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jspace22
Guest
Anger? lol
You can have the last word, hope it makes you feel better…
You can have the last word, hope it makes you feel better…
- Status
B
BigJ73
Guest
:yawn: 
S
SimonPeter78
Guest
Interesting thread, jspace22 you seem kinda quick to give up since you don’t have much of an argument here. Seriously if you can’t debate without getting all mad you probably should NOT debate. Looks like BigJ’s been pretty forthcoming in his responses but curious as to the attacks. Why attack him? Somethin’ musta happened to you so you’re taking it out on him.
Well, I’m not being paid to be a referee…
Have a bottle or a pacifier and go to bed space…
God bless you all.
Well, I’m not being paid to be a referee…
Have a bottle or a pacifier and go to bed space…
God bless you all.
J
jspace22
Guest
Mad? No…
Attacks? No… Just calling it how I see it…
Why argue with someone who miscontrues your statements?
Besides, what am I giving up on?
An argument… Nobody’s willing to change their minds, so I will let it be as it is… What’s wrong with that? I’m fine with being the bigger person.
And you know what, I’m not offended by anyone…
I just speak my piece…
Furthermore, what a coincidence that simonpeter has signed up today for a brand new account just to join this thread.
It’s almost identical to the way bigj sounds in his posts… what a coincidence. Maybe you two have been brainwashed together.
Attacks? No… Just calling it how I see it…
Why argue with someone who miscontrues your statements?
Besides, what am I giving up on?
An argument… Nobody’s willing to change their minds, so I will let it be as it is… What’s wrong with that? I’m fine with being the bigger person.
And you know what, I’m not offended by anyone…
I just speak my piece…
Furthermore, what a coincidence that simonpeter has signed up today for a brand new account just to join this thread.
It’s almost identical to the way bigj sounds in his posts… what a coincidence. Maybe you two have been brainwashed together.
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frowacp
Guest
Is BNP a cult, a church, a religious or secular organization? Very confusing… different records show different faces of BNP…this might be the inherent reason why there is confusion on what BNP is.
A list of cults recorded at “Cult Awareness Network, Inc.” includes BNP or Banal Na Pag-aaral as one of them…
BNP’s status in the USA INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE (IRS) record as in October 6, 1986. IRS classified BNP under a more general classification, section 170(b)(1)(A)(i) of the Internal Revenue Code. This classification can apply to religious organizations as well as secular organizations for tax-exempt status. BNP, then, was recognized as BANAL NA PAG-AARAL, INC. as a tax-exempt non-profit organization.
However, a check on the status of the BNP on November 27, 2007, by the Administrative Appeal Office of the US Citizenship and Immigration Services in California, with the IRS revealed that BNP lost its tax-exempt status in December 1997.
If this is so, is BNP paying taxes?
Futhermore, according to a document ( from U.S. Depatment of Homeland Security, a public document), Banal na Pag-aaral as the intending employer of one who applied for special immigrant religious worker status pursuant to section 203 (b) (4) ( case is still on going), of the Immigration National Act, presented itself as a CHURCH. The petitioner here is BNP Church. The person/applicant is “to perform services at BNP Church in Ontario, California, where he holds several titles.” What kind of Church is BNP if it is after all a Church?
For sure, it is not a Catholic Church. The same document recorded that " The Banal na Pag-aaral Church… was founded in 1968 in the Philippines and was brought to the United States in 1983…Its worldwide membership total (s) 55,000 to date. There are 187 chapters, defined by locations, all over the world… The BNP Church is governed and administered by BNP Council. It is the policy-making body of the entire organization. It also serves as a consultative body to the office of the President/Pastor, who is the head of the BNP Church." This does not sound as if BNP is a Catholic Church nor associated with the Catholic Church.
Can we say here that BNP is a separate Church? It seems… what do you think?
By the way, According to the St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Community Bulletin dated November 16, 2008, when BNP “built their church on Riverside Dr. in Ontario, CA, they filed with the Superior Court of California, County of Los Angeles in Long Beach, and claimed to be a separate church with ESTANISLAO HOKSON STUART as their pastor.”
Who made him a pastor? For sure it’s not the Catholic Church.
As we know that Estanislao Hokson Stuart is the current husband of Remedios Bautista Rios. Do you know who Remedios Bautista Rios is? According to the document I have dated May 16, 1996, she is the same as Mrs. Salvacion Aguillon Carreon or Ate Salve in short. Why did she change her named when she married Estanislao Hokson Stuart? That I will have to research… If you know, post it here.
lefawe
A list of cults recorded at “Cult Awareness Network, Inc.” includes BNP or Banal Na Pag-aaral as one of them…
BNP’s status in the USA INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE (IRS) record as in October 6, 1986. IRS classified BNP under a more general classification, section 170(b)(1)(A)(i) of the Internal Revenue Code. This classification can apply to religious organizations as well as secular organizations for tax-exempt status. BNP, then, was recognized as BANAL NA PAG-AARAL, INC. as a tax-exempt non-profit organization.
