F
fix
Guest
There is no reason.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
F
fix
Guest
Apparently they have been taken over by the relativists. The answer to your question is no.Will the Scouts be able to proclaim truth with love?
F
Fairwinds
Guest
maybe we should make them identify as gay or straight. you know, to keep Them out.There is no reason.
E
edwest2
Guest
Source for your statement about homosexuality not being a disorder?I’m a bit surprised by this post pnewton- I wouldn’t have though you went this far.
But anyway. Homosexuality is sinful it is not a mental disorder as it does not manifest the features of psychological dysfunction.
Things can be wrong but still not be destructive in a psychological sense- masturbation is a classic example of this. It does not harm to the person- if the person carries no guilt- in fact masturbation has been shown to increase self-easteem and a sense of self-effecacy.
And yet masturbation is still sinful.
THere is nothing dysfunctional (in a psychological sense) about consensual homosexual activity.
Peace,
Ed
F
fix
Guest
Maybe we should celebrate faux diversity and call it love. You know like the Catholic lite crowd.maybe we should make them identify as gay or straight. you know, to keep Them out.
S
StJudeprayforme
Guest
Are you denying that bigotry against homosexuals exists? Also-- there is no such thing as a fake word.homophobic is a fake word. Not caring about the gay agenda is ignoring an important issue.
Peace,
Ed
I’m not ignoring the “gay agenda”. I oppose homosexual marriage and I fear that we are nearing the point of no return as a society on that issue. At the same time, there are those occasions when the “gay agenda” has some crossover with Church teaching: such as the respect of all human beings regardless of their sexual orientation, and the avoiding of unjust discrimination against homosexual persons. The admitting gay youth into the Boy Scouts is a case where the “gay agenda” and Church teaching seem to be in line.
L
Lochias
Guest
Ayup. None at all.There is no reason.
And, apparently, recognizing that is “homophobic” and “bigoted”.
There are time when I hate what the world has become.
B
buffalo
Guest
Why even force or encourage a boy to proclaim his sexual desires? That in itself is terrible.Are you denying that bigotry against homosexuals exists? Also-- there is no such thing as a fake word.
I’m not ignoring the “gay agenda”. I oppose homosexual marriage and I fear that we are nearing the point of no return as a society on that issue. At the same time, there are those occasions when the “gay agenda” has some crossover with Church teaching: such as the respect of all human beings regardless of their sexual orientation, and the avoiding of unjust discrimination against homosexual persons. The admitting gay youth into the Boy Scouts is a case where the “gay agenda” and Church teaching seem to be in line.
L
Lochias
Guest
No. But what you’re calling bigotry isn’t bigotry at all.StJudeprayforme;10788272 [QUOTE said:]Are you denying that bigotry against homosexuals exists?
“Greeble sneep-whop.” That means “a helicopter made out of cheese.”Also-- there is no such thing as a fake word.
Prove to me that “greeble sneep-whop” is a real word.
It’s not. Allowing youth who identify as “gay” (correctly or otherwise) is to condone their lifestyle choice. That is telling them “what you do with other boys is a-ok.” That is a lie.I’m not ignoring the “gay agenda”. I oppose homosexual marriage and I fear that we are nearing the point of no return as a society on that issue. At the same time, there are those occasions when the “gay agenda” has some crossover with Church teaching: such as the respect of all human beings regardless of their sexual orientation, and the avoiding of unjust discrimination against homosexual persons. The admitting gay youth into the Boy Scouts is a case where the “gay agenda” and Church teaching seem to be in line.
S
StJudeprayforme
Guest
They don’t need to identify and probably don’t do so, which was my point. You get very few new scouts after 14. As I have repeated before, this policy is more about older scouts who come out than it is about new scouts who are gay coming in.Please tell us why 11, 12 and 13-year-olds need identify as “gay” at all.
Also, no one needs to come out. I am not advocating that. I don’t really care either way. If someone is out though, we can’t just discriminate against said person.
F
fix
Guest
Are you denying there is bigotry against Catholics? Are you denying that contrived political terms are not used as a cudgel?Are you denying that bigotry against homosexuals exists? Also-- there is no such thing as a fake word.
