Bishops with flash cars

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Like I said, I think it’s okay for a Bishop to have an above average car. I also think it’s fine for Dorthy to ask this question here, to solicit opinions. She’s right, this is a discussion board, and it’s a perfectly reasonable question.👍
 
Like I said, I think it’s okay for a Bishop to have an above average car. I also think it’s fine for Dorthy to ask this question here, to solicit opinions. She’s right, this is a discussion board, and it’s a perfectly reasonable question.👍
Of course it’s fine for her to post the question, and her opinion, that is what a discussion board is for.

And, it’s fine for others to answer it with their own opinion. There wouldn’t be much “discussion” on a discussion board otherwise.

Those who disagree with her premise are voicing their opinion and giving examples of why they believe as they do.
 
Of course it’s fine for her to post the question, and her opinion, that is what a discussion board is for.

And, it’s fine for others to answer it with their own opinion. There wouldn’t be much “discussion” on a discussion board otherwise.

Those who disagree with her premise are voicing their opinion and giving examples of why they believe as they do.
Yes, but some are going “Dorthy, tsk, tsk, tsk, shame on you for asking a question that anti-Catholics like to ask” And some are saying “shame on your naughty prayer group to be discussing this instead of praying!” I don’t think that’s necessary. Prayer groups also discuss things, and have questions, and this is a good, thought-provoking one that a reasonable person might ask. Nothing really wrong with asking it, and answering it is okay too. I just think you should be able to disagree without scolding and chastizing, maybe not you personally, but some people on this thread.
 
I just think you should be able to disagree without scolding and chastizing, maybe not you personally, but some people on this thread.
Oh, yes, I was one who said that perhaps the prayer group should not do so much gossiping.

It was the way in which it was presented-- tsk tsk’ing the **bishop **actually. That, I object to. Not to asking the question.
 
Granted, we don’t know the specifics of any one particular person’s life, and we all know that it is a sin to attempt to judge the state of another person’s heart. The Bishop’s cardiologist brother may have given him the car. A Catholic dealer may have given it to the diocese. The Bishop may have inherited $10 million from his grandmother and given $9.9 million of it to the Catholic Worker house down the street, and bought the car with the rest. Who knows? BUT…

As a general rule we should all live modestly. Our society seems to have forgotten the difference between want and need. Christians, especially those in high office, should be models of proper behavior and decorum. Living a luxurious lifestyle is not in keeping with Christian values as this Christian understands them.

Perhaps if a Bishop were to live in a modest house, drive a modest car, and carry himself like a servant rather than a master perhaps he could lead us to places we would never go otherwise.
 
Perhaps if a Bishop were to live in a modest house, drive a modest car, and carry himself like a servant rather than a master perhaps he could lead us to places we would never go otherwise.
Perhaps.
But you do realize that ‘the bishop’, especially of a large diocese (like London), cannot ‘just’ leave that big old palatial mansion without having to do an awful lot of work about it. He himself, remember, does not ‘own’ that mansion.

Nor does he necessarily ‘own’ the car, etc.

We live not in a vacuum but as repositors, as well as depositors, of what went before us and will go on after us.

This is not to be mean, persnickety, judgmental etc. but. . .

Let us be totally honest. If–if–a given bishop (God bless them) somehow did manage to pull off the above, there would be those who would (and rightly so) feel that said bishop was not only somehow ‘more’ righteous in ‘appearance’ but in actuality. We’ll call him “Bishop Bob”. So Bishop Bob lives very simply and the people say, “Bishop Bob is just like one of us, not flashy, very ‘Christ like’.”

However, next diocese over is Bishop Bill. Bishop Bill lives in the mansion and drives the more expensive car. Bishop Bill hears people say, “Why can’t Bishop Bill be like Bob? He thinks he is 'better than us”. . .(even though Bishop Bill thinks nothing of the sort).

Thing is, suddenly there is a big famine or natural disaster in both places. The poor are hungry, cold, and homeless. Bishop Bob is also hungry, cold, and homeless.

Bishop Bill, OTOH, has his mansion, where he can now fit in quite a few homeless people (and does). There is a large pantry so Bishop Bill can feed quite a few people (and does). Bishop Bill can raise funds on the parish investments etc. because he is their trustee (and does).

Suddenly, Bishop Bill does not seem so bad. Turns out that when the chips were down, he had something concrete to offer.

