Bishops with flash cars

[Mommyof02green]

No objections to that! The aeroplane is essential to his work. There is a big difference though to bishops who choose to drive swanky cars instead of excellently reliable basic models. (Unless, they want the luxury cars to be in line with their lavish life-styles? That isn’t what Christianity is about. But I guess some people will never understand that, i.e. they’ll never hear us.

Maybe I missed it, and if so just direct me to the post…

In your opinion what is a luxury car?
In your opinion what is a reliable basic model?

 

[Aramis]

I know that, at one point, the Archbishop of Anchorage was donated a big chevy town car, with all the trimmings.

The issue really is: can the bishop and/or the diocese afford the upkeep?

Or, as with Archbishop Schweitz, and before him, Abp. Hurley, can they afford not to maintain the “expensive toys” (urban parishoner’s complaint, ca 1986) in light of their apostolic mission.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Happy Easter!

Yes, one man’s luxury car is another man’s ‘medium’ line. (From the woman who drives a 91 Ford Escort with over 100,000 miles on it. To me, a tiny cheap car less than 10 years old would ‘feel’ like a luxury model!)

Also, I’m just one person. A 4 door or a station wagon or even a van might feel like a ‘luxury’ to me; but if I routinely had to do lots of driving on difficult roads (mountain, weather, etc.) it might not be a luxury but a necessity.

 

[dorothy_smith]

Maybe I missed it, and if so just direct me to the post…

In your opinion what is a luxury car?
In your opinion what is a reliable basic model?

The Bishop has two options of choosing a new car that will enable him to do his work:

1, New and reliable model of car that costs £8,000

2, New and reliable model of car that costs £50,000

By my understanding of the teachings of Jesus is that I should choose option 1.

 

[dorothy_smith]

There has been a lot of bandying of words and twisted accounts of the Word of the Gospel in this thread.

Let me reemphasise the truth. Jesus taught by words and by example. Jesus chose not to live the high life. Therefore neither should Bishops nor priests nor religious nor clergy (and this includes the Pope ‘the Vicar of Christ’)

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Dorothy, do you think Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II ‘live the high life?’

 

[Mommyof02green]

I don’t know I agree that there should be a limit on cost of a car etc…

However, in my next of the woods you can’t get “new” automatic for the prices that Dororthy posted…

You can get a nice “used” automatic for that prices but not a “new”…

I at least believe that they should at least have an automatic, air and power locks (to me that seems standard)

 

[The_Chicken]

if you think that there are people dying by lack of food and that the church is extremly rich, it starts not to make sense.
this thread is a great example of this.

 

[dorothy_smith]

Dorothy, do you think Pope Benedict XVI or Pope John Paul II ‘live the high life?’

.
Jesus, when accused, said ‘You are saying those words’ (or in your case, typing).

 

[az_4_faith]

Tsk, tsk, tsk . . .

Such gossip . . . .

 

[Aramis]

I am reminded of one priest … 6’8" tall, and drove a subcompact… from the back seat. He’d had the driver’s seat removed.

If the parishioners provide the vehicle, and it is no more expensive to maintain, then there is no real problem other than the potential for scandal. Having a list of donors painted on the sides is not a bad idea, if they give a luxury model.

Of course, I drove a “Luxury Car” for several years (up to last month, in fact) since I purchased it for $6500… with only 30000 miles on it… it was the only car available in my price range that would seat four and carry cargo as well, while still being financed with my irregular income. (It was totaled last month… an Olds Cutlass Sierra SL 96 wagon, with everything except the sunroof. At purchase, it was in like-new condition.)

A great number of people thought it worth far more than blue-book. Myself included.

So, just because it is a “Luxury” model, and in great shape, that doesn’t mean it’s inherently expensive.

 

[Orionthehunter]

I want my Bishop to drive the safest car on the road that meets his need. It is the practice of my Bishop to usually have a new Priest or seminarian travel with him to outlying parishes. I live in a disperse rural diocese in the north where he has to travel across the diocese doing confirmations in the winter. Because of the preciousness of the cargo in that car, I wish he drove a Suburban or in the alternative, a large luxury all-wheel drive car. I want it to be large and spacious so he can carry many people.

