Boy Scouts - Gay acceptance

[CopticChristian]

m.dailykos.com/story/2010/09/18/903178/-Gays-are-pedophiles-No-Here-s-the-proof

Here’s an interesting excerpt from the article:
The US Catholic Bishops commissioned a study on priestly child sex abuse from John Jay College. John Jay researcher Margaret Smith reported back to the Bishops on early findings from their study. From the USA Today:

We do not find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now … It’s important to separate the sexual identity and the behavior. Someone can commit sexual acts that might be of a homosexual nature but not have a homosexual identity.

Seems even the Church knows how ridiculous the idea that gays are more likely to molest kids is.

You are absolutely 100% knoweldgeable with the information you have…fill in the blanks with this…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3302030

J Homosex. 1986 Winter-1987 Spring;13(2-3):89-110.
Pedophilia and the gay movement.
Sandfort T.
Abstract
A history of literature and views existing within the COC (Cultural and Recreational Center), the major Dutch organization of homosexual men and women, regarding pedophilia and its relationship to homosexuality are discussed, beginning with definite separation between the pedophile and homosexual identities and ending with an abolishment of oppression towards pedophilia, for which the COC is in part responsible. The article argues that the homosexual identify is by no means a “constant” but a fluid identity, based on societal views and conditions**. By accepting pedophilia, the COC hopefully will broaden the idea of the gay identity**.

familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/child-molestation-and-homosexuality-2/

Goals of the Gay Movement

The gay movement is forthright about seeking to legitimize child-adult homosexual sex. In 1987, The Journal of Homosexuality – the scholarly organ of the gay rights movement – published “Pedophilia and the Gay Movement.” (29) Author Theo Sandfort detailed homosexual efforts to end “oppression towards pedophilia.” In 1980 the largest Dutch gay organization (the COC) “adopted the position that the liberation of pedophilia must be viewed as a gay issue… [and that] ages of consent should therefore be abolished… by acknowledging the affinity between homosexuality and pedophilia, the COC has quite possibly made it easier for homosexual adults to become more sensitive to erotic desires of younger members of their sex, thereby broadening gay identity.”

In 1990 COC achieved a significant victory: lowering of the age of consent for homosexual sex in Holland to 12 (unless the parents object, in which case it goes up to 15). (30) In the U.S. and Canada, the North American Man-Boy Love Association marches proudly in many gay pride parades with the stated goal of removing the barriers to man-boy sex. Note the phrases “oppression towards pedophilia” and “liberation of pedophilia.” It is clear that those who advocate the legalization of sex between adults and children intend to argue that such conduct is a “civil right,” deserving of the same legal protections afforded to other minorities. A large proportion of Americans regard that argument as a mere pretext to giving “sexual predators” free reign to take advantage of vulnerable children.

homosexinfo.org/Sexuality/Pedophilia

The best hope of those arguing against an association between homosexuality and pedophilia is to either resort to semantic sophistry as in the definitions issue or steer the debate toward lifetime-exclusive homosexuals since few studies/datasets specifically address them, but one need only point out that the homosexual community itself includes as part of self a lot more people than lifetime-exclusive homosexuals, just as many academics do.

Expand your point of view and re-express your concerns…

 

[buffalo]

Ummm noooooo? I was merely pointing out that statistically speaking, gays are no more likely to molest children than straight people. The evidence backs that up, and studies indicating otherwise have been shown to be flawed.

Source?

 

[LaSainte]

You are absolutely 100% knoweldgeable with the information you have…fill in the blanks with this…

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3302030

familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/child-molestation-and-homosexuality-2/

homosexinfo.org/Sexuality/Pedophilia

Expand your point of view and re-express your concerns…

Please. This is some fringe group like NAMBLA and their ilk. By NO MEANS are even a significant minority of homosexuals trying to legitimize adult-child sex. I find your attempt to smear the vast majority of gays using this group of individuals to be offensive and bordering on detraction.

