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corazon
Guest
Here in Utah everyone went crazy over the release of the movie, a girl from work rented the whole 300 seats IMAX theater for the Twilight premier!
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Dtmccameron
Guest
…so she could watch it alone, or bring 299 of her closest friends and family?Here in Utah everyone went crazy over the release of the movie, a girl from work rented the whole 300 seats IMAX theater for the Twilight premier!
Crazy, regardless. I think a deal of hostility towards the books might be this sort of fevour which is so prevalent. A bit like Oboma-mania. Or hearing a song on the radio over and over. Doesn’t matter how good, bad, morally acceptable/unacceptable it is, you begin to hate it for another reason altogether, that it’s being shoved down your throat.
Seriously, no one would care about this book if it remained on a shelf in the bookstore ignored with all the other “Young adult” dribble, instead of taking away the Sociology section so we could have a bloody Twilight section!
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RSD
Guest
I am puzzled by the many Catholic parents and teachers who ban this book. What books do they allow?
Hamlet, by Shakespeare, which has a ghost, incest, murder, revenge.
Pride and Prejudice, which has a 15 year old girl running away with a man who turns out to be a serial rapist, and the best thing the family can do for her is to force the man to marry her?
Huckleberry Finn, in which the protagonist willingly sells his soul to the devil, in order to save his friend Jim from the slave catchers, which he does by lying?
The Wizard of Oz, in which the title character is a complete fraud?
See Spot Run, which as far as I know does not have any morally objectionable characters, but is a little limited when it comes to teaching virtue?
Oliver Twist, in which the title character meets a kind and friendly man (the friendliest man who will talk to him) who teaches him to be a thief?
I am serious. I would really like to know what books are allowed by the people who ban Twilight? What books are required reading in your high school? Has the Bishop got a list of recommended reading for high school age girls?
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CatholicSamurai
Guest
This is funny because I just watched the movie yesterday. I was curious (plus I do have a daughter [age: 18 mos]). Just preparing myself for something like this in the future. I am male and personally, I thought the movie dragged. I simply wanted to know why girls would want this. I utilized my “Theology of the Body” lens when I was watching the movie.
Personally, I won’t bar my daughter (once she comes of age and something similar shows up in her lifetime). However, before I allow her… I would caution her and take the opportunity to educate her on the ‘whys.’ That way my daughter will be armed. We’re Catholics, not Puritans. I understand the reason to ban this type of literature but that would also mean not giving them the freedom to choose what is right.
No offense but the reason a lot of girls eat up something like this is because they don’t know why they’re female and therefore are lost as to how to live like a female. And the same thing goes for males. I’m sorry we’re such pigs. Most of us don’t know the why of being male and therefore we don’t know how. Girls like Edwards. They want to be loved. Don’t worry… it’s not their fault in most cases. It’s just how we’ve been branded in society today. If men only lived up to the challenge, there would be no need for Edward. I’ll stop now.
Personally, I won’t bar my daughter (once she comes of age and something similar shows up in her lifetime). However, before I allow her… I would caution her and take the opportunity to educate her on the ‘whys.’ That way my daughter will be armed. We’re Catholics, not Puritans. I understand the reason to ban this type of literature but that would also mean not giving them the freedom to choose what is right.
No offense but the reason a lot of girls eat up something like this is because they don’t know why they’re female and therefore are lost as to how to live like a female. And the same thing goes for males. I’m sorry we’re such pigs. Most of us don’t know the why of being male and therefore we don’t know how. Girls like Edwards. They want to be loved. Don’t worry… it’s not their fault in most cases. It’s just how we’ve been branded in society today. If men only lived up to the challenge, there would be no need for Edward. I’ll stop now.
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rayne89
Guest
I read all the books because my daughter wanted to read them. She’s 13 and yes I let her read them after I did. One thing that struck me in the first book is at one point Bella started talking about romantic feelings. She asks Edward if he ever has those kind of feelings. Edward replies I may not be human but I am a man. Bella then asks if sometime in the future, she’s vague but you get what she’s getting at. He says I don’t think that will be possible for us. So here we have all these girls going gaga over this male book character who is saying I don’t need sex to be with you.
There weren’t books like that when I was teenager. The teen romance books were all about “the first time”.
In the later books Edward insists on marriage before sex. These books are wildly popular. Even the sex after marriage scene in very vague. And really so what Edward is naked? He’s certainly not described, and they are married. There’s nothing dirty about sex after marriage. There’s nothing dirty about seeing your husband naked.
There weren’t books like that when I was teenager. The teen romance books were all about “the first time”.