There is mention of Priests driving fancy cars. I recall my original reaction when I saw a Priest drive up in a new big Lexus. At the time, that car cost $40,000 and the comparable model would be $80,000 today.

Shamefully, I admit that I prejudged this Priest for his “excess.” After days of stewing in judgment, I confronted one of his parishioners about it as he was from another parish in town. I was told that this vehicle was a gift from his siblings. Ever since he had entered the seminary, his siblings had pledged to always provide a vehicle to him in gratitude for his decision to serve as a Priest.

In the beginning, the car they provided was more modest but as their gratitude grew, their choice of cars grew. While we might be tempted to question whether the siblings shouldn’t provide a more modest car and then give the difference to a charity, this parishioner reminded me that it was Judas who questioned the use of the expensive oils to bathe Christ’s feet.

To further reinforce my view we shouldn’t be judgmental, I recall a situation where at the same time a parishioner was prepared to trade off his big Caddy for another, his Pastor wrecked his car. Because the Pastor was under-water in his car loan, this was going to be quite a hardship for the Pastor to replace his car. This parishioner decided to give the Caddy to the Priest and purchase a Honda Accord for himself.

Finally, I know of a car dealer who knew that the local Pastor was given a monthly allowance for a car plus a gas/maintenance allowance. Whenever the parish got a new Pastor, the car dealer told the Priest he needed a new car. He didn’t take a down payment and then selected for the Pastor a car significantly larger and more expensive than what the allowance could service and delivered it the Priest with the dealer eating the difference.

In all cases, what appears to be outward ostentatiousness are acts of charity.

 

[Semper_Fi_1]

I want my Bishop to drive the safest car on the road that meets his need. It is the practice of my Bishop to usually have a new Priest or seminarian travel with him to outlying parishes. I live in a disperse rural diocese in the north where he has to travel across the diocese doing confirmations in the winter. Because of the preciousness of the cargo in that car, I wish he drove a Suburban or in the alternative, a large luxury all-wheel drive car. I want it to be large and spacious so he can carry many people.

There is mention of Priests driving fancy cars. I recall my original reaction when I saw a Priest drive up in a new big Lexus. At the time, that car cost $40,000 and the comparable model would be $80,000 today.

Shamefully, I admit that I prejudged this Priest for his “excess.” After days of stewing in judgment, I confronted one of his parishioners about it as he was from another parish in town. I was told that this vehicle was a gift from his siblings. Ever since he had entered the seminary, his siblings had pledged to always provide a vehicle to him in gratitude for his decision to serve as a Priest.

In the beginning, the car they provided was more modest but as their gratitude grew, their choice of cars grew. While we might be tempted to question whether the siblings shouldn’t provide a more modest car and then give the difference to a charity, this parishioner reminded me that it was Judas who questioned the use of the expensive oils to bathe Christ’s feet.

To further reinforce my view we shouldn’t be judgmental, I recall a situation where at the same time a parishioner was prepared to trade off his big Caddy for another, his Pastor wrecked his car. Because the Pastor was under-water in his car loan, this was going to be quite a hardship for the Pastor to replace his car. This parishioner decided to give the Caddy to the Priest and purchase a Honda Accord for himself.

Finally, I know of a car dealer who knew that the local Pastor was given a monthly allowance for a car plus a gas/maintenance allowance. Whenever the parish got a new Pastor, the car dealer told the Priest he needed a new car. He didn’t take a down payment and then selected for the Pastor a car significantly larger and more expensive than what the allowance could service and delivered it the Priest with the dealer eating the difference.

In all cases, what appears to be outward ostentatiousness are acts of charity.

In a lot of instances, since a parish is usually organized as a non-profit 501(c)3 corporation, a dealer giving a vehicle or a lease to a parish for the priest’s personal use could obtain a tax write off.