However, a check on the status of the BNP on November 27, 2007, by the Administrative Appeal Office of the US Citizenship and Immigration Services in California, with the IRS revealed that BNP lost its tax-exempt status in December 1997.
If this is so, is BNP paying taxes?
Futhermore, according to a document ( from U.S. Depatment of Homeland Security, a public document), Banal na Pag-aaral as the intending employer of one who applied for special immigrant religious worker status pursuant to section 203 (b) (4) ( case is still on going), of the Immigration National Act, presented itself as a CHURCH. The petitioner here is BNP Church. The person/applicant is “to perform services at BNP Church in Ontario, California, where he holds several titles.” What kind of Church is BNP if it is after all a Church?
For sure, it is not a Catholic Church. The same document recorded that " The Banal na Pag-aaral Church… was founded in 1968 in the Philippines and was brought to the United States in 1983…Its worldwide membership total (s) 55,000 to date. There are 187 chapters, defined by locations, all over the world… The BNP Church is governed and administered by BNP Council. It is the policy-making body of the entire organization. It also serves as a consultative body to the office of the President/Pastor, who is the head of the BNP Church." This does not sound as if BNP is a Catholic Church nor associated with the Catholic Church.
Can we say here that BNP is a separate Church? It seems… what do you think?
By the way, According to the St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Community Bulletin dated November 16, 2008, when BNP “built their church on Riverside Dr. in Ontario, CA, they filed with the Superior Court of California, County of Los Angeles in Long Beach, and claimed to be a separate church with ESTANISLAO HOKSON STUART as their pastor.”
Who made him a pastor? For sure it’s not the Catholic Church.
As we know that Estanislao Hokson Stuart is the current husband of Remedios Bautista Rios. Do you know who Remedios Bautista Rios is? According to the document I have dated May 16, 1996, she is the same as Mrs. Salvacion Aguillon Carreon or Ate Salve in short. Why did she change her named when she married Estanislao Hokson Stuart? That I will have to research… If you know, post it here.
lefawe
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frowacp
Guest
The document from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security revealed that BNP has no clear identity of itself: Is it “a self-contained religious denomination it its own right, or that the BNP church is affiliated with a religious denomination?
It states further that, it appears to be associated with Roman Catholicism because “A BNP publication in the record contains terms that appear to be associated with Roman Catholicism, such as “the Feast of the Lady Guadalupe” and “the Lady of Lourdes”.
Yet, when asked to submit a religious credentials, a member who applied for a status as a special immigrant worker to “perform services at the BNP Church in Ontario, California,” submitted religious credentials issued by the Universal Life Church, which, according to the web site themonastery.org (visited July 30, 2007), “welcomes all who ask to Become an Ordained Minister and grants it without question.” Different religious denominations have different standards as to who qualifies for ordination, and it does not appear that denominations that normally require rigorous seminary study would readily recognize the “pop-up instant ordination credential” available from the Universal Life Church Monastery.” ( According to the same Document mentioned above).
I wonder if the chief pastor of BNP who is identified as Estanislao Hokson Stuart, the husband of Remedios Bautista Rios or Mrs. Salvacion Aguillon Carreon (Known as Ate Salve) got his religious credentials from this Universal Life Church. If the “ministers” of BNP got their religious credentials from this Church, then this is one of the clear evidences that BNP is not Catholic even if they have catholic terms and practices. Any catholic who is associated with BNP must go beyond the external like praying the rosary, retreats, vigil etc. and dig “what BNP does not tell them.” Praying the rosary, attending retreats and vigil do not automatically make one a catholic. Catholicism goes much much deeper than that. There are mainstream Christians like some Lutherans who recite the rosary, but they are not Catholic. Conversion does not also prove that one is a catholic. There are non-catholic groups in which conversion occurs. In fact some of their members are “holier” and more committed to the Lord than many Catholics are. But this does not prove they are catholic.
Thus, if BNP has done good things to anyone in bringing them to God, fine. But do not pretend to appear what you are not and confuse the catholic believers, even divide the bishops and priests who don’t know much about BNP except that which are external.