In the later books Edward insists on marriage before sex. These books are wildly popular. Even the sex after marriage scene in very vague. And really so what Edward is naked? He’s certainly not described, and they are married. There’s nothing dirty about sex after marriage. There’s nothing dirty about seeing your husband naked.
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Matrix_Refugee
Guest
I never got that vibe from it: if you’re referring to Wickham, he struck me as the “get on a girl’s good side to the point that she’ll sleep with him and then dump her afterward” sort. Back then, it was almost a pre-requisite for marriage that a good middle-class girl kept her virginity intact, and even the most covert affair, if it was brought to light, was considered scandal enough to destroy a girl’s reputation and make her unfit for a good match.
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RSD
Guest
After Wickham left town with Lydia, “All Meryton seemed striving to blacken the man who, but three months before, had been almost an angel of light. He was declared to be in debt to every tradesman in the place, and his intrigues all honoured with the title of seduction, had been extended into every tradesman’s family.” (emphasis mine) If it were just as you said, that would be seduction, which means that at least at some level the girl consented. When his intrigues were not actually seduction, but something else for which no word could be printed in those days, what does that leave? Which we hesitate less to name these days?
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GAHere
Guest
Had no intention or interest in reading the books but while on vacation recently my sister insisted I take a look. She handed all 4 books to me (in case I liked it an wanted to continue). I read them in 4 days (I was leaving the end of the week).
I expected controversy after reading this thread and the other one about Twilight and Catholic schools. I found none, surprisingly. What I DID find was a LOT of material to support Catholic teaching and a popular venue to raise moral issues with teens for discussion:
Pro-life:
The Cullens are the light within the darkness of their world because they make a conscious decision to accept their fate without caving into the pressures around them to give in to their basic desires. They choose not to become monsters by living a ‘vegetarian’ lifestyle (feeding only on animals, not humans). They, and the ‘wolves’ exist to protect human life even though humans would seek to kill them.
Pro-faith:
The source of the Cullens’ choice in lifestyle stems from Carlisles belief in the soul, and the hope that there may be an afterlife, even for them. That is his motivation. He shares that with his family (coven). They struggle with allowing themselves the hope but choose the lifestyle because they prefer living out their existence engaging in reality instead of hiding and killing.
Pro-family:
The Cullens’ coven was designed to be a family. Throughout the series, particularly in the last book, the bonds of family ties gets discussed. It becomes their saving grace because of the love they share.
Pro-chastity:
Edward’s an old-fashioned guy and he insists on preserving Bella’s chastity out of love and respect for her and her soul. That is clear in the book, nothing implied, so it’s a great springboard for discussion with teens.
Pro-marriage:
Carlisle and Esme, Emmett and Rosalie, Edward and Bella married. I’m still not clear about Alice and Jasper, but there’s no indication they are sexually active, either, so that’s kinda just ‘out there’. While it is unclear with the other vampire covens whether or not marriage matters, it’s definitely the path the Cullen coven chooses for their lifestyle, again, out of respect for the belief that God exists and that his rules are for the best interest of his creations.
In the end, the thing to remember is that this is an alternate reality fiction story. In ‘this’ world where vampires and werewolves exist, God also exists and the players are faced with choices for their existence - choices which have moral implications. I found it very rewarding to have the author choose the higher ground for all those choices. I don’t see how this could be bad for teens.
I expected controversy after reading this thread and the other one about Twilight and Catholic schools. I found none, surprisingly. What I DID find was a LOT of material to support Catholic teaching and a popular venue to raise moral issues with teens for discussion:
Pro-life:
The Cullens are the light within the darkness of their world because they make a conscious decision to accept their fate without caving into the pressures around them to give in to their basic desires. They choose not to become monsters by living a ‘vegetarian’ lifestyle (feeding only on animals, not humans). They, and the ‘wolves’ exist to protect human life even though humans would seek to kill them.
Pro-faith:
The source of the Cullens’ choice in lifestyle stems from Carlisles belief in the soul, and the hope that there may be an afterlife, even for them. That is his motivation. He shares that with his family (coven). They struggle with allowing themselves the hope but choose the lifestyle because they prefer living out their existence engaging in reality instead of hiding and killing.
Pro-family:
The Cullens’ coven was designed to be a family. Throughout the series, particularly in the last book, the bonds of family ties gets discussed. It becomes their saving grace because of the love they share.
Pro-chastity:
Edward’s an old-fashioned guy and he insists on preserving Bella’s chastity out of love and respect for her and her soul. That is clear in the book, nothing implied, so it’s a great springboard for discussion with teens.
Pro-marriage:
Carlisle and Esme, Emmett and Rosalie, Edward and Bella married. I’m still not clear about Alice and Jasper, but there’s no indication they are sexually active, either, so that’s kinda just ‘out there’. While it is unclear with the other vampire covens whether or not marriage matters, it’s definitely the path the Cullen coven chooses for their lifestyle, again, out of respect for the belief that God exists and that his rules are for the best interest of his creations.
