Black Pro-Lifer Tells Antifa: If Black Lives Mattered, You’d Protest Planned Parenthood

[Victoria33]

“What-about-ism” is a cop out and in fact, it’s hypocrisy if the argument now is that some lives don’t matter. And by the way, there is no definition.

And the whole thing, is just convoluted logic and it is politics. If 7000 blacks a year die from black on black violence, then why is this not being discussed with the same urgency? It’s ridiculous.

 

[josie_L]

Whether on suspicion or charges, my point is that the CRIMINAL ELEMENT within the Black community is with whom the Police come into contact so therefore it makes logical sense that the rate of Blacks being killed by cops will be disproportionately higher, i.e., comparing the criminal ELEMENT and lumping them with the innocent makes little sense unless your goal is to heighten the belief that blacks are disproportionately being targeted over whites.

Blacks represent 13% of the country’s population but commit 50% of the violent crimes, but for some reason I’m to compare and calculate on a per capita basis rather than the portion of criminals blacks represent.

The fact that your article claims 76 UNARMED blacks were KILLED (which beggars belief) is absolutely utterly false! It does not have statistical support, i.e., 94% of the black assailants that were killed by cops were armed.

Black males are killing cops 18.5 times more than cops kill black males.

And Heather MacDonald is not an intellectual slouch, so for this author to discount her perspective despite her profession and the years she spent studying the police force in New York is foolhardy.

 

[Victoria33]

If there was a peaceful protest against injustice, I would have no problem marching for that, if it means “black lives matter” or for a Hmong man, Fong Lee, killed in somewhat similar incidences but it is probably wrong to just say “well, it doesn’t stand for that”… who are you to define this? So, now, I’d you and this is not constructive to the conversation that one is just playing a semantic game.

The debated position of the Hmong in the George Floyd protests

In the Hmong community, the consensus on George Floyd's death is that it was wrong. Where the split begins is over involvement in protests.

www.kare11.com

Or the killing of Justine Damone, the white Australian woman, by a Somali officer.

Now, we’d just be going around and around on the issue. The BLM/Antifa riots and protests have seen a number of people die, so the division is a bit tedious but if you say “All Lives Matter”, that seems to cover it all.

Again, one could respond and just say, well, you are just playing a game with semantics.

 

[josie_L]

As per the Wall Street Journal written by Heather Mac Donald (June 2nd 2020):

This charge of systemic police bias was wrong during the Obama years and remains so today. However sickening the video of Floyd’s arrest, it isn’t representative of the 375 million annual contacts that police officers have with civilians. A solid body of evidence finds no structural bias in the criminal-justice system with regard to arrests, prosecution or sentencing.

Crime and suspect behavior, not race, determine most police actions.

 

[JonNC]

What-about-ism” is a cop out

Well, it’s more than that. It is an attempt at defending an argument or ending debate by shutting down comparisons.
I’ve seen it used on both sides, and similar to ad hominem attacks and dismissing an argument by dismissing its source (it can’t be true because it came from Breitbart or WAPO), its rather cheap and lazy.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

If you protest against PP, why not join BLM, also? “All lives matter” works both ways, you know.

Lots of reasons why those of us who oppose PP won’t join BLM.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.

We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.

We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.

We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.

We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).

Now feel free to show me what is offensive to the BLM movement with regards to pro-lifers who oppose planned parenthood.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Is disdain for the organized group BLM what keeps some from uttering “black liives matters“?

Best I can tell some people interpret the phrase with an implied “only” at the beginning. Others interpret it with an implied “too” at the end.

But there are some more nuanced positions. Some interpret it as a label for a violent disposition. Some interpret it as promoting “the homosexual agenda (c).” Some view it as anti-Trump. Some view it as anti-Police.

Good luck getting everyone on the same page about it.

 

[blackforest]

No, it is an attempt have a double standard by complaining about comparisons.

“What-about-ism” is a cop out and in fact, it’s hypocrisy if the argument now is that some lives don’t matter.

It’s a fallacy. https://www.theodysseyonline.com/whataboutism-the-fallacy-of-deflection-arguments

Pro-choicers use it all the time on pro-lifers. “What about foster kids/born children/etc.?”

good policing

How do you define “good policing?”

