Border wall for illegal inmigration

[Midwest88]

Have you seen the prototype of the US-Mexico border wall? What a beaut.

 

[Cthompson]

“They still voted for Trump”

I certainly wasn’t going to vote for Hillary

 

[HarryStotle]

No, Americans don’t want those jobs. No one in America wants to work on a farm, with dangerous equiptment for 11 cents an hour for 18 hour days, 7 days a week for 5 months a year.

By what sense of justice is it then permissible to pay illegal immigrants 11¢ and hour for 18 hour days, seven days a week?

I suppose slavery is then fine, in your estimation, provided it is illegal foreigners and not Americans who are the ones who bear the burden.

Weren’t there injunctions in the OT regarding the treatment of foreigners? What about the golden rule regarding doing to others?

Are we at the point of justifying illegal immigration on the grounds that it is permissible to treat illegals poorly?

I would suggest you rethink this.

 

[AlNg]

There is a line on the ground at the Vatican. That is it, in fact you can be walking down the street and accidentally walk into the Vatican. No border guards, no security, no wall, no fence, not even a curb!

There are border walls in some areas surrounding the Vatican.

 

[garegin_asatrya]

First off, how do you respond to a thread without responsing to a specific member?
Back to the OP. I think the argumentation here is a bit silly. It jumps from one non sequitur to another. You hate farmers exploiting illegals, yet you don’t want to stop illegals trespassing our border. Well, duh. If someone is doing something illegally, another can blackmail them.
If you want an honest answer, it’s because many Catholics are Mexicans and “sympathize” with them. Of course, people want a better life. The whole world wants a better life. But they are not entiled to it. The issue is that America is partially to blame for the drug war that’s causing this issue. I say stop the drug war. Let people who don’t care about themselves do what they want with them. Don’t let thousands of innocents die. Ozzy Osborne can jump off a cliff for all I care. As long the US is not bombing drug farms and harrassing peaceful people.
The bottom line is this. A nation has a border. It’s completely within the rights of that nation to secure it and not let criminals break in. And yes, we should have free trade and let Mexico prosper, but you think that goes well with foolish voters who want more protectionism. People hate outsourcing. How the h*** is the third world supposed to develop if the devoloped nations stop outsourcing, like when Trump stopped Ford from building a plant in Mexico.
If you’re so compassionate, increase immigration quotas. Then again, the whole world wants to come here illegally. It won’t make a difference.
My aunt was refused a travel visa because so many Armenians overstay their visas. Just the other day, Dress Barn treated me with suspecion (I was visiting to fix their stuff) because they had a recent shoplifting. Lawbreaking makes people treat others with mistrust.

 

[HarryStotle]

You know something’s wrong in the world when more Catholics seem to be supporting Trump’s wall than Pope Francis’s bridge.

The problem with simplistic analysis is that it is, well… Simplistic.

I suppose that Charles Martel should have built bridges instead of putting up barriers to the invasion of the Frankish realm by the Umayyad Caliphate led by 'Abdul Rahman Al Ghafiqi?

The problem with disarming oneself against everything is that you disarm yourself against EVERYTHING. And bridges that let everything come over them, let EVERYTHING come over. Perhaps Jesus’ advice about spending a lot of time sweeping your house clean only to have it become swarmed by demons can also apply here.

When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it passes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ On its return, it finds the house swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they go in and dwell there. And the final plight of that man is worse than the first. (Luke 11:35)

I would think that all those unclean spirits would not have found their way back in the swept house of the house had been appropriately secured.

Yes. Yes, I know, I am a very bad man for thinking ill of a large sector of humanity. Actually, I would be in favour of permitting decidedly good people into the country where I live. It’s the indiscriminate “open house” politics that are troubling. Jesus’ parable definitely applies in that case. The house will be worse off after the owner opens his doors wide to the world.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

No, Americans don’t want those jobs. No one in America wants to work on a farm, with dangerous equiptment for 11 cents an hour for 18 hour days, 7 days a week for 5 months a year.

By what sense of justice is it then permissible to pay illegal immigrants 11¢ and hour for 18 hour days, seven days a week?

I suppose slavery is then fine, in your estimation, provided it is illegal foreigners and not Americans who are the ones who bear the burden.

Weren’t there injunctions in the OT regarding the treatment of foreigners? What about the golden rule rearding doing to others?

