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benjohnson
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I appload Bishop Vasa and his efforts to shepard Catholic children.
Our LCMS school requires a simular document from all teachers and it’s been a great way to filter out teachers who don’t have the children’s best interests at heart.
Our LCMS school requires a simular document from all teachers and it’s been a great way to filter out teachers who don’t have the children’s best interests at heart.
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jay29
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The Leadership Conference of Women Religious should have to sign one as well. 
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jwinch2
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The Leadership Conference of Women Religious should have to sign one as well.
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sw85
Guest
These contracts have always and everywhere existed for the purpose of reducing scandal.
Therefore they are typically enforced when scandal erupts, i.e., when an unmarried female teacher suddenly gets pregnant.
Therefore the fear that Vatican gendarmes or diocesan ninjas dispatched from the chancery will bust down your doors in the middle of the name and ransack your house looking for condoms or whatever is positively delusional. That’s not how these things go; this isn’t “The Crucible.” Since everyone knows how these things go, I can’t imagine this calculated hysteria is anything but deliberate dishonesty in the service of perversion, or else the usual hawking of liberalism as a superior good to, you know, Catholicism as its always and everywhere existed, by people who ought to know better.
If you want to fornicate, don’t be a Catholic school teacher. But if you insist on doing it, all you have to do is not get caught fornicating.
Therefore they are typically enforced when scandal erupts, i.e., when an unmarried female teacher suddenly gets pregnant.
Therefore the fear that Vatican gendarmes or diocesan ninjas dispatched from the chancery will bust down your doors in the middle of the name and ransack your house looking for condoms or whatever is positively delusional. That’s not how these things go; this isn’t “The Crucible.” Since everyone knows how these things go, I can’t imagine this calculated hysteria is anything but deliberate dishonesty in the service of perversion, or else the usual hawking of liberalism as a superior good to, you know, Catholicism as its always and everywhere existed, by people who ought to know better.
If you want to fornicate, don’t be a Catholic school teacher. But if you insist on doing it, all you have to do is not get caught fornicating.
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SonSearcher
Guest
Listen. I proudly may state that rarely if ever have used lol in any conversation my entire life… but I am proud to say now I have done it.
I am just glad I had no drink or food in my mouth or else my computer would be needing a cleaning.
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oldcelt
Guest
I agree with your reading of the document. If so, I think the Bishop will find that such mandates, while probably legal, are unworkable in reality. If he truly intends to terminate those who refuse to sign, then I wish him luck finding replacements…he’ll need it.
To my way of thinking, if the teachers are doing their jobs, not publicly opposing Catholic doctrine, and teaching that doctrine accurately when it is required by their position, then the rest is non of the Bishop’s business.
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fix
Guest
Right and it is truth in advertizing.
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SonSearcher
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But I think the existence of this document suggests that some **aren’t **doing their jobs, or they are publicly opposing Catholic doctrine, or they are not teaching the doctrine accurately, or all of the above.
If it is over reaching and illegal… lets face it…it’s California and this is America. Somebody will surely sue the diocese and then we can say it was dealt with appropriately.
I am a public school teacher and would love to go the private Catholic School route, and I would frame this thing and put it on a wall in my house. So I will gladly volunteer to fill a spot that might be vacant.
Again as I have tried to maintain so far on this thread. You don’t state to be Catholic… but we who do identify as Catholics should be praying for this Bishop and unifying behind him. He is the Sheppard of his diocese and we should assume that the Holy Spirit is there in his decision.
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oldcelt
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I agree…this will be hashed out, and if the teachers are misrepresenting Catholic doctrine in the course of their duties, then the Diocese has every right to call them on the carpet or terminate them. I am less supportive of the idea of monitoring their private lives. Having spent most of my life as a Catholic, I understand the concept of wanting to support your Bishop, but, in a case like this, I don’t believe it is a requirement.
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SonSearcher
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Of course it is not required, but our clergy has been discredited so much throughout the media over the course of the past few decades. I feel this Bishop’s action is a breath of fresh air. As a poster earlier stated can we really believe the diocese has the resources or the intent of “monitoring” their private lives?