Not when good policing takes place.

“Good policing,” (whatever that is), isn’t a proven deterrent. Taking away the incentive for crime is. Remember, too, that crime rates are based on convictions, which don’t always come from an objective process.

All of it within the control of progressive Democrats who have controlled large city government for 5 or mor decades.

I’m a huge critic of the Democratic party. But I really think you’re oversimplifying matters.

Blacks represent 13% of the country’s population but commit 50% of the violent crimes, but for some reason

They are convicted of these crimes. That doesn’t mean they commit them more often than white people. We already know in the case of marijuana that they don’t.

 

[blackforest]

The fact that your article claims 76 UNARMED blacks were KILLED (which beggars belief) is absolutely utterly false! It does not have statistical support, i.e., 94% of the black assailants that were killed by cops were armed.

The citations are right there with embedded links.

If we consult the Guardian ’s compilation of deaths, we discover that actually, if we include causes of death beyond shooting (like being choked, beaten, tased, or bitten by a police dog), 76 unarmed black men died at the hands of police in 2015, not 36.

Black males are killing cops 18.5 times more than cops kill black males.

No. They’re really not.

From 2006-2015, 289 of 543 “cop-killers” were white, which is 53%. 53% of 41 deaths is 22 cops killed by white people. Out of 628,000 cops that’s .000035. Now: There were 45 unarmed white men killed by cops in 2015. Out of 100,000,000 million white men, that’s .00000045, which gives us: 77! A cop was 77 times more likely to be killed by a white man than an unarmed white man is to be killed by a cop.

And Heather MacDonald is not an intellectual slouch

If she’s too smart to misunderstand math, then she’s twisting data to mislead others.

Now feel free to show me what is offensive to the BLM movement with regards to pro-lifers who oppose planned parenthood.

You’re equivocating between the organization and the movement. I’m referring to a movement, and you’re quoting the organization. None of those marchers have to swear any oath of allegiance to the latter.

 

[YADA]

While we as Catholics believe that all lives matter - BLM does not care about the black lives that are murdered by abortion - in the tens of thousands each year, nor do they care out the thousands of lives murdered by non police actions [shootings, drugs, etc.] each year. It is only the few each year that involve police. BLM does not even care and has not even acknowledged or mentioned the 20 plus lives lost to the rioting and looting since George Floyd’s murder - Many of which were Black lives.

Thus the reason this person could rightly say that “Planned Parenthood is the number one killer of the black population,” AND “I don’t see you there.”

The disconnect is not here among Catholics nor among those who ask “Dont all lives matter?” its that their message lacks real honesty to the people it is trying to represent - because many African Americans wonder why literally ALL Black lives dont seem to matter to the BLM movement.

Then there are some [of all races] who look at what issues BLM stated they are promoting and are appalled - again …

 

[JonNC]

Good policing,” (whatever that is), isn’t a proven deterrent. Taking away the incentive for crime is. Remember, too, that crime rates are based on convictions, which don’t always come from an objective process.

Of course it is. In fact, recent polls show 70% of American blacks Oppose defunding police. Why? Because criminal elements are far far more dangers than the occasional cop who abuse the rights of people.
My parents grew up in the Great Depression when poverty was severe. Crime was not as bad then.
Thomas Sowell related that people in cities would sleep on their porches in the summer.

In the 1960’s, Dad would take us to Connie Mack Stadium to see the Phillies. We could walk from the subway to the ball park, back again after the game. No worries about crime.
The relationship of crime to poverty is a relatively new phenomenon.
So is single parent homes.
Black youth unemployment was lower prior to 1960, at times lower than white teen unemployment.
Why did all of these things happen after the Great Society programs?

I’m a huge critic of the Democratic party. But I really think you’re oversimplifying matters.

Really? If these events happened under Republican, you don’t think the outrage would be exponentially greater? I think it isn’t simplistic at all.

 

[JonNC]

They aren’t?

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By the way, Mr. King also said this.

Apparently religious icons are not exempt.

 

[Victoria33]

Mr. King is a BLM activist, time to assign BLM the designation of being anti-Catholic and anti-Semitic.

