This is the problem isn’t it - a problem of authority? Seems to me that the Pope does not think that what he said contradicts the Church’s teaching. Others disagree. Who has the authority to decide if his statement contradicts binding Church teaching? Seems to me it is the guy that made the statement. At a minimum, he is in a better position to make that determination than anyone on this thread, or any individual bishop.
As someone who’s been a practicing Catholic for my 60 odd years, this type of attitude is a modern thing. It’s morphed out of the protest against Vatican II. I can’t imagine thinking I’m wise, scholarly and holy enough to know better than all the Popes about things, but trust me, that used to only be the attitude in Protestants. But its an ironic quirk of modernists.Motherwit:
No! Not because you don’t like it. Because it contradicts the timeless teaching ofcthe church. That’s the whole point, if you haven’t grasped that, then you haven’t understood the criticism.
Better than ALL the Popes? I see no one claiming that.
I’ll go there. I know way more than any of the Popes about some things. Doom metal, anyone?
Since dissent of the lay person is a post VII phenomena that started small with Pope Paul VI, I’ll say at least all the post VII popes.Motherwit:
Better than ALL the Popes? I see no one claiming that.
Well in instances where vii Pope disagree with literally ALL their predecessors for 1950 years… I do scratch my chin and raise an eyebrow.
Funny, but also proves a useful point! Full marks.So what does the church teach about civil unions? Were it clear, there would be understanding of how it (the Pope’s statement on civil unions) does or can sit alongside the church’s prior statements on the topic. But since there is no such understanding, it is evidently unclear. Wouldn’t you agree?
I think that the words the Pope used are clear. I agree that it is unclear whether the Church actually has a teaching on whether or not civil states should grant certain rights to gay couples. It seems to me that the Pope’s comments tell me that would not be adverse to Church teaching. All that said, I think any ambiguity lies in what (if any) official position the Church takes on civil unions, not in the Pope’s comments, which were clear.
That is my point. The church has taken an official position on civil unions. If the Pope means to retract or alter those, he should be explicit about it, because his assertions have no greater weight than those of his predecessors. All assertions can’t stand simultaneously if some are in opposition to others.
Has it? There was a CDF document. Many Catholics on this forum do not even accept encyclicals as “official,” some deny that even councilar documents are “official,” some go so far as to call parts of the Catechism optional, but a note from the Pope’s staff is binding teaching?
I think he has been pretty explicit, but I agree that portion of things - whether there is an official Church teaching - could be clarified. Given the Pope’s statements, I think we all know what that clarification will be.
Yet, he hasn’t said anything to counter the media’s claim
That is the rub, his statement goes against other documents. It isn’t just someone claiming they know better
What claim? The claim that the Pope supports civil unions - that is true. Is there some other media claim that is troubling you?