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TomFromMD
Guest
“If we find out you’re pregnant, you’re fired.”
Not the best way to encourage life, is it?
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vames
Guest
If someone is really rich and spoiled, he can do that. But nobody said that the bishop will start to spend other people’s money to buy wiretapping and eavesdropping equipment. Someone who wants to exercise power over any kind of community can do it easily by using informers, whistleblowers, i.e. the true and tested power of gossip. It’s not so hard to find a few zealous people to inform you that the belly of some non-Catholic female unmarried teacher seems to suspectly grow or that some non-Catholic male teacher dared to buy condoms at the local store. Or that other non-Catholic heretic teachers voted for Obama / spoke well about gay marriage / talked about their intention to divorce / expressed doubts about hell.
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sw85
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Does capitulating to hostage-takers result in more or fewer hostage situations?
This isn’t a serious objection, and I suspect you know it isn’t. You are seriously suggesting Catholic school teachers might be fired because of gossip and suspicion, despite the immense liability this would bring to the school and the diocese. Can you name any situation in which a man was fired because of the suspicion that he bought condoms??? Of course not. Because this is a fantasy, the result of reading The Crucible too many times.
Again, these contracts exist to deter scandal, so they tend to be enforced when scandal erupts, which means it’s relatively easy to avoid getting fired because of them. All you have to do is (a) do what you were hired to do, and (b) do what you agreed to do, and (c) if you really can’t on principle do either of those things, just take the minimal precautions necessary so as not to get caught.
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vames
Guest
In fact it is. It has already happened in German Catholic institutions.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10432226&postcount=65
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SonSearcher
Guest
Der Spielgel is roughly the equivalent to TIME and NEWSWEEK here in America. I would hardly call it unbiased, objective reporting. They seem to have an ax to grind in this article you cite.
Also the entire thing is riddled with inflammatory language that presents only one side of the discussion. Such as the sub-title of the article below.
“Rape victims are being turned away, and divorced employees are losing their jobs. Catholic hospitals, kindergartens and nursing homes – which are primarily tax-funded – are causing problems for Germany’s social welfare state. But some politicians are fighting back.”
So according to this…the Catholic Church is causing Armageddon in Germany… but wait here come the politicians the heroes!
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sw85
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Those aren’t instances of gossip. Those are things people actually did and said that were contrary to the terms of their employment.
When you go around talking about your divorce, that’s giving scandal. Giving scandal is a fireable offense. Therefore, people who go around talking about their divorce, when they have the care of children’s souls and contracts that require them not to take that responsibility lightly, should be fired. What’s the problem with this?
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fix
Guest
The problem is that it does not fit the secular narrative.
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vames
Guest
So how do you know that the German director of kindergarten was fired precisely because she talked too much about her divorce? A divorce is something difficult to hide. People take off their wedding ring, one of the spouses takes their luggage and leave the house, the husband and wife aren’t seen together anymore, their children talk about it witht heir friends. These are things that can be noticed in any community, without the need of any loud comments from the involved persons.
But no, it’s not impossible to lose your job because of gossip. A gossip can lead an authority to investigate. If the investigation confirms the gossip, the culprits are punished.
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TomFromMD
Guest
Well there’s a stretch of an analogy. Unless you’re willing to only hire married women (which probably isn’t legal), you’re going to have some single women teaching. And many of them will be sexually active, no matter what you have them sign. Many single people are sexually active without intending to get pregnant, no matter how wise that is. They take the risk that they might get pregnant, and sometimes they end up that way. Your position forces her to pick between her kid and the job. A new child, but no job, no spouse, and (since the firing would be for cause) no unemployment benefits. For many women, that would mean “goodbye kid”.
If you think signing a piece of paper is going to change her behavior once she’s employed, you’re kidding yourself. Yes, you’ll have a few less single teachers choosing to work at Catholic schools, but you’ll have a few more dead babies too. No thanks.
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