Bishop says Notre Dame is wrong to honor Joe Biden

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So Catholic are not allowed to comment on public figures who publicly flaunt Church teaching?
Its certainly fair to comment. At the end of the day, I do think it is between his bishop, his pastor and him. Seems to me that most bishops have declined to refuse communion under these kinds of circumstances. At least some have said so publicly. Some have also said the opposite. I think Catholics have a right to agree or disagree with those decisions and say so. But, at the end of the day, it is their decision to make.
 
I asked for evidence to support your claim that he “probably” has mitigating circumstances for his support for intrinsic evil. I am aware of ZERO evidence to any mitigating circumstances. So please give the evidence you have that you used to base your “probably” claim upon.
I said there is probably mitigating circumstances on why his Bishop has not prohibited him from receiving Holy Communion.

Not referring to the Notre Dame award, which his Bishop has no authority on and has not said anything about it anyway.

Jim
 
They are to comment providing they have all the facts and understand them correctly

However, in US politics, people are generally loose on facts and quick to judge, which is why we have such a pathetic field of candidates to chose from this election.

Jim
Loose with facts??? Biden has voted in support of abortion every single chance he got. What mitigates that?
 
Its certainly fair to comment. At the end of the day, I do think it is between his bishop, his pastor and him. Seems to me that most bishops have declined to refuse communion under these kinds of circumstances. At least some have said so publicly. Some have also said the opposite. I think Catholics have a right to agree or disagree with those decisions and say so. But, at the end of the day, it is their decision to make.
I am not for withholding communion. What i object to the attitude we see among many that if a pro-abortion candidate goes to communion that means its OK to support pro-abortion candidates. Or like when ted Kennedy received a Catholic funeral we were told that meant everything he did was acceptable to the Church
 
I am not for withholding communion. What i object to the attitude we see among many that if a pro-abortion candidate goes to communion that means its OK to support pro-abortion candidates. Or like when ted Kennedy received a Catholic funeral we were told that meant everything he did was acceptable to the Church
I agree that whether or not a politician receives communion says nothing about the acceptability of his political positions. It may say something about the pastoral approach towards those the Church disagrees with, but it says nothing about the acceptability (or seriousness) of the disagreement.
 
Loose with facts??? Biden has voted in support of abortion every single chance he got. What mitigates that?
There hasn’t been legislation directly supporting abortion in a very long time, so I’m not sure your accusation is correct.

Jim
 
The Bishop can not take over ND, its a private institution, not owned by the Church.

Even the religious order which founded ND, had papal approval and the Bishop could not order them to do anything. They come under the direct authority of the Pope.

Jim
Private institutions HAVE been “taken over” in hostile takeovers though. As you probably know.

As Notre Dame is known as a Catholic University … and the Bishop of an area is known as the Church’s leader in that area … it’s a matter of speculation of what a Bishop “could not order” or could not “do” in that area.

Once a Pope declared the Jesuit order suppressed (1759 - early 1800s). Their missions became property of … other than the Jesuits.

There is much IMO that a Bishop could do. This current Bishop is doing THIS.

More to come?

To me your conclusion is a nice representation of a “secular view” of the situation.

Thanks for that … I suppose. 😉
 
CaptFun;
Private institutions HAVE been “taken over” in hostile takeovers though. As you probably know.
In business, not the Church taking over a private institution.
As Notre Dame is known as a Catholic University … and the Bishop of an area is known as the Church’s leader in that area … it’s a matter of speculation of what a Bishop “could not order” or could not “do” in that area.
No its not speculation, its canon law that is the issue.

A religious order, like the Fathers of the Holy Cross, which founded ND, are under direct authority of the Pope. Their General Provincial. reports to the Pope, not to the local Bishops.
Once a Pope declared the Jesuit order suppressed (1759 - early 1800s). Their missions became property of … other than the Jesuits.
Right, thats the Pope’s authority, not a local Bishop.
There is much IMO that a Bishop could do. This current Bishop is doing THIS.
More to come?
To me your conclusion is a nice representation of a “secular view” of the situation.
Thanks for that … I suppose.
There have been threats by various local Bishops to remove the Catholic Association from various institutions. This happened down in Arizona as the Bishop removed the Catholic Affiliation from St Joseph’s Catholic Hospital.

The same threat has been given to some local Catholic Colleges in my area, but the threats were never followed up.

Jim
 
And the voting record is more complex than those who condemn him can understand.