Be honest to call a spade a spade. If BNP is indeed “founded” by God (as claimed by a member) then God will bless BNP more.
lefawe:
It states further that, it appears to be associated with Roman Catholicism because “A BNP publication in the record contains terms that appear to be associated with Roman Catholicism, such as “the Feast of the Lady Guadalupe” and “the Lady of Lourdes”.
Yet, when asked to submit a religious credentials, a member who applied for a status as a special immigrant worker to “perform services at the BNP Church in Ontario, California,” submitted religious credentials issued by the Universal Life Church, which, according to the web site themonastery.org (visited July 30, 2007), “welcomes all who ask to Become an Ordained Minister and grants it without question.” Different religious denominations have different standards as to who qualifies for ordination, and it does not appear that denominations that normally require rigorous seminary study would readily recognize the “pop-up instant ordination credential” available from the Universal Life Church Monastery.” ( According to the same Document mentioned above).
I wonder if the chief pastor of BNP who is identified as Estanislao Hokson Stuart, the husband of Remedios Bautista Rios or Mrs. Salvacion Aguillon Carreon (Known as Ate Salve) got his religious credentials from this Universal Life Church. If the “ministers” of BNP got their religious credentials from this Church, then this is one of the clear evidences that BNP is not Catholic even if they have catholic terms and practices. Any catholic who is associated with BNP must go beyond the external like praying the rosary, retreats, vigil etc. and dig “what BNP does not tell them.” Praying the rosary, attending retreats and vigil do not automatically make one a catholic. Catholicism goes much much deeper than that. There are mainstream Christians like some Lutherans who recite the rosary, but they are not Catholic. Conversion does not also prove that one is a catholic. There are non-catholic groups in which conversion occurs. In fact some of their members are “holier” and more committed to the Lord than many Catholics are. But this does not prove they are catholic.
Thus, if BNP has done good things to anyone in bringing them to God, fine. But do not pretend to appear what you are not and confuse the catholic believers, even divide the bishops and priests who don’t know much about BNP except that which are external.
Be honest to call a spade a spade. If BNP is indeed “founded” by God (as claimed by a member) then God will bless BNP more.
lefawe:
V
vlademer7
Guest
well I’m a part of BNP and all I know is The BNP and Church is only one… They’re Dream is Only one… is to Bring Back all the people that never know the love of God…“Kung para sa Diyos ang ginagawa ng iba ay hindi kalaban ng Diyos”
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vlademer7
Guest
Banal Na Pag aaral (BNP) , is a very nice teaching of catholic responsibility and duty, they bring back all the people who lost their way and to know,to love and to serve God as their purpose in life…
Ate Salve is only A ordinary woman , She like an only ordinary person but she is special for us.
and Mahal na Ingkong or MNI… like what they say our God is so very old so we called Him MNI.
I am your brother in faith Vlademer Velasquez that I am very Fortunate to Graduate in BNP youth Ministry Class shrine no. 48 in Amadeo Cavite , PH. UNDER THE GRACE OF GOD!!!
you dont need to choose either BNP or Church… Becaues BNP and Church is only one,they’re dream and want to have the grace of God at all time.
The BNP need the church because they need the all sacrament that only found in the Catholic faith … and we are BNP is A Organization to bring back all the people who lost their way in truth and duty in God also.
I don’t want to hear such a word who condemmed BNP, Because we are just Doing a right thing.
Luke 9:46-50
"Who Will Be the Greatest
46.An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47.Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48.Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For he who is least among you all—he is the greatest.”
49.“Master,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”
50.“Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
Ate Salve is only A ordinary woman , She like an only ordinary person but she is special for us.
and Mahal na Ingkong or MNI… like what they say our God is so very old so we called Him MNI.
I am your brother in faith Vlademer Velasquez that I am very Fortunate to Graduate in BNP youth Ministry Class shrine no. 48 in Amadeo Cavite , PH. UNDER THE GRACE OF GOD!!!
you dont need to choose either BNP or Church… Becaues BNP and Church is only one,they’re dream and want to have the grace of God at all time.
The BNP need the church because they need the all sacrament that only found in the Catholic faith … and we are BNP is A Organization to bring back all the people who lost their way in truth and duty in God also.
I don’t want to hear such a word who condemmed BNP, Because we are just Doing a right thing.
Luke 9:46-50
"Who Will Be the Greatest
46.An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest. 47.Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him. 48.Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For he who is least among you all—he is the greatest.”
49.“Master,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us.”
50.“Do not stop him,” Jesus said, “for whoever is not against you is for you.”
