Bishops remain focused on 'responsible restrictions' on gun ownership

[epan]

I wouldn’t know if they’re a minority for sure since most of the Catholics I talk to about the faith are here on CAF -who are generally knowledgeable, but I can assume that the majority are uneducated in the faith as a whole.

…most, from what I’ve heard, know surprisingly little about the faith. Many are CINO.

Rest assured, they are. Polls show it. Consider that Spain and brazil have passed gay marriage laws. Brazil is the largest catholic country on earth. Spain is something like 95% catholic.

It would appear that the majority opinion on CAF is the minority opinion among Catholics.

What intrigues me is, what are the ramifications of this apparent fact?

 

[TEPO]

You don’t really think that such a highly educated group of men, religious or otherwise, could ever be that naive, do you?

That’s not being naive. They’re doing their job, which is strictly spiritual.

So when they make blatant political statements, they’re not really aware of what they’re
saying? They’re on a “whole other level?” They just simply cannot comprehend the difference between theological and political statements?

I’ve seen no political statement made by the Bishops here. Just a request to preserve life in light of a tragedy.

You don’t really believe that either do you? They all sit down, craft an international public statement, yet none of them can see the political possibilities of such statements?

Its not their job to keep within any political agenda… You think it is?

 

[TEPO]

Rest assured, they are. Polls show it. Consider that Spain and brazil have passed gay marriage laws. Brazil is the largest catholic country on earth. Spain is something like 95% catholic.

It would appear that the majority opinion on CAF is the minority opinion among Catholics.

What intrigues me is, what are the ramifications of this apparent fact?

It’s surely true that the majority opinion on CAF is the minority among Catholics. But since we follow the Pope, we can rest assured that we’re not the CINO’s.

 

[nitesnake]

That’s not being naive. They’re doing their job, which is strictly spiritual.

You can pretend that they don’t have a political stance on this issue, but it’s obviously not the case, which I have pointed out at least four times in just this thread alone. In case you didn’t see it, I’ll post it again:

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

I’ve seen no political statement made by the Bishops here. Just a request to preserve life in light of a tragedy.

Again, read the above. Here’s
the entire statement, should you want to read it.

Its not their job to keep within any political agenda… You think it is?

No. It’s also not their job to pretend that they don’t have a political agenda regarding gun control when they obviously do. For you or anyone to try and suggest otherwise gets dangerously close to dishonesty.

 

[TEPO]

You can pretend that they don’t have a political stance on this issue, but it’s obviously not the case, which I have pointed out at least four times in just this thread alone. In case you didn’t see it, I’ll post it again:

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

Again, read the above. Here’s
the entire statement, should you want to read it.

No. It’s also not their job to pretend that they don’t have a political agenda regarding gun control when they obviously do. It gets dangerously close to dishonesty.

Well, I support all those measures… thankfully, they’re almost all already in place so all we need to do is enforce our current regulations more vigorously and accept the Bishops call for us to care for the mentally ill…

I believe when someone is convicted of a crime, they should be evaluated for mental illness… Those who are criminally insane should be registered on a national database like those guilty of sex crimes. The mentally ill should never be kept in jails, but rather should be sent to ‘asylums’ which would be converted from prisons. They should be treated there and released when the courts have evaluated their progress. They would need to see their counselors monthly for the rest of their lives and would be banned from taking residence in any home where weapons are present. They would register with the authorities should they ever relocate. They would need to get the medical care they are prescribed to be allowed to live outside the asylum.

…if we did that, all the Bishops requests would have been met.

 

[nitesnake]

That’s not being naive. They’re doing their job, which is strictly spiritual.

You can pretend that they don’t have a political stance on this issue, but it’s obviously not the case, which I have pointed out at least four times in just this thread alone. In case you didn’t see it, I’ll post it again:

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

I’ve seen no political statement made by the Bishops here. Just a request to preserve life in light of a tragedy.

Again, read the above. Here’s
the entire statement, should you want to read it.

Its not their job to keep within any political agenda… You think it is?

No. It’s also not their job to pretend that they don’t have a political agenda regarding gun control when they obviously do. It gets dangerously close to dishonesty.

 

[nitesnake]

Well, I support all those measures… thankfully, they’re almost all already in place so all we need to do is enforce our current regulations more vigorously and accept the Bishops call for us to care for the mentally ill…

First you imply that they are not involved in political discussions of any kind, they are only concerned with spiritual matters and Catholic doctrines; then you admit that they indeed make political statements, then you even admit that you totally support their non-existent political positions.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

C’mon. They, (The USCCB) made obvious political statements concerning this issue. I (and others) have brought that to your attention several times, yet you’re unwilling to deal with it. Why?