In the end, the thing to remember is that this is an alternate reality fiction story. In ‘this’ world where vampires and werewolves exist, God also exists and the players are faced with choices for their existence - choices which have moral implications. I found it very rewarding to have the author choose the higher ground for all those choices. I don’t see how this could be bad for teens.
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laurie_francis
Guest
I have to say I agree wholeheartedly, and I think we could reach a lot of teens with this message, I haven’t had a chance to read the other books…but now you have me more that eager. I had hoped that the reference to the 300 some year old cross that Carlisle brings with him wherever he goes foreshadowed some hope of redemption even for them…
Maybe all of us fans should work together to draw out the deeper meanings that seem to be lost on so many, because I think not just teens could be reached with this novel. So many people are lost in this materialistic society we live in thinking that wealth and sexual fulfillment at anyone’s expense is the way to lasting happiness. As opposed to living from a deeper reality…the realities that Edward so eloquently struggles with in Twilight.
Laurie Francis
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GAHere
Guest
Oh my goodness, get started right away! Twilight was just the tip of the iceberg of a much bigger story.
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Becks
Guest
The biggest disappointment I had with the books was their missed opportunity for a really cool theological angle. The books touched on the disagreement between the vampires on the states of their souls. Edward thinks that he has lost his soul and has no chance at salvation (hence his reluctance to allow Bella to be turned into a vampire). Later on in the series, we find out that Carlisle disagrees (something about seeing the good in Edward makes him no that they can’t be damned?). None of them really know what their status is as far as salvation. This was a really cool storyline to me that was dropped without ever being resolved.
Admittedly, I am a 28 year old guy who is very interested in theological concerns and, therefore, probably quite different than your typical reader.
Admittedly, I am a 28 year old guy who is very interested in theological concerns and, therefore, probably quite different than your typical reader.
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GAHere
Guest
I’m glad she didn’t expound upon the theological aspects because if she had, they would have taken a mormon skew to them. This way, the issues are put out there and the reader can ponder them under their own faith-based lense.
None of them know if there is a place for them after they cease to exist. That is clear in the books. Carlisle hopes there is something out there for them because of Edward’s heart (life choices). Given that Edward considers himself already damned, that’s all the more reason for Carlisle to see the hope through him. Edward has nothing to lose by giving into his own desires, but he chooses to deny himself for the sake of someone else. This, to Carlisle, having been raised in the faith, is obviously a Christian attitude Edward ascribes to of his own free will.
The reason Carlisle’s hope makes sense to me (or at least is worth my consideration while reading the books) is because he was a victim of a crime. We are told that bad things can happen to good people, but we are called to rise above those things so that good can come from it. This is what is said to pro-choice people with regard to rape which results in a pregnancy. The victim not condemn themselves or the child. They should carry the child to term, then keep it or put it up for adoption.
Carlisle was given worse than a death sentence - he was victimized to eternal life. What he does with that life matters to him because he hopes that God has something in mind for people in his shoes. I guess he’s lucky he wasn’t successful at suicide because that surely would have done him in. But I could understand why he’d then choose to live off animals and choose to become a medical physician, given his options.
The greater question lies in whether or not Carlilse gave up his right to any hope for himself when he ‘saved’ Edward and Esme (and so on, down the line). There’s the moral aspect worth discussing, in my opinion.
What theological angle would you have liked to have seen?
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Becks
Guest
I guess you’re right that in developing the salvation issue the author may have taken it in a direction that I didn’t like and that would’ve been disappointing as well, I didn’t think of it that way. I just figured she took the easy way out and developed the easier storyline.
I really just enjoyed the vampires having different opinions on their status and how that effected their attitudes toward Bella’s conversion. It would’ve been interesting to know Edward’s view of the issue AFTER Bella’s conversion, but it wasn’t discussed anymore.
I really just enjoyed the vampires having different opinions on their status and how that effected their attitudes toward Bella’s conversion. It would’ve been interesting to know Edward’s view of the issue AFTER Bella’s conversion, but it wasn’t discussed anymore.
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GAHere
Guest
I, too, was wondering how he was going to reconcile his conviction under Plan A, but then Meyer sidestepped that with the delivery. It really played into their favor with Charlie later when Jacob explained the situation. I give Meyer credit for that one.