Are we at the point of justifying illegal immigration on the grounds that it is permissible to treat illegals poorly?

I would suggest you rethink this.

You are purposefully misquoting me. That’s gross.

I specifically said that it was a form of “modern day slavery” just previous to what you quoted.

I am AGAINST illegal immigration specifically because it enables corrupt men to abuse their fellow man.

Take a second and read my whole post. I was combating the argument that illegal immigrants simply do jobs that Americans refuse to.

My point–OF COURSE they refuse to. It’s a terrible situation.

 

[pnewton]

So what? No one is proposing building walls in this day and age. Nor is anyone proposing tearing down historical monuments for political purposes.

Being separated from the city, on the west bank of the Tiber river, the area was an outcrop of the city that was protected by being included within the walls of Leo IV (847–55), and later expanded by the current fortification walls, built under Paul III (1534–49), Pius IV (1559–65) and Urban VIII (1623–44).

 

[TheLittleLady]

No, there are some areas of the Vatican that are not open to the public,
but the borders are open. Been there.

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Who is giving the tax breaks? The United States? Our government would have no authority to do that with a foreign entity. Mexico, China, and India already have semi-conducive business environments (abundance of raw materials, cheap labor, land, lack of criminal justice systems, and emerging global economies to name a few. We should work on attracting workers and business to the United States by making the US a more business-friendly environment.

Work will never come back to the US. But we can encourage US companies to move from China/India to Mexico/Centeral America.

Again. Who is doing this fence building project?

My point is simply that the issue is not between the US and Mexico. Mexico is just the highway. The fence at our southern boarder will be worthless.

How would you punish farmers? Illegal immigration is already illegal, yet many workers are illegal. We have laws on the book. We don’t need more, we need to enforce the existing laws.

Where did I say we didn’t need to enforce our current laws? We do.

It’s not slavery because no one is held against their will.

Actually, do some research. Being illegal they are OFTEN heald against their will. No, they are not “owned” in the traditional sense, but the farmers do know how to get people deported who don’t do exactly what they say.

What would you suggest as a proper wage? Minimum wage? Benefits? Time and a half? Overtime? Weekend?
(…)
All of a sudden, a farmer can not longer hire any workers because one worker costs as many as 5 or 10 migrant workers after benefits, salaries, etc. instead of allowing the government to dictate what everyone is worth, why don’t we leave this conversation up to the individual and their employer??

YES.

Should people earn minimum wage? Are you kidding me? Are you actually going to sit here and argue that people should be paid a subhuman wage? I’m not all that set on a mandated “minimum” in general but surely you can’t be fine with 11 cents an hour because, whelp, that’s what it takes to get things done.

If the farmers have to buy more expensive automated equipment, so be it. It would be better than violating every law of wages, OSHA, overtime and basically every employment law out there.

If the cheap labor dried up things would change very quickly. Farmers would find a way. We’re not talking about mom’n’pop corner dairies with a couple dozen acres of land and a head of cattle. These farms are big agro. They know what they are doing.

 

[Cthompson]

Are you actually going to sit here and argue that people should be paid a subhuman wage?

What’s a good minimum wage? $7.25? Okay. Why don’t we just pay everyone $25 an hour? Or $50? Better yet, I feel bad for all those who are poor. Why don’t we just pay everyone $1,000,000/hour? Who is determining this minimum wage and off of what basis are they ascribing wage rates?

Maybe your idea of a minimum wage is good for you as a single young adult but if I have 6 kids as a single parent, well I need a higher minimum wage than you, unless you want me to work at a “subhuman” wage?

Or maybe there should be no minimum wage. Maybe I should be allowed to negotiate with my employer as to how much I think I’m worth…

 

[MonteRCMS]

Have you seen pictures of the very effective walls constructed by Israel?

 

[Xanthippe_Voorhees]

Xanthippe_Voorhees:

Are you actually going to sit here and argue that people should be paid a subhuman wage?

What’s a good minimum wage? $7.25? Okay. Why don’t we just pay everyone $25 an hour? Or $50? Better yet, I feel bad for all those who are poor. Why don’t we just pay everyone $1,000,000/hour? Who is determining this minimum wage and off of what basis are they ascribing wage rates?