 

[LaSainte]

Source?

See above.

 

[buffalo]

Please. This is some fringe group like NAMBLA and their ilk. By NO MEANS are even a significant minority of homosexuals trying to legitimize adult-child sex. I find your attempt to smear the vast majority of gays using this group of individuals to be offensive and bordering on detraction.

The logical end point to societies’ permitting persons to act on their desires is where?

 

[CopticChristian]

Please. This is some fringe group like NAMBLA and their ilk. By NO MEANS are even a significant minority of homosexuals trying to legitimize adult-child sex. I find your attempt to smear the vast majority of gays using this group of individuals to be offensive and bordering on detraction.

You appear to miss the point…COC is a real Dutch organization…

***In 1980 the largest Dutch gay organization (the COC) “adopted the position that the liberation of pedophilia must be viewed as a gay issue… [and that] ages of consent should therefore be abolished… by acknowledging the affinity between homosexuality and pedophilia, the COC has quite possibly made it easier for homosexual adults to become more sensitive to erotic desires of younger members of their sex, thereby broadening gay identity.”

In 1990 COC achieved a significant victory: lowering of the age of consent for homosexual sex in Holland to 12 (unless the parents object, in which case it goes up to 15). ***

This is their website…it is a real group…not some fringe group…

coc.nl/engels

and here they are giving awards

hivos.org/news/hivos-lgbt-partner-wins-dutch-coc-bob-angelo-award

and here are other groups that you may not be aware of…

faculty.washington.edu/alvin/gayorg.htm#HUMANR

In this section you will find the COC, among others…

**HUMAN RIGHTS/LAW/POLITICS **

Dutch Organisation for Integration of Homosexuality. N.I.V.H.-COC (The Netherlands)
xs4all.nl/~nvihcoc/english.html

EGALE Egalite pour les Gais et les Lesbiennes. Equality for Gays and Lesbians (Canada)
egale.ca

Europride Vienna 2001
note: June 1-30, 2001; site available in German, English, Italian and French
europride.at

Family Pride Coalition
note: formerly called Gay and Lesbian Parents Coalition International
familypride.org

La France Gaie et Lesbienne. The France Queer Resources Directory
note: under the auspices of: Gais et Lesbiennes Branches
france.qrd.org/

Freedom to Marry Coalition (U.S.)
freedomtomarry.org

Gay and Lesbian Advocates & Defenders (GLAD) (New England)
note: lawyers representing glbt clients in sexual orientation, HIV/AIDS discrimination and invasion of privacy/confidentiality suits; educating public on laws and rights
glad.org

Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation. GLAAD (U.S.)
glaad.org/glaad

 

[LaSainte]

You appear to miss the point…COC is a real Dutch organization…

This is their website…it is a real group…not some fringe group…

coc.nl/engels

and here they are giving awards

hivos.org/news/hivos-lgbt-partner-wins-dutch-coc-bob-angelo-award

and here are other groups that you may not be aware of…

faculty.washington.edu/alvin/gayorg.htm#HUMANR

In this section you will find the COC, among others…

**HUMAN RIGHTS/LAW/POLITICS **

That’s pretty sick. But NAMBLA is a real group too. That doesn’t mean that any of these groups are representative of the VAST majority of homosexuals though. Most gays would be horrified by this n

 

[LaSainte]

The logical end point to societies’ permitting persons to act on their desires is where?

I’m not defending homosexuality. I’m defending the Boy Scouts’ right to accept openly gay members.

 

[edwest2]

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/01/18662824-boy-scouts-cant-wear-uniforms-at-gay-pride-parade-official-says?lite

usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/02/18699493-boy-scouts-defy-orders-wear-uniforms-in-utah-gay-pride-parade?lite

Ed

 

[Lion_IRC]

I was dissappointed to see Catholics singled out here;
spiritualfriendship.org/2013/05/19/on-my-honor-reflections-from-a-gay-eagle-scout/
for “blindly” going along with Church doctrine in opposition to this new Boy Scouts gay policy.