One Bishop says Biden should not be honored by Notre Dame, but he’s not in authority over Notre Dame so his words are moot.

Jim
Hew has a 100% Rating from NARL, pro-choice America. About the only people disputing his record on abortion on those Catholics trying to rationalize supporting pro-abortion politicans
 
Hew has a 100% Rating from NARL, pro-choice America. About the only people disputing his record on abortion on those Catholics trying to rationalize supporting pro-abortion politicans
They give democrats those ratings all the time, but then the KKK endorsed Trump, do you think he is pro-KKK values ?

Jim
 
They give democrats those ratings all the time, but then the KKK endorsed Trump, do you think he is pro-KKK values ?

Jim
The ratings are based on his votes He doesn’t deny devotes to support abortion -why does anyone else?
 
CaptFun;

No its not speculation, its canon law that is the issue.

A religious order, like the Fathers of the Holy Cross, which founded ND, are under direct authority of the Pope. Their General Provincial. reports to the Pope, not to the local Bishops.

There have been threats by various local Bishops to remove the Catholic Association from various institutions. This happened down in Arizona as the Bishop removed the Catholic Affiliation from St Joseph’s Catholic Hospital.

The same threat has been given to some local Catholic Colleges in my area, but the threats were never followed up.

Jim
A small number of colleges formerly listed as Catholic are now publicly identified as non Catholic. The Cardinal Newman Society, on a national level, and on a local level lay groups, have petitioned bishops to take that action. Taking the Catholic name off would help, but not enough, as the Holy Cross Fathers provide “cover” so parents and alumni still send money and students there.

The Holy Cross Fathers are very dependent on laity around the country to raise funds and support vocations. If laity and Catholic organizations were, on a national scale, stop supporting this religious order, and encourage potential seminarians to seek out a different religious order, then the various leaders in that community would demand this group at Notre Dame either bring about restoration of Catholicism, or if they can’t do that, to separate itself totally from the university.

An explicitly secular university, where students and parents know exactly what they are getting, is much less dangerous than a university that is supposedly Catholic, and intermittently a little Catholic, in parts. Unfortunately, at this late date, ND is probably a lost cause. The orthodox clergy currently at ND will find important ministry at an authentic Catholic institution or parish.
 
Loose with facts??? Biden has voted in support of abortion every single chance he got. What mitigates that?
Agreed. I don’t see room for nuance. Here’s the kicker, he admits that life begins at conception, yet still thinks its ok to allow the mother to kill the child. And what’s that weird reverence for the Supreme Court? Those 8 are ruling on any basis at all in the absence of Joe’s legislative branch. Scandal.
BIDEN: My religion defines who I am. And I’ve been a practicing Catholic my whole life. And it has particularly informed my social doctrine. Catholic social doctrine talks about taking care of those who can’t take care of themselves, people who need help. With regard to abortion, I accept my church’s position that life begins at conception. That’s the church’s judgment. I accept it in my personal life. But I refuse to impose it on equally devout Christians and Muslims and Jews and–I just refuse to impose that on others, unlike my friend here, the congressman. I do not believe that we have a right to tell other people that women can’t control their body. It’s a decision between them and their doctor, in my view. And the Supreme Court–I’m not going to interfere with that.
Source: 2012 Vice Presidential debate , Oct 11, 2012
ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm
 
One Bishop says Biden should not be honored by Notre Dame, but he’s not in authority over Notre Dame so his words are moot.
To be more accurate, his words are either correct or incorrect. If they are correct then Biden should not be given this award. If they are incorrect then it would appear that this USCCB statement issued on the subject in 2004 was incorrect as well. “The Catholic community and Catholic institutions should not honor those who act in defiance of our fundamental moral principles,” …“They should not be given awards, honors, or platforms that would suggest support for their actions.”
Either that statement is right, and Biden should not be honored, or it has become meaningless because the bishops refuse to stand together to honor it.
That evidence is not public record and no one’s business.
Au contraire: the record is public, which is in fact the whole point. There would be no concern about withholding communion if his actions were private; it is precisely because they are public that they satisfy the criteria of the law…which *requires *that he not be given communion.

Ender
 
Agreed. I don’t see room for nuance. Here’s the kicker, he admits that life begins at conception, yet still thinks its ok to allow the mother to kill the child. And what’s that weird reverence for the Supreme Court? Those 8 are ruling on any basis at all in the absence of Joe’s legislative branch. Scandal.

ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Abortion.htm
This is the problem with alot of Catholic politicians. They separate their faith from politics when their faith should be interwoven in their political decisions. Biden has scandelized so many because if this, Catholics and non-Catholics alike. In the meantime, children in the womb are being slaughtered.

Also reason, science, and faith tells us that its a little person in that womb. The politicians that do not give that child a right to life are blind and dumb.
 
This is the problem with alot of Catholic politicians. They separate their faith from politics when their faith should be interwoven in their political decisions. Biden has scandelized so many because if this, Catholics and non-Catholics alike. In the meantime, children in the womb are being slaughtered.

Also reason, science, and faith tells us that its a little person in that womb. The politicians that do not give that child a right to life are blind and dumb.
Well said, LittleFlower378.
 
commenter
A small number of colleges formerly listed as Catholic are now publicly identified as non Catholic.
Correct because those colleges became independent secular controlled colleges as the religious orders that ran them, sold them. They kept the Catholic indentity until the Bishop removed it.

Such is not the case for Notre Dame which is still controlled by the Congregation of the Holy Cross, which has Papal approval and comes under the authority of the Pope, not a Diocesan Bishop. Its why the local Bishop has a hard time dealing with them.
The Cardinal Newman Society, on a national level, and on a local level lay groups, have petitioned bishops to take that action. Taking the Catholic name off would help, but not enough, as the Holy Cross Fathers provide “cover” so parents and alumni still send money and students there.
The Cardinal Newman Society is not a religious order. Its was and named after Cardinal Newman, but is not under the direct authority of the Pope, but the local Bishops in the dioceses where they exist. A Bishop has the authority to shut them down.
The Holy Cross Fathers are very dependent on laity around the country to raise funds and support vocations. If laity and Catholic organizations were, on a national scale, stop supporting this religious order, and encourage potential seminarians to seek out a different religious order, then the various leaders in that community would demand this group at Notre Dame either bring about restoration of Catholicism, or if they can’t do that, to separate itself totally from the university.
Well support for the Holy Cross Fathers has not stopped and there are plenty of alumni members to Notre Dame to prevent a secular take over, or the renunciation of their Catholic Identity. It won’t happen in my lifetime and having Joe Biden receive the award isn’t going to make it happen either.
An explicitly secular university, where students and parents know exactly what they are getting, is much less dangerous than a university that is supposedly Catholic, and intermittently a little Catholic, in parts. Unfortunately, at this late date, ND is probably a lost cause. The orthodox clergy currently at ND will find important ministry at an authentic Catholic institution or parish.
Notre Dame is a University and prides itself on providing a top level liberal education,(liberal not in the political terms). The University has people of all denominations attending and even its board of directors has non-Catholics on it. However, its president is still a priest of the Congregation of the Holy Cross.

Anyway, CAF members have little to say about what Notre Dame decides and I see the similar situation at a local college in my area, Holy Cross. The Bishops have reacted to some of their guests and activities and thankfully the college has honored the Bishop’s requests.

Jim
 
This is the problem with alot of Catholic politicians. They separate their faith from politics when their faith should be interwoven in their political decisions. Biden has scandelized so many because if this, Catholics and non-Catholics alike. In the meantime, children in the womb are being slaughtered.

Also reason, science, and faith tells us that its a little person in that womb. The politicians that do not give that child a right to life are blind and dumb.
Agreed-they are all to ready to invoke their faith when pushing for increases in social spending but when to comes to abortion they clam its not right to force their faith on others.
 
Ender;
To be more accurate, his words are either correct or incorrect.
Even correct, they have no authority on the decision ND makes.
If they are correct then Biden should not be given this award.
And its a grey area on whether the Bishop’s judgment of Biden is in fact correct.

Apparently the heads at Notre Dame and his own Bishop, have a different opinion.
Au contraire: the record is public, which is in fact the whole point.
We’re talking about what takes place between Biden, his Bishop and Pastor. That is not public record.
There would be no concern about withholding communion if his actions were private; it is precisely because they are public that they satisfy the criteria of the law…which *requires *that he not be given communion.
Biden’s Bishop has not told him to not receive Holy Communion.

Just because a Bishop outside of his dioceses says he should not be allowed to receive Holy Communion, that Bishop has no authority over Biden’s own Bishop, and hence, Joe Biden.

We might disagree, but that’s the reality of how canon law works.

And for the record, I’m not a Biden fan, never have been.

But then I’m not a fan of adulterers and prostitutes, but would not have them proverbially stoned to death either.

Jim
 
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