It is one thing to have a genuine call to voluntary poverty. But (as has been pointed out). . .diocesean bishops are not bound to this, and given the circumstances of most Western dioceses (I again point out that the mansions are not owned by the bishops themselves!) and their appurtenances, most bishops could not ‘scale down’ to whatever level the ‘church police’ (and I’m not pointing a finger at anybody) decide represents “appropriate” ‘Christ like behavior’.

I personally think that bishops have a tough enough time trying to be both leader and servant. Look at how many souls they are responsible for–and then look at the diametically opposite expectations most of their flock seem to hold for them! On the one hand, they are to be faithful in upholding doctrine–on the other, half the people disagree with the other half on what the doctrine is. They are supposed to be examples of Christ like living–but half the people disagree with the other half on exactly how Christ lived. . .was he ‘turn the other cheek’, let-people decide, God is love, vegetarian pacifist ’ or was he “admonish the sinner, repent and believe, prayer, fasting and alms soldier in a holy war?”

Really, you cannot please all the people all the time. I think we should give the bishop the benefit of the doubt. He may be ‘wrong’ but how can ‘we’ know–we don’t know his heart, and we don’t know what God has told him to do.
 
Look, no one said that being a Bishop is easy, pleasant, fun or even rewarding. It’s supposed to be challenging. Maybe even a burden. “Take up your cross…” and all that.

I’ve never been a “bash the Bishop” kind of guy. I know they have a tough row to hoe, and I think they are doing a fine job leading the Church on the whole. But the question is not about whether the Bishops are doing their jobs well or poorly, the question was about whether they should be living lavishly. I say no.

If in your scenario Bishop Bill were to feel a bit embarrassed by his luxurious lifestyle when compared to Bishop Bob, maybe that’s a good thing. Maybe if Bishop Bill had to do some soul searching about the example he was setting for his flock maybe he would learn something we could all benefit from.

Granted–Bishop Bill did not buy the mansion or the Benz out of his own pocket. Granted–in London the house has probably been owned for by the diocese for 250 years. BUT what an example Bishop Bill could set for his flock if he chose to. Maybe instead of hearing, “Catholic Bishop covers up for child molesters” on the news we could hear, “Catholic Bishop sells his mansion, his Benz, gives the money to the poor, and calls on all rich Catholics to do likewise.” Or “Palatial Episcopal residence now a hospice. Bishop moves into modest one bedroom flat.” It would be a nice change don’t ya think.

Would it be easy? Nope. Would it make his brother Bishops uneasy? Yep. Is it the right thing to do? Maybe someone will try it and we’ll see.

Here’s hoping.
 
Like I said, I think it’s okay for a Bishop to have an above average car. I also think it’s fine for Dorthy to ask this question here, to solicit opinions. She’s right, this is a discussion board, and it’s a perfectly reasonable question.👍
Thank you 🙂
 
I shouldn’t be knocking our bishops; they’re doing a good job in representing the Catholic Church. I was just trying to make a point about clergy in high authority and the simple life v luxury living. I admit that I have exaggerated things.

On the whole, I know that our bishops do a wonderful job in enhancing our faith as well as a great deal of work promoting the Church and doctrine of truth.

(Please help me to rid these thoughts of mine. I am now thinking about the Vatican and its billions of dollars whilst there are people in the world starving to death. Please God take these thoughts away. I am confused and wrong).
 
I shouldn’t be knocking our bishops; they’re doing a good job in representing the Catholic Church. I was just trying to make a point about clergy in high authority and the simple life v luxury living. I admit that I have exaggerated things.

On the whole, I know that our bishops do a wonderful job in enhancing our faith as well as a great deal of work promoting the Church and doctrine of truth.

(Please help me to rid these thoughts of mine. I am now thinking about the Vatican and its billions of dollars whilst there are people in the world starving to death. Please God take these thoughts away. I am confused and wrong).
Look at the Old Testament. God HIMSELF told the Jewish people to build a lavish tabernacle and a very, very, very expensive temple.

God is not opposed to building nice things for His honor and glory.
 
You should not assume that they are purchasing a new car.

In our diocese, a car dealership gives our Bishop a car for his use-- a fleet car. It is replaced periodically by the dealership. We also know several priests who have had cars bought for them or given to them by generous parishioners.