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benidict
Guest
with all due respect Ate Salve sounds like she is channeling spirits. we are not to be linked to this type of activity, as is evidenced by the young woman in acts who was following paul around claiming " this man has the true gospel! listen to him!" as i seem to remember, paul silenced her, and cast out the evil spirit. it caused quite an uproar. so it does not matter is Ate salve is doing some good or not. she sounds like she is being deceived and deceiving people. she sounds no different than any other person who opens them up to to used by the spirit world. Peace and prayers that you may see the light.
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frowacp
Guest
Vlademer Wake up. The Catholic Church is not BNP, and will never be BNP. The Catholic Church does not teach us believers to call God, INGKONG. The Catholic Church does not recognize BNP as one of her organizations nor she recognizes Salve as God’s instrument of Salvation.
If what you are doing is to bring the “lost” back to God, then that’s fine. But that does not qualify BNP to be one with the Catholic Church. There are many groups, sects, denominations, even muslims, who claim to do the same but they are not Catholic.
lefawe
If what you are doing is to bring the “lost” back to God, then that’s fine. But that does not qualify BNP to be one with the Catholic Church. There are many groups, sects, denominations, even muslims, who claim to do the same but they are not Catholic.
lefawe
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vlademer7
Guest
well I am the one of many people who witness the phenomena of MAHAL NA INGKONG and the manifestation that the most special thing that I cherished until I die and that thing is the one that make my faith strong to GOD , we the BNP is also make a step on how we spread the good news of our lord JESUS CHRIST that we call him MAHAL NA INGKONG which is not a satanic or demonic God… I understand what you feel right now in BNP… GOD BLESS YOU…
V
vlademer7
Guest
BNP is not a CULT… we have only one God that we faithfully SERVE,LOVE and we have to know and that is JESUS CHRIST our savior…Is BNP a cult, a church, a religious or secular organization? Very confusing… different records show different faces of BNP…this might be the inherent reason why there is confusion on what BNP is.
A list of cults recorded at “Cult Awareness Network, Inc.” includes BNP or Banal Na Pag-aaral as one of them…
BNP’s status in the USA INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE (IRS) record as in October 6, 1986. IRS classified BNP under a more general classification, section 170(b)(1)(A)(i) of the Internal Revenue Code. This classification can apply to religious organizations as well as secular organizations for tax-exempt status. BNP, then, was recognized as BANAL NA PAG-AARAL, INC. as a tax-exempt non-profit organization.
However, a check on the status of the BNP on November 27, 2007, by the Administrative Appeal Office of the US Citizenship and Immigration Services in California, with the IRS revealed that BNP lost its tax-exempt status in December 1997.
If this is so, is BNP paying taxes?
Futhermore, according to a document ( from U.S. Depatment of Homeland Security, a public document), Banal na Pag-aaral as the intending employer of one who applied for special immigrant religious worker status pursuant to section 203 (b) (4) ( case is still on going), of the Immigration National Act, presented itself as a CHURCH. The petitioner here is BNP Church. The person/applicant is “to perform services at BNP Church in Ontario, California, where he holds several titles.” What kind of Church is BNP if it is after all a Church?
For sure, it is not a Catholic Church. The same document recorded that " The Banal na Pag-aaral Church… was founded in 1968 in the Philippines and was brought to the United States in 1983…Its worldwide membership total (s) 55,000 to date. There are 187 chapters, defined by locations, all over the world… The BNP Church is governed and administered by BNP Council. It is the policy-making body of the entire organization. It also serves as a consultative body to the office of the President/Pastor, who is the head of the BNP Church." This does not sound as if BNP is a Catholic Church nor associated with the Catholic Church.
Can we say here that BNP is a separate Church? It seems… what do you think?
By the way, According to the St. Elizabeth Ann Seton Catholic Community Bulletin dated November 16, 2008, when BNP “built their church on Riverside Dr. in Ontario, CA, they filed with the Superior Court of California, County of Los Angeles in Long Beach, and claimed to be a separate church with ESTANISLAO HOKSON STUART as their pastor.”
Who made him a pastor? For sure it’s not the Catholic Church.
As we know that Estanislao Hokson Stuart is the current husband of Remedios Bautista Rios. Do you know who Remedios Bautista Rios is? According to the document I have dated May 16, 1996, she is the same as Mrs. Salvacion Aguillon Carreon or Ate Salve in short. Why did she change her named when she married Estanislao Hokson Stuart? That I will have to research… If you know, post it here.
lefawe
B
believer112
Guest
i don’t know why people insist on defining the BNP ,by how the movement pays its taxes or by how the federal government describes it to be , If I apply the same argument and comparison to the Catholic Church … the diocese of Los Angeles would be a different church from the diocese of San Bernardino , because they are two different taxable entities defined as churches and they pay their taxes separately…Every Catholic knows that we are one Church. one Mystical Body of Christ , because we are in Communion with the Pope in Rome , who is Christ’s Vicar on earth …
This argument is false because the BNP has more deeper meaning ,than how it is defined by the government for the purpose of taxation …like Jesus said " render unto Caesar, what is Caesar’s, render unto God , what is God’s… Material things and definitions cannot fullly explain what the BNP is …
As to the use of the words "Mahal Na Ingkong " to define God , I can tell you this
There are between 100 and 150 major languages and dialects in the world , and each language has at least 3 words for God or their concept of God , If you do the math there are between 300 to 450 words for God all around the world…so how do you know that Mahal na Ingkong is not a valid Name for God.?