Some cities set up equipment to survey noise, I guess gunshots:

'It's Just Stupid': Police Data Shows 1,600 Minneapolis Gunfire Reports Within 30 Days

A data map shows the amount of gunfire reports in Minneapolis over the past 30 days is more than 1,600 and climbing.

minnesota.cbslocal.com

And you know who suffers the most in all of this.

These organizations are fomenting violence?

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

If you protest against PP, why not join BLM, also? “All lives matter” works both ways, you know.

You’re equivocating between the organization and the movement. I’m referring to a movement, and you’re quoting the organization. None of those marchers have to swear any oath of allegiance to the latter.

You asked why we wouldn’t join BLM, so I answered. Unfortunately, a bad organization has coopted a worthy sentiment, so don’t blame others for not using the sentiment when it is synonymous with a group who has many bad intentions. People do not parse the two; they are associated as one.

It’d be like starting a group called “Save the Whales” that happened to promote open and free access to child pornography. I’d hope people wouldn’t get frustrated if people didn’t want associate themselves with the name “Save the Whales.”

 

[blackforest]

By the way, Mr. King also said this.

My intent is to prove wrong your claim that no one on the Left is standing up to the Democrats. I’m not here to defend every last remark he made. This is as irrelevant as any love he has of puppies and ice cream.

Really? If these events happened under Republican, you don’t think the outrage would be exponentially greater? I think it isn’t simplistic at all.

Reforming the police and combating racism shouldn’t be partisan or controversial. Sadly, there are those choosing to controvert it.

You never answered my question. What defines “good policing?”

You asked why we wouldn’t join BLM, so I answered.

It’s too late to edit my post, but yes, I’m referring to the movement not the organization. Conflating the two is disingenuous.

 

[josie_L]

They are convicted of these crimes. That doesn’t mean they commit them more often than white people. We already know in the case of marijuana that they don’t.

I specifically stated violent crimes, i.e., where there is always a victim who usually can identify the assailant and therefore a criminal investigation which pursues the assailant in question. The idea that whites are somehow not being pursued and convicted of violent crimes they’ve committed is ridiculous in this day and age and wholly without proof.

Moreover, just over this Father’s data week-end 104 blacks were injured with 14 dead, do you want take a guess at who the assailants are??

The youngest of these victims was 3 years old, 3 YEARS OLD, where is your outrage at his death and at the countless deaths happening as a result of violent crimes associated with gangs not police.

 

[josie_L]

Even the movement itself is not enough to save black lives if the issue of abortion and gang warfare is not part of the discussion.

I mean if black lives matter then ALL black lives should matter and we should be speaking up for those blacks as well.

Otherwise it is just another attempt to MANIPULATE THE FALSE NARRATIVE of systemic racial policing.

 

[blackforest]

Well we have this wee problem, just for starters. http://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Documents/Race_and_Wrongful_Convictions.pdf

Moreover, just over this Father’s data week-end 104 blacks were injured with 14 dead, do you want take a guess at who the assailants are??

And . . . ? It’s horrible. But how is it relevant to the need for ending police brutality against African-Americans?

Or were you trying to steer the discussion toward this hackneyed direction?

I mean if black lives matter then ALL black lives should matter and we should be speaking up for those blacks as well.

Yea, yea. I get it. And the American Cancer Society isn’t doing enough because they’re doing nothing about diabetes and all diseases matters. And pro-lifers need to prove they’re really pro-life by adopting 28 foster kids because all children matter. I get it. It’s just a tone-deaf response.

 

[Autumnfa]

When it’s babies all lives matter. Yes I see the numbers and agree. He is right though life only matters when it’s wanted or worth something. There’s a number on your birth certificate you can take and see how much you’re worth. Babies matter because they are who makes our future generations to fight. It’s a harsh sad reality and truth. We need to fight hard for the right of these babies. A 10 week infant in the womb has developed foot prints and baby with down syndrome can be murdered Till it’s coming out of the mom. This infancide needs to stop. It’s time to start fighting with Christ and life. This time is now.

 

[Autumnfa]

People who are pro life are but people who are pro choice haven’t done anything to help. Have you? If you worked as hard to argue with this person towards fixing the foster system and fighting for better living situations for these children then I bet there would be more done. People who decide not to get an abortion actually keeps the baby fyi.