Find out the facts before you assume anything.
Exactly! Good point! 👍
 
I shouldn’t be knocking our bishops; they’re doing a good job in representing the Catholic Church. I was just trying to make a point about clergy in high authority and the simple life v luxury living. I admit that I have exaggerated things.

On the whole, I know that our bishops do a wonderful job in enhancing our faith as well as a great deal of work promoting the Church and doctrine of truth.

(Please help me to rid these thoughts of mine. I am now thinking about the Vatican and its billions of dollars whilst there are people in the world starving to death. Please God take these thoughts away. I am confused and wrong).
If you’re going to knock the bishops, knock them where they deserve to be knocked – for example, not leading us forcefully to resist abortion. Not expanding Catholic schools in a nation that has an education crisis. Not thoroughly explaining to all the faithful the necessity of following Catholic morality.

Knock them for that – that’s where the failings are.
 
And please remember that the bishops really can’t “just sell the mansion”. First, it isn’t their’s to sell, is it?
 
I went to Friday prayer meeting today and the discussion was about our Bishops and their cars. The question that was raised: Why does our Bishop (and mostly all Bishops) drive a top of the range executive saloon car instead of a basic model? (He usually gets a new model every three years).

Both sides greed that having a new car every three years was acceptable, in that, the car would reasonably be expected not to break down and thus avoid the Bishop missing any of his engagements.

However, each side disagreed upon the choice of model i.e. expensive luxurious model v basic model. One side argued that you couldn’t expect the Bishop to turn up for engagements in a basic model because that it would look inappropriate for his office/post.

The other side argued that (on Palm Sunday) when Jesus rode into Jerusalem, He did so on the back of a colt at His request. He didn’t request to be carried upon a throne (Mark 11:1-11). Jesus might also have thought of which was appropriate? :ehh:
In another Diocese I lived in, the Bishop had a very nice luxury towncar with a driver. Just one of the perks of being Bishop 🙂
 
In another Diocese I lived in, the Bishop had a very nice luxury towncar with a driver. Just one of the perks of being Bishop 🙂
Very cushy number!! 😉 I bet many priests dream of becoming a bishop. Both do a good job (vocation) though.
 
And please remember that the bishops really can’t “just sell the mansion”. First, it isn’t their’s to sell, is it?
Actually, legally it is. I believe all church property in a diocese is in the name of the bishop. It belongs to the Church, but I think the name on the title is “(Arch)bishop of …”
 
Actually, legally it is. I believe all church property in a diocese is in the name of the bishop. It belongs to the Church, but I think the name on the title is “(Arch)bishop of …”
“Objection Your Honor…speculation.” 😃

Please note reference before this gets overruled. :coffeeread:
 
First off, Bishops like diocesan priest, are not required to take vows of poverty. Second, as mentioned before, in many instances, dealerships donate the vehicle to the dioceses.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen, in his last days said that one thing he felt he should’ve eliminated from his life was his love for fine foods and cadillacs. He use to dine at the finest restaurants and he drove a cadillac.

From my understanding, Cardinal O’Malley of Boston, drives a Toyota Carola. Also. when he became Bishop of Boston, he sold the Bishops mansion and moved into an apartment in the South End. He also sold the mansion on Cape Cod, which was donated to the diocese for retreats and conferences, which Cardinal Law had converted into his own private summer residency.

Jim
 
Hello Jim

You’ve made some good points:
First off, Bishops like diocesan priest, are not required to take vows of poverty.
Perhaps not absolute poverty - but they’d get a lot more respect if they chose to cut down on the good life a little.
Second, as mentioned before, in many instances, dealerships donate the vehicle to the dioceses.
In reality - a lot more bishop’s cars have to be paid for via the collection plate.
Archbishop Fulton Sheen, in his last days said that one thing he felt he should’ve eliminated from his life was his love for fine foods and cadillacs. He use to dine at the finest restaurants and he drove a cadillac.
Very commendable – but just a shame that he left it so late to say i.e. after he enjoyed all the luxuries.
He also sold the mansion on Cape Cod, which was donated to the diocese for retreats and conferences, which Cardinal Law had converted into his own private summer residency.
Cardinal Law – shame on you.
 
Now there is nothing wrong with a Bishop having nice cars and houses and servants- he is the Bishop after all :D!

Just so long as he doesnt neglect his office.
 
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