No, that is not fair at all. The policy change is politically motivated. There was no need for it. Where is this tidal wave of unjust discrimination in the BSA?I’m not ignoring the “gay agenda”. I oppose homosexual marriage and I fear that we are nearing the point of no return as a society on that issue. At the same time, there are those occasions when the “gay agenda” has some crossover with Church teaching: such as the respect of all human beings regardless of their sexual orientation, and the avoiding of unjust discrimination against homosexual persons. The admitting gay youth into the Boy Scouts is a case where the “gay agenda” and Church teaching seem to be in line.
F
Fairwinds
Guest
so what if he just announces he’s gay and that’s all the “evidence” there’s gonna be. maybe he’s not practicing. maybe he’s a chaste gay. maybe he’s a full fledged gay. maybe he’s pushing buttons because he can, or maybe because he takes an ethical position that people shouldn’t be punished for what they are, only for what they do.Why even force or encourage a boy to proclaim his sexual desires? That in itself is terrible.
kick him out?
L
Lochias
Guest
Then it is endorsing the behavior of those older scouts. We aren’t allowed to do that.They don’t need to identify and probably don’t do so, which was my point. You get very few new scouts after 14. As I have repeated before, this policy is more about older scouts who come out than it is about new scouts who are gay coming in.
Reminding them through gentle but firm action that their life-style choices are hurtful to themselves and to others is not a bad thing. There is nothing inherently wrong with just discrimination.Also, no one needs to come out. I am not advocating that. I don’t really care either way. If someone is out though, we can’t just discriminate against said person.
Not allowing a mass-murderer into a school full of children, otherwise, could simply be said to be “discriminating” against the murderer.
F
fix
Guest
You certainly can justly discriminate. That depends on the factors of the case.If someone is out though, we can’t just discriminate against said person.
R
ringil
Guest
Homosexuality is not a mental disorder. That’s the source.Source for your statement about homosexuality not being a disorder?
Peace,
Ed
A bird is not a rock.
It is not a diagnosable mental disorder.
W
wynnejj
Guest
This represents the side of the coin in favour of prudential judgement towards adopting the policy. Yet, it is the “advocates of the gay lifestyle” concern that is really the gray area. The BSA National is taking a neutral position on the question of gay lifestyles. I’m not aware that it has a core value that sex belongs within marriage. It does have as a core value respect for the wide spectrum of faith-based organizations to teach and maintain its own beliefs. Catholic teaching says that we are obliged to denounce homosexual acts and legal acceptance in the public square, and most importantly within our own church-sponsored organizations. There is an assertion by the BSA National that they are non-sectarian and will not allow social advocacy by individuals or organizations. There comes a conflict when an individual who advocates for the gay lifestyle meets a chartered organization whose religious affiliate is obliged to teach anti-gay social advocacy.In that case, I can’t see what all the hubbub is about.
The BSA hasn’t suddenly morphed into a hypersexualized organization simply because they’re letting gay scouts in. And I mean just that! They’re letting gay scouts into the organization. They aren’t providing them with a soapbox to propagate the gay agenda.
I don’t know how many people participating in this thread have actually been scouts, but I have, and I’ve witnessed three fine scouts in my own troop dismissed simply because they were gay. Not because they were having sex with men (all three to my knowledge were virgins, as were most of us 14 year old boys), not because they were trying to recruit us straight scouts (believe me, with all the inappropriate conversations we’d have about girls that would’ve been impossible), and not because they were in any way trying to undermine the Scout Oath. These boys were excused from their membership for no other reason than their same-sex attraction became known to other scouts and/or troop leaders. This is the very definition of systematic discrimination. Many of you seem to not understand. It’s not that the old policy forbade “active” homosexuals, or “advocates of the gay lifestyle”, rather any and all boys who in any way admit that they are attracted to other boys were summarily dismissed.
I can’t help but think how the loss of fraternal camaraderie that these fine boys experienced may have further facilitated other questionable lifestyle choices later on. We wan’t same-sex attracted boys to forgo that urge and live a life reconcilable with Christian virtue? Then we need to stop alienating them and stop giving them no other choice than to label themselves as “other”.
L
Lochias
Guest
Sure it is, for reasons you can find all over CAF.Homosexuality is not a mental disorder. That’s the source.