The BNP has no dogma … we do not teach that belief or disbelief in Mahal Na Ingkong is essential to anybody’s salvation. Like the Gospel , we can only proclaim Mahal Na Ingkong’s name and His mission in the BNP… we do not use any form of coercion or intimidation to force anyone to believe in Him or in the BNP.
Hope this clears up any misconceptions and errors about the BNP and its mission
This argument is false because the BNP has more deeper meaning ,than how it is defined by the government for the purpose of taxation …like Jesus said " render unto Caesar, what is Caesar’s, render unto God , what is God’s… Material things and definitions cannot fullly explain what the BNP is …
As to the use of the words "Mahal Na Ingkong " to define God , I can tell you this
There are between 100 and 150 major languages and dialects in the world , and each language has at least 3 words for God or their concept of God , If you do the math there are between 300 to 450 words for God all around the world…so how do you know that Mahal na Ingkong is not a valid Name for God.?
The BNP has no dogma … we do not teach that belief or disbelief in Mahal Na Ingkong is essential to anybody’s salvation. Like the Gospel , we can only proclaim Mahal Na Ingkong’s name and His mission in the BNP… we do not use any form of coercion or intimidation to force anyone to believe in Him or in the BNP.
Hope this clears up any misconceptions and errors about the BNP and its mission
G
gwenethjane
Guest
Being here in the Philippines, I never heard of BMP…but there is another religion here that is also calling God as Mahal na Ingkong and I think this is where Salve Carreon gets her IDEA, I never went to any BMP seminars or whatever so I can’t tell anything about it…All I can tell is that she is claiming things that a previous much older religion in the Phillippines has already claimed like Jesus’ b-day is October 23 and that God, the Holy Spirit’s new name is “Mahal na Ingkong”… so if she is claiming things that a previous person has claimed, what will that make of her? An impostor? you decide.
mahalnaingkong.blogspot.com/2009_11_22_archive.html
…And FYI, The Roman Catholic Church new doctines based on VATICAN II are oppossed to the one founded by the Apostles of Jesus such as Saint Peter…so Please stop defending Roman Catholic Church either…as if it’s the GREATEST RELIGION ON PLANET EARTH! That anyone’s against it is heretic or demonic.
first off, Why will you take the holy flesh of God in the form of an “ostia” from a minister, who is not a priest and not ordained by the Archbishop?.. why will you take it from your hand and swallow it? I thought that is the holy body of Christ? so are your hands all that clean and pure to even take it? That it should be handled by the priest only, to take in your mouth thus remaining the sacredness of it.
second, Why is the blood of God, not included in the communion either?
third, Why do Priest forgot to sprinkle Holy water before and after the mass?
fourth, Why does burning of Incense is not done during mass anymore?
I’m not taking any sides in all of this, I believe religion alone cannot save a person, it’s in his heart and purest of intention will God seek, if he led a holy life of love and obedience.
And that God do love us all equally.
mahalnaingkong.blogspot.com/2009_11_22_archive.html
…And FYI, The Roman Catholic Church new doctines based on VATICAN II are oppossed to the one founded by the Apostles of Jesus such as Saint Peter…so Please stop defending Roman Catholic Church either…as if it’s the GREATEST RELIGION ON PLANET EARTH! That anyone’s against it is heretic or demonic.
first off, Why will you take the holy flesh of God in the form of an “ostia” from a minister, who is not a priest and not ordained by the Archbishop?.. why will you take it from your hand and swallow it? I thought that is the holy body of Christ? so are your hands all that clean and pure to even take it? That it should be handled by the priest only, to take in your mouth thus remaining the sacredness of it.
second, Why is the blood of God, not included in the communion either?
third, Why do Priest forgot to sprinkle Holy water before and after the mass?
fourth, Why does burning of Incense is not done during mass anymore?
I’m not taking any sides in all of this, I believe religion alone cannot save a person, it’s in his heart and purest of intention will God seek, if he led a holy life of love and obedience.
And that God do love us all equally.
- Status