People have placed their personal view above the advice given by the Bishops. It has appearances that those people have politicized it to justify dismissing the suggestions of our spiritual leaders.

I accept the advice and agree with it, so you saying I’m unwilling to deal with it is wrong.

 

[ProVobis]

.but guns and gun ownership is NOT the problem.

Unless we worship them as false gods. Violation against the FIRST Commandment.

 

[TEPO]

First you imply that they are not involved in political discussions of any kind, they are only concerned with spiritual matters and Catholic doctrines; then you admit that they indeed make political statements, then you even admit that you totally support their non-existent political positions.

Oldcathilicguy from post 180 had it right →

Given that Politics (big P) is an integral part of our society and is the main tool by which we shape and maintain our society their statement is going to be Political (big P) if is going to be effective or meaningful. What the good Bishops did not do was present a political (little p; as in lib vs. cons, this party over that party) statement.

It seems like what you’re suggesting is that the Church should have no opinions on anything outside of the Mass, including Abortion, gay marriage, incest, etc., because thats getting into “politics”. Is that what you think?

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

It seems like what you’re suggesting is that the Church should have no opinions on anything outside of the Mass, including Abortion, gay marriage, incest, etc., because thats getting into “politics”. Is that what you think?

They should care more about that than gun rights. If only they put as much effort into liturgy as they do into grandstanding for welfare and social security, we might not have the crisis in the Mass that we do today.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

They should care more about that than gun rights. If only they put as much effort into liturgy as they do into grandstanding for welfare and social security, we might not have the crisis in the Mass that we do today.

Grandstanding? The men of the Church speak on issues, Christ taught, feed the hungry, give shelter to the poor, care for the sick, etc. and it’s grandstanding?

You may want to review the forum rules. :tsktsk:

 

[TEPO]

They should care more about that than gun rights. If only they put as much effort into liturgy as they do into grandstanding for welfare and social security, we might not have the crisis in the Mass that we do today.

But numbers 1 - 4 can be seen the same as all the measures we currently have in place… They haven’t called for anything new in particular.

What’s new is the way concept number 5 is being linked together in regards to firearms and crime. That’s how I see it anyways…

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

Grandstanding? The men of the Church speak on issues, Christ taught, feed the hungry, give shelter to the poor, care for the sick, etc. and it’s grandstanding?

You may want to review the forum rules. :tsktsk:

That’s very different from taxing other people to pay for it and giving it out without discretion.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That’s very different from taxing other people to pay for it and giving it out without discretion.

As a Christian, I am proud to be a part of a country where I can influence our politicians with those things that Christ taught, and that some of my taxes go to help others. No one cares when someone says, ‘I don’t want my taxes going for nuclear weapons, or conventional bombs.’

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

As a Christian, I am proud to be a part of a country where I can influence our politicians with those things that Christ taught, and that some of my taxes go to help others. No one cares when someone says, ‘I don’t want my taxes going for nuclear weapons, or conventional bombs.’

As for me, I am forced, in essence, to give to an organization that I don’t agree with and think has been an abject failure and fixing the problem it was intended to solve. I’d rather give my money to a Catholic charity that would help people rather than just hand out money.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

As for me, I am forced, in essence, to give to an organization that I don’t agree with and think has been an abject failure and fixing the problem it was intended to solve. I’d rather give my money to a Catholic charity that would help people rather than just hand out money.

It’s off topic, but where did Christ teach to qualify before helping? The Catholic Church, from Bishops to the Pope, have said the problem is large enough that government assistance is a necessary part of helping those less fortunate. They have called on the highest form of government by calling on nations.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

It’s off topic, but where did Christ teach to qualify before helping? The Catholic Church, from Bishops to the Pope, have said the problem is large enough that government assistance is a necessary part of helping those less fortunate. They have called on the highest form of government by calling on nations.

So we should give money to the drunk to the detriment of his soul rather than letting the lack of money help correct the habit?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So we should give money to the drunk to the detriment of his soul rather than letting the lack of money help correct the habit?

We have to remove the beam from our eye first…

 

[ProVobis]

As for me, I am forced, in essence, to give to an organization that I don’t agree with and think has been an abject failure and fixing the problem it was intended to solve. I’d rather give my money to a Catholic charity that would help people rather than just hand out money.

Power to tax comes with the 16th Amendment.

Right to own gun comes with the 2nd Amendment.

These two Amendments can be repealed or modified by another Amendment.