Catholics do not ”blindly” agree with church doctrine any more than they ”blindly” worship God for no reason.

It should come as no surprise that the response of mainstream Christianity to this NEW policy is one of dismay and withdrawal of public support.

The BSA have made their choice. Catholics are now making their choice. And they have that right both as parents and in the free-exercise of their religion!

 

[buffalo]

I’m not defending homosexuality. I’m defending the Boy Scouts’ right to accept openly gay members.

You didn’t answer the question though.

 

[CopticChristian]

That’s pretty sick. But NAMBLA is a real group too. That doesn’t mean that any of these groups are representative of the VAST majority of homosexuals though. Most gays would be horrified by this n

Well,

Since you appear to be in the know…go back to this link and point out for me which ones do not represent homosexuals…

faculty.washington.edu/alvin/gayorg.htm#HUMANR

then outline organizations that you know that do represent the vast majority of homosexuals.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

I was dissappointed to see Catholics singled out here;
spiritualfriendship.org/2013/05/19/on-my-honor-reflections-from-a-gay-eagle-scout/
for “blindly” going along with Church doctrine in opposition to this new Boy Scouts gay policy.

Catholics do not ”blindly” agree with church doctrine any more than they ”blindly” worship God for no reason.

It should come as no surprise that the response of mainstream Christianity to this NEW policy is one of dismay and withdrawal of public support.

The BSA have made their choice. Catholics are now making their choice. And they have that right both as parents and in the free-exercise of their religion!

They didn’t say all Catholics, they were talking about some of the ones they know which is different and they weren’t talking about blind agreement with the Catholic Church.

 

[LaSainte]

You didn’t answer the question though.

I would say incest. Anything consensual would be a logical endpoint. Beyond that, we are getting into hyperbole. (Ex: bestiality, legalized murder)

 

[april32010]

usccb.org/about/doctrine/publications/upload/ministry-to-persons-of-homosexual-iInclination.pdf

pg.17 For some persons, revealing their homosexual tendencies to certain close friends, family members, a spiritual director, confessor, or members of a Church support group may provide some spiritual and emotional help and aid them in their growth in the Christian life. In the context of parish life, however, general public self- disclosures are not helpful and should not be encouraged.

pg.22 Persons with a homosexual inclination should not be encouraged to define themselves primarily in terms of their sexual inclination, however, or to participate in “gay subcultures,” which often tend to promote immoral lifestyles. Rather, they should be encouraged to form relationships with the wider community.

pg. 22 Pastoral and psychological care for adolescents who struggle with sexual attraction issues is of particular importance. Adolescents with homosexual attractions can be at serious risk for personal difficulties, including suicidal tendencies and attempts as well as enticements to promiscuity and exploitation by adults. Every effort should be made to ensure that adolescents have access to age-appropriate professional counseling services that respect Church teaching in matters of human sexuality

 

[LaSainte]

Well,

Since you appear to be in the know…go back to this link and point out for me which ones do not represent homosexuals…

faculty.washington.edu/alvin/gayorg.htm#HUMANR

then outline organizations that you know that do represent the vast majority of homosexuals.

Clearly I don’t have time to go through every link provided. Some of those groups are anti-gay and some are pro-gay. Are you saying that ALL of the pro-gay groups listed are for lowering the age of consent to 11 or 12? You know this is not true.

It is also true that the majority of those who molest young boys do not identify as gay and most are not attracted to adult males.

You are trying to label gays here as pedophiles and that is just wrong.

psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html

 

[april32010]

ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfcertn.htm

It rests with the Bishops, the priests and their collaborators to alert the faithful against the erroneous opinions often expressed in books, reviews and public meetings.