It brings us back to the first theological salvation question about the state of the ‘victim’s’ soul. If being a victim left room for some redemptions for Carlilse, what happened to that hope when he turned Edward in the first place? When Edward turned Bella, what hope remained for him? Rosalie was a victim (‘saved’ by Carlisle for Edward) but she sought revenge so she’s out. Alice was a victim of some other vampire but I don’t recall if she ever fed on humans. Jasper had lived the ‘normal’ vampire existence before Alice found him so he’s already gone. Esme and Emmet seem to be the only ones remaining to be saved based on the ‘victim’ theory. On the turn alone, I would say they’re doomed because no matter the intent, they played God by extending a life beyond that which was played out for that person, even if the person chose that option. This opens the opportunity to discuss euthanasia and abortion with our teens. Even if a person at the end of their life wants to die, we cannot play God by assisting them. Even if we would like to have children someday, we cannot play God by determining when that day will be by aborting a pregnancy which comes at a ‘bad time’.
That leaves the theological redemption theory. Is there redemption toward salvation based on selectively turning another person as Carlisle did? Edward, for the sake of his mother, in an attempt to use his power to save a life? Esme, to save her from death for himself? Rosalie, saving her from death in an attempt to find a mate for Edward? Rosalie then ‘saving’ Emmet from death to become her mate? And Edward to save the mother of his child? That’s the the more interesting debate. Will living their remaining existence for how many more centuries never turning another human atone for the the few turns they made? Will it redeem Rosalie or Jasper? Is there hope based on choices remaining to be made during a vampire’s existence or does all hope die when they were turned in the first place? This opens the opportunity to discuss salvation by works, salvation by faith, and the sacrament of reconciliation.
Personally, I’m more into the Quilete story. Team Jacob for me, but I couldn’t help but still ponder on the Cullen issues as they relate to Catholicism. By the time I got to the last book it read more like X-men and Fantastic Four to me, but that’s great 'cause I love both!
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Becks
Guest
If you were more interested in the werewolf side of things, were you ok with the switch in narrators toward the end? That would’ve given you more of the storyline that you enjoyed. For me, I hated the switch. I don’t know that it was because I liked the vampire storyline better so much as that I didn’t like the inconsistency.
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GAHere
Guest
Well I didn’ t know about the werewolf thing until New Moon, of course, and I was enjoying the way the story was flowing as it was that way. I can’t recall if the switch started in Eclipse or Breaking Dawn, but I do remember being irritated with it.
The switch probably helped fuel my preference for that storyline. I do remember wondering if I would care about the vampire storyline once Jacob’s part was done, but by Breaking Dawn the story started reading more like a comic book to me than anything else so it worked out fine. I think she could have told the whole story without breaking it up like that but maybe it’s just the way it came to her.
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John655
Guest
**I just read Twilight because my 13 yo son had asked to read it. I admit it was a very intriguing read (fast paced and engaging) although the theology is not coming from a Christian world view. My son enjoys fantasy - and we’ve let him read Harry Potter (we talked through the theological implications w/ him).
I haven’t spent much time on this site - so forgive me if this is a rehash of an old thread - but what to you think about the *Twilight *series? Thanks
I haven’t spent much time on this site - so forgive me if this is a rehash of an old thread - but what to you think about the *Twilight *series? Thanks
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GiannaElizabeth
Guest
www.spesunica.wordpress.com
This is an awesome website that offers a Catholic perspective on the Twilight books - I suggest you check it out!
This is an awesome website that offers a Catholic perspective on the Twilight books - I suggest you check it out!
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AmberDale
Guest
Your going to get people who LOVE it, people who like it, people who dislike it, and then people who HATE it. Those who seem to HATE it are trying to push, push, push how anit-whatever it is. Anit-woman, Anti-Catholic, Anti-lfe. Those of us who LOVE it try to explain how it isn’t Anti any of those things.
You’ve just got to go at it with the idea of it being fiction and fantasy. If you have read it and think it’s fine, then your 13 year old can read it. If you don’t care how the vampires don’t follow the “already established” lore,
(Lore…not factual…vampires aren’t real)…Me personally, I love Twilight. I’ve read the entire series three times. I’ve seen the movie (which could have been better) and am awaiting the next one. I’m also a fan of Harry Potter, LOTR, Narnia, The Looking Glass Wars, Sookie Stackhouse novels, David Eddings Books, Star Wars books…and so on and so forth.
I wouldn’t let my 13 year old read Breaking Dawn, it’s a bit graphic. But if you read it, you’ll make up your own mind.
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crav4knowledge
Guest
I don’t know if anyone here knows about the Twilight series. It is a four series book which I am thinking about reading over the up coming holidays. I couple of months of ago I saw the movie. I found myself desiring to see it again. I watched clips online but recently I bought the movie and watch it when I have free time. Now I am not crazy about the vampires, it is more of the love story behind it. So my question is…How does the church feel about these kind of books and movies?
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