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az_4_faith
Guest
Seventy + some posts and the info contained within them.
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dorothy_smith
Guest
It is, although on the other hand, it stresses me quite a lot because I keep tabs on when he comes and goes. I live on my own and am not too well emotionally. I tend to get paranoid imaging where he goes to. Sometimes, he away for days at a time. I used to think that he and his assistence priests were spying on me but my health worker tells me otherwise. I wish that they’d all leave me alone.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
The question should be, "would Jesus be seen wearing a Rolex watch, while stepping out of a luxury car, as he enters into a plush restaurant to dine with the elite?
Answer to that question will give you an answer to how a Bishop’s lifestyle should emulate.
Jim
Answer to that question will give you an answer to how a Bishop’s lifestyle should emulate.
Jim
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bengal_fan
Guest
and i would say to those who can give a lot away AND buy expensive things that they should buy less expensive things and give MORE away. i believe that God will ask us why we had spare change jars and extra coats when our brothers and sisters had nothing. if everyone on earth was completely provided for, then, by all mean, live as comfortably as you like. until then though, wasting money is against what God has called us to.
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bengal_fan
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something the apostles and early church leaders spoke out against! are you saying that priests and bishops are today’s pharisees?? i might be a protestant but i certainly don’t want to lump all priests, bishops, ministers into that category.
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Jerry_Mitchner
Guest
Huh??? What’s this business about our Lord wearing an expensive timepiece?! Who knows the specifics of what he wore?
In our Lord’s time, NOBODY wore a Rolex (Pontius Pilate may have had a Movado).
We, in the U.S. today, are magnificently wealthy in ways not imaginable in Biblical times. Did even the prophets foresee plumbing and electricity in almost every home?
The gap between the rich and the poor in most major U.S. cities (leaving aside the homeless) is small compared to what most of us have by contrast to what was available in 30 A.D.
Some bishops have fancy cars and I can turn a spigot and have a hot shower or sudsy bath every day. All of it would appear wildly luxurious to Simon Peter or Mary Magdalene. Those poor folks didn’t even have color TV and the internet yet!
Please Lord, just give us bishops who are prayerful, wise, virtuous, courageous, orthodox, and available as spiritual fathers to the people of their diocese. If the bishop is a holy and effective shepherd of souls and a wise administrator (not hiding behind his lawyers and staff), I’d be delighted to see him decked out in the highest fashion riding in a gold-plated Rolls-Royce! If he had all his priests preach every Sunday from the new Roman Catechism, and once a month from papal encyclicals on abortion and birth control, he should be given a platinum miter encrusted with emeralds and diamonds. He would then suffer the REAL POVERTY of public scorn in these immoral and impious times for daring to teach the true faith.
In our Lord’s time, NOBODY wore a Rolex (Pontius Pilate may have had a Movado).
We, in the U.S. today, are magnificently wealthy in ways not imaginable in Biblical times. Did even the prophets foresee plumbing and electricity in almost every home?
The gap between the rich and the poor in most major U.S. cities (leaving aside the homeless) is small compared to what most of us have by contrast to what was available in 30 A.D.
Some bishops have fancy cars and I can turn a spigot and have a hot shower or sudsy bath every day. All of it would appear wildly luxurious to Simon Peter or Mary Magdalene. Those poor folks didn’t even have color TV and the internet yet!
Please Lord, just give us bishops who are prayerful, wise, virtuous, courageous, orthodox, and available as spiritual fathers to the people of their diocese. If the bishop is a holy and effective shepherd of souls and a wise administrator (not hiding behind his lawyers and staff), I’d be delighted to see him decked out in the highest fashion riding in a gold-plated Rolls-Royce! If he had all his priests preach every Sunday from the new Roman Catechism, and once a month from papal encyclicals on abortion and birth control, he should be given a platinum miter encrusted with emeralds and diamonds. He would then suffer the REAL POVERTY of public scorn in these immoral and impious times for daring to teach the true faith.
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Obviously the statement made “would Jesus wear a Rolex watch,” went over your head.
Jim
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Jerry_Mitchner
Guest
Not at all! I just attempted to put your comment into a broader context. I have lived on the streets myself with only the goods I was able to carry. Even so, I do not comprehend the tendency many have to attack those who have earned or been blessed with more goods than others. I believe that a culture of envy has replaced a genuine appreciation for the spirit of poverty. Criticism of the Bishops for having nice cars only makes sense when the critic is a Poor Clare nun, or a monk in a Maronite rite penitential community (maybe some other religious communities are comparably ascetic, but the Maronite rite monks and Poor Clares are the two best examples I could think of).Obviously the statement made “would Jesus wear a Rolex watch,” went over your head.
Jim
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JimR-OCDS
Guest
Having a nice car really isn’t he issue. It’s having luxurious cars and homes that the average parishioner in their diocese, couldn’t dream of.
In all cases where I’ve seen clergy living in excessive luxury, their parish or diocese ends up in some sort of scandal.
The Boston Archdiocese is the prime example. When Cardinal Law was in Charge, he turned a retreat center on Cape Cod, which was donated for retreats and use by the diocese as a whole, into his own private summer residency.