Maybe your idea of a minimum wage is good for you as a single young adult but if I have 6 kids as a single parent, well I need a higher minimum wage than you, unless you want me to work at a “subhuman” wage?

Or maybe there should be no minimum wage. Maybe I should be allowed to negotiate with my employer as to how much I think I’m worth…

I’d say a fair point for minimum wage is around 75% poverty line. Business, of course, would want to pay more, because they want skilled workers.

The problem with illegal immigrants is that they have NO negotiating power. And they do unskilled work. One is just as good as another. They are expendable. Their are many an unnamed grave in places of big agro. They don’t know the language, they don’t know what rights they have. Even if we say no minimum wage, you really want to say that hours worked and safety are not an issue for the greater public?

One would hope that by the time that one enters adulthood one would have gained more skills. If one finds themselves in a situation as a single parent with 6 kids, I’m all for the government helping these citizens. I do not think by merit of # of children or life situation someone deserves more money.

And I have a family. I know the value of a dollar. My husband doesn’t deserve to be paid more because he has a wife and kids. He didn’t deserve to be paid more when we opened our house to my niece for a year.

Minimum wage should, at the very least, afford a single person a shared room and food.

These employers have determined that these workers are “worth” 11 to 80 cents an hour. Migrants still come in droves–illegally, of course-- to fill these roles. Are you really morally ok with that?

 

[MonteRCMS]

PolitiFact | Border fence in Israel cut illegal immigration by 99 percent, GOP senator says

 

[Cthompson]

Minimum wage should, at the very least, afford a single person a shared room and food.

Unfortunately, this is a relative statement. A room where? In a safe and luxurious part of town I hope. It certainly wouldn’t be moral to pay someone any less than being able to afford a really really expensive apartment. Same with food, too. I don’t want store brand. I want to be paid so the “food” that the minimum wage is covering should at least be from Whole Foods.

Migrants still come in droves–illegally, of course-- to fill these roles. Are you really morally ok with that?

There’s a reason why they are coming here. There are factors driving them to leave their families and work how they do. If there were better opportunities for them, they would take it gladly.

The problem with illegal immigrants is that they have NO negotiating power

Illegal immigrants actually have the highest negotiating power. They don’t have to be offered minimum wage, benefits, OT, etc. As a citizen, I would have to work for a minimum of $7.25/hour. An illegal immigrant could work for $5 or $6.20 or $7.25. Who would higher me to pick fruit at $7.25/hour when a migrant worker will do the same job (probably even better ) for $5/hour?

If there was no minimum wage, a citizen could compete with illegal labor. Most citizens who work on farms are poor, young, or low skilled. They need job experience and money. Unfortunately, the government prices them out of the job market by mandating them to be paid a relative amount (just happens to be $7.25 at this moment, federally).

The main argument for a minimum wage is emotional. Of course, no one wants people to be losing limbs in farm equipment or acting as a canary for the canary in the mine. But logically, a minimum wage hurts the people it was designed to help.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I’m against illegal immigration.
I don’t think a wall would fix it though, and would probably be just a big money suck.
I think the US should do more to penalize the people who keep hiring the illegals. If there were no jobs for them, they wouldn’t come here. And if that means people in the US have to pay more for something, then so be it.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

“They still voted for Trump”

I certainly wasn’t going to vote for Hillary

And now we a worse evil as POTUS…Good Job…

 

[Cthompson]

You believe President Trump is more of an evil that a would-have-been President Hillary? Even though she is anti-life, anti-traditional marriage, and anti-Christian?

President Trump isn’t perfect; however, I think he has done some great things for the Christian community that we should be grateful for.

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

politifact.com

GOP senator says Israel border fence cut illegal immigration

Need an example of a border wall that works? Look to Israel, President Donald Trump has repeatedly said. Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., echoed the idea during a Feb. 3 CNN interview, claiming that a border fence in Israel has drastically cut illegal…

Their wall was not intended to keep illegals out. It was intended to keep Terrorists out…

 

[JoshuaIsLord]

You believe President Trump is more of an evil that a would-have-been President Hillary? Even though she is anti-life, anti-traditional marriage, and anti-Christian?

President Trump isn’t perfect; however, I think he has done some great things for the Christian community that we should be grateful for.

Yes, he is more evil by leaps and bounds. But very few Catholics can see that because they are blinded by the those three issues you just mentioned. All other Christian Issues are forsaken for those three.