Priests give up everything when they join the ministry. Not all priests take a vow of poverty and most secular priests (parish priests) do not. In some dioceses, a priest is lucky if he brings in $10,000 a year. I say so what if a priest drives a good vehicle. I would rather have a priest driving a vehicle with a good warranty that would protect him personally and the Precious Body & Blood he carries with him.

 

[Jerry_Mitchner]

:coffeeread:

There has been a lot of bandying of words and twisted accounts of the Word of the Gospel in this thread.

Let me reemphasise the truth. Jesus taught by words and by example. Jesus chose not to live the high life. Therefore neither should Bishops nor priests nor religious nor clergy (and this includes the Pope ‘the Vicar of Christ’)

But relative to the third world and most people in history, even some U.S. poor might be charged with living “the high life”. Think about this just a moment to see that this is not an exaggeration. Your point is well taken, but putting a clear standard into words is difficult.
Also, our Lord was building a new society which would participate in the covenant he sealed in his blood. Once that society the church took hold, it would come to need stable residences for bishops that administered diocese. Evangelists in non-Christian societies don’t have this sort of flock needing a fixed shepherd.
Once a bishop is installed, he needs not only to administer his diocese, but to show hospitality to leaders of other communities, whether secular or religious, in the manner those leaders are most accustomed to. It would be nice if it were easy to develop relationships with local mayors, etc. by having them over to enjoy humble food & drink in a drafty tenement apartment; but how many would attend? And when bishops build these relationships it becomes easier for our rights as Catholics to be understood, taken seriously, and preserved without resort to the courts.
But I must acknowledge that there could be real temptations for any bishop who must build these bridges between the church and the world.

 

[Al_Masetti]

In a lot of instances, since a parish is usually organized as a non-profit 501(c)3 corporation, a dealer giving a vehicle or a lease to a parish for the priest’s personal use could obtain a tax write off.

Priests give up everything when they join the ministry. Not all priests take a vow of poverty and most secular priests (parish priests) do not. In some dioceses, a priest is lucky if he brings in $10,000 a year. I say so what if a priest drives a good vehicle. I would rather have a priest driving a vehicle with a good warranty that would protect him personally and the Precious Body & Blood he carries with him.

One of my priest friends said once that they get $1000 per month plus an additional $1000 per year for Social Security and they are paid on a 1099 as independent contractors. The parish provides a room and board. A pastor would get about 10% more. [This was in New York City (Manhattan), one of the most expensive places in the world to live.] His parish didn’t have many weddings, so there weren’t many extras in terms of gifts.

If they don’t have family money to fall back on, then they might as well be taking vows of poverty.

One of my priest-friends didn’t have much and spent his day off at a Borders book store that he could walk to; they had nice chairs in a quiet alcove and he spent his day off reading. He said that Wendy’s had a nice meal that he could afford.

 

[dorothy_smith]

There are some who listen to the Word of God but never hear it.

It is astounding (or rather surprising) that there are some Catholics who still do not grasp the basic tenets of Christianity.

 

[Caesar]

No objections to that! The aeroplane is essential to his work. There is a big difference though to bishops who choose to drive swanky cars instead of excellently reliable basic models. (Unless, they want the luxury cars to be in line with their lavish life-styles? That isn’t what Christianity is about. But I guess some people will never understand that, i.e. they’ll never hear us.

So anyone who has any sort of luxury in life- whether it be a nice house, or an expensive car, or beautiful artwork- is automaticaly unholy?

 

[Orionthehunter]

There are some who listen to the Word of God but never hear it.

It is astounding (or rather surprising) that there are some Catholics who still do not grasp the basic tenets of Christianity.

I am a work in progress. I pray that I will someday reach your level of understanding.

 

[dorothy_smith]

So anyone who has any sort of luxury in life- whether it be a nice house, or an expensive car, or beautiful artwork- is automaticaly unholy?

What do you think Jesus meant when He said, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God” (Matthew 19:24. Similar verses are in Mark 10:25 and Luke 18:25).

 

[dorothy_smith]

I am a work in progress. I pray that I will someday reach your level of understanding.

That’s nice. Thank you.