accusations.

You asked for evidence for an issue that is between Biden and his Bishop and pastor.

That evidence is not public record and no one’s business.

Jim

So Catholic are not allowed to comment on public figures who publicly flaunt Church teaching?

 

[zz912]

You asked for evidence for an issue that is between Biden and his Bishop and pastor.

I asked for evidence to support your claim that he “probably” has mitigating circumstances for his support for intrinsic evil. I am aware of ZERO evidence to any mitigating circumstances. So please give the evidence you have that you used to base your “probably” claim upon.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

So Catholic are not allowed to comment on public figures who publicly flaunt Church teaching?

They are to comment providing they have all the facts and understand them correctly

However, in US politics, people are generally loose on facts and quick to judge, which is why we have such a pathetic field of candidates to chose from this election.

Jim