The result of his life-style was that he lost touch with the people he was ordained to serve. Boston’s sexual abuse scandal rocked the Catholic Church, and it was because Cardinal Law was attempting to protect the image of the Catholic Church, over justice for the victims. The image of the Church for him, kept him in the luxury and position of importance, where he was wined and dined by the elete of Boston.
Thank God for Cardinal O’Malley! He’s begining to bring healing to the wounds in the Church and his embrace of the spirit of poverty, is key in this effort.
Jim
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Semper_Fi_1
Guest
How do we know that a vehicle for the Bishop isn’t donated by a Catholic who owns a car dealership?
Personally, I would rather the Bishop have a reliable vehicle with a good warranty than a personal jet.
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JimR-OCDS
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Caesar
Guest
Then for all of you who would denounce a Bishop who merely lives according to the rights his most holy office allows him, please go and evict the Holy Father from the Apostolic Palace, the Lateran Palace, Castel Gandalfo, and the numerous other Papal residences. Please tell the Vicar of Christ that to have Palaces and servants and guards and a massive personal library is a grave evil, and then direct him to a cardboard box.
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Mommyof02green
Guest
Well I’m glad to see that someone suggested that the cars might be leased. I do NOT know about our bishop. I don’t know if the bishop owns or lease.
However, I do know that several of our priest lease their cars.
I do, also, know one priest whose car was/is a gift from the dealer. The dealer and him were H.S. buddies and still personal friends…
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dorothy_smith
Guest
Bishops who choose to live the high life in luxury do so at the cost of scandalising the Church. That is where the argument finishes.
And as for your attempt to use the Holy Father as a mere porn in getting your message across - it didn’t work. Pope Alexander VI is the Church’s paradigm as a warning from history against any Papal debauchery.
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Mommyof02green
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dorothy_smith
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Oh how embarrassingI think you mean “pawn”… at least I hope you mean “pawn”.
It was a good laugh!!
I’ve gone red as a beetroot :blushing: LOL
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Al_Masetti
Guest
Some years ago, I met a bunch of nuns who lived in community and practiced extreme poverty. They travelled a lot doing charitable works.
Their car wore out. They had saved up $1500 for a new car. They wanted some modest economical compact. A friend put the word out among all the dealers.
They were acutely embarrassed, because the dealers came up with the absolute best car they could find. *
So … the sisters had to drive around in what could only be called a “pimpmobile”. It was huge. Chrome up the wazoo. Carried a lot of food packages and used clothing. Was very comfortable. And it only cost $1500.
Don’t know what kind of smileyface to put here.
God works in mysterious ways.*
Their car wore out. They had saved up $1500 for a new car. They wanted some modest economical compact. A friend put the word out among all the dealers.
They were acutely embarrassed, because the dealers came up with the absolute best car they could find. *
So … the sisters had to drive around in what could only be called a “pimpmobile”. It was huge. Chrome up the wazoo. Carried a lot of food packages and used clothing. Was very comfortable. And it only cost $1500.
Don’t know what kind of smileyface to put here.
God works in mysterious ways.*
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Caesar
Guest
Only if they put their wealth above their duties to the Church.
I assume you mean pawn…
Pope Alexander’s crime was that he placed his temporal power above his spiritual and ecclesiastical power and thus became corrupt. You will notice however that his successor, Pope Benedict XVI, still lives in the Apostolic Palace, and still holds the Lateran Palace, Castel Gandalfo, and various other residences that would hardly match up to your idea that Bishops should live in poverty.
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Aramis
Guest
Archbishop Schweitz of Anchorage has a vehicle worth over $100,000… his airplane.
Why? because he has to travel to all parishes in the Archdiocese’s episocopal see, and often throughout the province (which includes the dioceses of Juneau and Fairbanks. When the bishop travels, he takes with him an MC, and sometimes a transferring priest, or other relevant parties. It’s not a luxury, but a necessity. And far, far cheaper than chartering a plane for the same duties.
The Diocese provides a Cherokee Warrior for Rev. Fr. Scott Garett… his pastoral assignment includes a dozen villages, some on islands… Fr. Scott was both exited and nervous during his preparations for his current assignment. WIthout the plane, he’d be unable to serve more than two of those parishes.
BTW, Fr. Scott’s plane was donated. But the archdiocese maintains several airplanes.
Why? because he has to travel to all parishes in the Archdiocese’s episocopal see, and often throughout the province (which includes the dioceses of Juneau and Fairbanks. When the bishop travels, he takes with him an MC, and sometimes a transferring priest, or other relevant parties. It’s not a luxury, but a necessity. And far, far cheaper than chartering a plane for the same duties.
The Diocese provides a Cherokee Warrior for Rev. Fr. Scott Garett… his pastoral assignment includes a dozen villages, some on islands… Fr. Scott was both exited and nervous during his preparations for his current assignment. WIthout the plane, he’d be unable to serve more than two of those parishes.
BTW, Fr. Scott’s plane was donated. But the archdiocese maintains several airplanes.
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dorothy_smith
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No objections to that! The aeroplane is essential to his work. There is a big difference though to bishops who choose to drive swanky cars instead of excellently reliable basic models. (Unless, they want the luxury cars to be in line with their lavish life-styles? That isn’t what Christianity is about. But I guess some people will never understand that, i.e. they’ll never hear us.
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