Bishops rip HHS mandate That Forces Coverage of Birth Control, Abortion Drugs

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Suudy said:
There you go again CMatt. Nobody here or anywhere has suggested that Baptism does not leave an indelible mark, and that those baptized Catholic are Catholic. You keep bringing this up, but for what reason? If nobody is making this argument, why do you keep referring to it?
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Because someone posted the bishops should endorse the Republican candidate for POTUS. And some here will say if a Catholic does not abide by this or that, that they are not Catholic.
 
What i find quite ironic is that about 99% percent of Catholic’s embrace premarital sex and contraception in which many also go to mass, many of them don’t know or understand the teaching’s or simply don’t think they are binding. The watering down of Church teaching and quite simply a lack of it has caused so many to either flock to secular society or simply call and believe themselves to be good Catholic’s even though they cherry pick on almost everything. This is due to these same clergy (Not specifically of course but in general) not doing enough to evangelize and teach Catholic’s on the why’s of these teaching’s and how they relate to the Natural Law and it’s consistency with reality. Heard something similar to this point on RealCatholicTV which is though was very good, as he called it “An Army with no Soldier’s” If 99% of Catholic’s don’t know or accept such truth’s how can we expect them to defend it
 
More great leadership from a great bishop with a proven track record.
 
Ridgerunner said:
So, bottom line, then, if the Church doesn’t feel itself able to go along with what a ruler wants, it needs to shut its activites down. Is that really what you’re saying?
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No I actually am not saying it needs to shut down. It unfortunately can. But no law is perfect and the institution would need to decide if they want to shut down over one part of it or look at more of the total picture. I actually would find it sad if a Catholic institution were to shut down over this. But no idea what you mean by the “ruler” in this case. The US was still a free democratic society the last I checked with officials elected by its people. In the case of the POTUS thru the electoral process the US uses and Cabinet members for instance chosen by the POTUS elected. And many on CAF are working to change the political landscape in 2012. The pendulum tends to swing in the US back and forth over time.
 
CMatt25 said:
I square it by giving them a choice on whether they want to close or remain open and care for the sick.
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And isn’t that a sad choice to have to make? See Catholic Charities in Boston, Springfield IL.

Is the greater good here forcing people to violate their conscience…for what? A play to the political base?

On the record, Matt, do you support or oppose this act by the administration?
 
Paddy1989 said:
What i find quite ironic is that about 99% percent of Catholic’s embrace premarital sex and contraception in which many also go to mass, many of them don’t know or understand the teaching’s or simply don’t think they are binding. The watering down of Church teaching and quite simply a lack of it has caused so many to either flock to secular society or simply call and believe themselves to be good Catholic’s even though they cherry pick on almost everything. This is due to these same clergy (Not specifically of course but in general) not doing enough to evangelize and teach Catholic’s on the why’s of these teaching’s and how they relate to the Natural Law and it’s consistency with reality. Heard something similar to this point on RealCatholicTV which is though was very good, as he called it “An Army with no Soldier’s” If 99% of Catholic’s don’t know or accept such truth’s how can we expect them to defend it
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I know. I also watched that video and it was completely right.
 
Suudy said:
There you go again CMatt. Nobody here or anywhere has suggested that Baptism does not leave an indelible mark, and that those baptized Catholic are Catholic. You keep bringing this up, but for what reason? If nobody is making this argument, why do you keep referring to it?
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Altho I could speculate, I would like to know the answer to this as well.
 
average_Joe said:
%between%Bishop Fabian Bruskewitz of Lincoln, NE says to be prepared to accept suffering.
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I wonder if the administration sees this as a win-win. They win if the Church capitulates. They win if the Church refuses and shuts down its operations (they can step in and “rescue” those “abandoned” by the Church). They win if the Church fights back and pays any fines (more revenue).

I don’t see any scenario where the administration sees this mandate as a bad thing. Except if the outrage is sufficient to oust Obama.
 
The main thing that bothers me in this situation isn’t so much the subject of the ruling but the fact that it takes away our freedom to follow our religious convictions. If a person thinks war is wrong he has always been able to avoid combat. Other provisions have been made. This is denying a similar right. It demands that people follow the law even if they think it is morally wrong. I see a big fight coming on. I hope I’m wrong.
 
CMatt25 said:
No I actually am not saying it needs to shut down. It unfortunately can. But no law is perfect and the institution would need to decide if they want to shut down over one part of it or look at more of the total picture. I actually would find it sad if a Catholic institution were to shut down over this. But no idea what you mean by the “ruler” in this case. The US was still a free democratic society the last I checked with officials elected by its people. In the case of the POTUS thru the electoral process the US uses and Cabinet members for instance chosen by the POTUS elected. And many on CAF are working to change the political landscape in 2012. The pendulum tends to swing in the US back and forth over time.
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And just what part “of the total picture” do you want Catholic institutions to look at, and why do you think they should go against conscience about providing for abortions? Because Obama wills it that they have to if they want to continue in their missions?