Parents, in the first place, and also teachers of the young must endeavor to lead their children and their pupils, by way of a complete education, to the psychological, emotional and moral maturity befitting their age. They will therefore prudently give them information suited to their age; and they will assiduously form their wills in accordance with Christian morals, not only by advice but above all by the example of their own lives, relying on God’s help, which they will obtain in prayer. They will likewise protect the young from the many dangers of which they are quite unaware.

Artists, writers and all those who use the means of social communication should exercise their profession in accordance with their Christian faith and with a clear awareness of the enormous influence which they can have. They should remember that “the primacy of the objective moral order must be regarded as absolute by all,”[44] and that it is wrong for them to give priority above it to any so-called aesthetic purpose, or to material advantage or to success. Whether it be a question of artistic or literary works, public entertainment or providing information, each individual in his or her own domain must show tact, discretion, moderation and a true sense of values. In this way, far from adding to the growing permissiveness of behavior, each individual will contribute towards controlling it and even towards making the moral climate of society more wholesome.

All lay people, for their part, by virtue of their rights and duties in the work of the apostolate, should endeavor to act in the same way.

Finally, it is necessary to remind everyone of the words of the Second Vatican Council: "This Holy Synod likewise affirms that children and young people have a right to be encouraged to weigh moral values with an upright conscience, and to embrace them by personal choice, to know and love God more adequately.

Hence, it earnestly entreats all who exercise government over people or preside over the work of education to see that youth is never deprived of this sacred right."[45]

 

[CopticChristian]

Clearly I don’t have time to go through every link provided. Some of those groups are anti-gay and some are pro-gay. Are you saying that ALL of the pro-gay groups listed are for lowering the age of consent to 11 or 12? You know this is not true.

It is also true that the majority of those who molest young boys do not identify as gay and most are not attracted to adult males.

You are trying to label gays here as pedophiles and that is just wrong.

psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/HTML/facts_molestation.html

What is wrong is your failure to see that this one group that has lowered the age of consent in a country to age 16 is accepted as a bonified resource for the gay population. It is listed with all the others. There is something to be said about that.

Some homosexuals are pedophiles. Some pedophiles are homosexual. The entire notion of aberrant sexuality is wrong.

 

[signit]

As far as “not putting temptation in their way”, why don’t we just ban all male altar servers so that priests with SSA aren’t “tempted”? While we are at it, why not ban all male teachers at schools for girls, especially boarding schools. We should also ban all male coaches who coach girls gymnastics, softball, etc. Piano teachers too. And nannies/babysitters. Are you starting to see how ridiculous this is becoming? There will ALWAYS be people who are in authority over children who happen to be of the same sex that they are attracted to. A person who wants to have sex with kids will try to have sex with kids, gay or straight.

Ridiculous indeed.

Let’s not allow my uncle, a pillar of the community (and a married man with children) to teach high school because of course the only reason a man would want to do that is to be around teenage girls.

And why would a gay man want to be a scout leader? Maybe because he grew up as a scout, loved it, and wants to continue doing it and helping kids at the same time. Pretty much the exact same reason people become gymnastics coaches, wrestling coaches and music teachers.

Goodness people. If a gay man wanted to rape little boys in the scouts, he would probably start by NOT being openly gay so that nobody would ever suspect him. The openly gay guys with boyfriends are the LAST people you have to worry about molesting your children. That too-nice father of three who takes a special interest in your child and wants to take him to a baseball game? There’s your child-rapist right there.

There are indeed gay men who are former Boy Scouts, who do not prey on boys, who might simply want to share the positive experience with them. I’m thinking of one in particular. It’s just absurd to say that they’re all “weirdos” and “sickos” that only join so they can prey on boys.

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

What is wrong is your failure to see that this one group that has lowered the age of consent in a country to age 16 is accepted as a bonified resource for the gay population. It is listed with all the others. There is something to be said about that.

Some homosexuals are pedophiles. Some pedophiles are homosexual. The entire notion of aberrant sexuality is wrong.

Sex with 16 year olds isn’t pedophilia, at 16 some people have finished puberty especially females.