You can call it free and democratic if you wish, but there are obviously ways around the public will. The people of this country did not want Obamacare, yet Obama and his people did it anyway. In the course of doing it, they vested the Secretary of HHS with the power to order insurance companies to do pretty much what the president pleases. Now, are you going to tell me the American public really wanted that? Are you telling me the American public wanted Obama to order Sebelius to force Catholic institutions (or other religious groups) to go against their consciences in a very fundamental way, or to do anything remotely like it?

No, Americans didn’t even know Obama’s people empowered himself in that manner with Obamacare. Probably most of the congress that voted for it didn’t, because they didn’t read it. You don’t have to declare a man a king and put a gold crown on his head for him to rightly be called the “ruler”. Did the Soviets ever actually have the slightest control over their “freely elected” rulers? Do the Iranians? “Rulers” often rule by deceit within democratic frameworks, and that’s exactly what has happened in this case. One man ordered this, and one man only.
 
Catholic faith is being terribly attacked.
Please go to US Conference of Catholic Bishops site and follow the link to submit your concern:
usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/index.cfm

It is useless to whine but take no action to correct a terrible situation.

Can you imagine all Catholic employers are forced by Obama Care law to provide their employees coverage of abortion? Can you imagine your pastor provide abortion coverage to all your church staff? If your pastor does not buy abortion insurance coverage for the secretary, the youth minister, the data manager, the CCD director, he will be sued and put into jail. Can you imagine that?? Obama Care forces it. The unimaginable is happening. US bishops speak up against it. usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/conscience-protection/index.cfm Obama Care is attacking our Catholic faith from the root. We cannot let it happen.

It needs all of us, you and me to take action to have our protesting voice heard, and help to overturn the immoral law.

Each of us need to call, write, email our congress to protest this law and to urge protection of conscience. We also need to** spread the word and urge all others to do the same.
**
We must take action. Please help! Please click the link and send your email to your Congress representatives.
 
MJE said:
This whole mess confuses me. Why would Catholic leaders believe Obama (or the Democrat leadership) is sensitive to conscience? This is a man who went to the floor in the Illinois senate to publicly argue for partial-birth abortion. Pres. Obama stated early in his admin. something along the lines that “USA is not a Christia nation”. There are several ways to interpret this but it should not have been ignored. Has he ever defended basic Judeo-Christian principles? The Democrats have compromised on many issues but never on abortion or abortion-related issues.

Be shrewd as serpents & simple as doves comes to mind.
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Does anyone not get why the democrat party is called the “Party of Death?”
 
CMatt25 said:
For some Christians maybe because Christ said in Matt 25 to care for the ill (NAB, GNT). He didn’t say to assure care is only in reach for some specified lower percentage of the population. And if care is to be provided, someone has to pay for it. A woman who can’t afford care on her own, might want it to protect her health and save her life.
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:rolleyes:

It’s been explained to you several times. There are several ways to help the poor. Abortion and contraception are always wrong.
 
scipio337 said:
Well, Matt, how do you square faith based hospitals closing rather than violate their conscience? I’m sure that will do a great deal to helping the poor and underserved.

Thank you for this wonderful president you’ve given us.
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👍
 
Joe_5859 said:
The bishops are actually speaking out en masse against this awful regulation and people are still using it as an opportunity to criticize the bishops. Does anyone else see the irony there?
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The American bishops have been in political lockstep with the Democrat party for decades supporting everything from gun control to nationalized healthcare, which, the last time I looked, was opposed by 52% of We, the People. This business started a long time ago, and I for one have not forgotten their pastoral letter “Human Life in Our Day” which qualified church teaching on the matter of contraception. Well, now we see the aftermath and fruit of our disobedience. I hope God will be merciful to us as we suffer.

Even among their peers, it is noted that Church leaders abdicated their first responsibility -in short, our shepherds should have been teaching the faith. Enough of the politics because without a true Catholic identity and faith (which has been steadily declining for 40 plus years,) many can now expect to be ill-prepared to fight the battle ahead of us.
On the state of American Catholicism:
“We need to stop over-counting our numbers, our influence, our institutions and our resources, because they’re not real. We can’t talk about following St. Paul and converting our culture until we sober up and get honest about what we’ve allowed ourselves to become. We need to stop lying to each other, to ourselves and to God by claiming to ‘personally oppose’ some homicidal evil - but then allowing it to be legal at the same time.”
AB Chas Chaput - March, 2009
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scipio337 said:
Cognitive dissonance.

Where are all of the Obama supporting Catholics on this issue? They’re strangely quiet.
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I was thinking the same thing. They can no longer twist the words of the Bishops now. The battle lines are being drawed.
 
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