A bird is not a rock.
It is not a diagnosable mental disorder.
S
StJudeprayforme
Guest
Yes, comparing the BSA to a drag show and saying it will be “fabulous” isn’t bigoted…No. But what you’re calling bigotry isn’t bigotry at all.
On a similar note, denying people membership in an organization based solely on who they are attracted to, not on their actions, which should remain unknown, isn’t bigoted? Okay.
“Greeble sneep-whop.” That means “a helicopter made out of cheese.”
If you use it as one and it catches on and is used with that specific meaning in the language, then yes, it is a word. Also, the fact that you just used it and gave it a definition is proof that it exists.Prove to me that “greeble sneep-whop” is a real word.
So recognizing that homosexual attraction exists and that there are some people for whom this is deep-seated is the sameas condoning it? I never knew the Catholic Church told people “What you do with other boys is a-ok.”It’s not. Allowing youth who identify as “gay” (correctly or otherwise) is to condone their lifestyle choice. That is telling them “what you do with other boys is a-ok.” That is a lie.
E
EvangelCatholic
Guest
Many Lutherans and Anglican synods worldwide view each individual as God’s creation
ELCA on sexuality:
The complexity of human sexuality
**God created human beings to be in relationship with each other and continually blesses us with diverse powers, which we use in living out those relationships. These include powers for action, reasoning, imagination, and creativity.
Sexuality especially involves the powers or capacities to form deep and lasting bonds, to give and receive pleasure, and to conceive and bear children. Sexuality can be integral to the desire to commit oneself to life with another, to touch and be touched, and to love and be loved. Such powers are complex and ambiguous. They can be used well or badly. They can bring astonishing joy and delight. Such powers can serve God and serve the neighbor. They also can hurt self or hurt the neighbor. Sexuality finds expression at the extreme ends of human experience: in love, care, and security, or lust, cold indifference, and exploitation.
Sexuality consists of a rich and diverse combination of relational, emotional, and physical interactions and possibilities. It surely does not consist solely of erotic desire. Erotic desire, in the narrow sense, is only one component of the relational bonds that humans crave as sexual beings. Although not all relationships are sexual, at some level most sexual relationships are about companionship. Although some people may remain single, either intentionally or unintentionally, all people need and delight in companionship, and all are vulnerable to loneliness.
The need to share our lives with others is a profound good (Genesis 2:18). The counsel to love and care for the neighbor is not a command that is foreign to our created natures; rather, reaching out in love and care is part of who we are as relational and sexual beings. Even if we never have sexual intimacy, we all seek and respond to the bonds and needs of relationships.
Sexual love — the complex interplay of longing, erotic attraction, self-giving, and receiving defined by trust — is a wondrous gift. The longing for connection, however, also can render human beings susceptible to pain, isolation, and harm. The desire for sexual love, therefore, does not by itself constitute a moral justification for sexual behavior. Giving and receiving love always involves mixed motives and limited understanding of individual and communal consequences.
The sharing of love and sexual intimacy within the mutuality of a mature and trusting relationship can be a rich source of romance, delight, creativity, imagination, restraint, desire, pleasure, safety, and deep contentment that provides the context for individuals, family, and the community to thrive.
Though sexual love remains God’s good gift, sin permeates human sexuality as it does all of life. When expressed immaturely, irresponsibly, or with hurtful intent, then love — or its counterfeit, coercive power — can lead to harm and even death. Too often lust is mistaken for love, which in turn becomes the rationale for selfish behaviors. When infatuation, lust, and self-gratification take the place of the responsibilities of love, cascading consequences result that can be devastating for partners, children, families, and society.
In recognizing the many ways in which people misuse power and love, we need to be honest about sin and the finite limitations of human beings. We also recognize the complexity of the human and societal forces that drive the desire for companionship, for intimate relation with another, for belonging, and for worth. The deep interconnectedness of the body with the mind and spirit suggests the complexity of such situations. The biblical narratives both rejoice in the splendor of sexual attraction (Song of Songs 4) and are candid about the harm that can result from human sexuality (2 Samuel 11, 13; Matthew 5:27–30). **
ELCA on sexuality:
The complexity of human sexuality
**God created human beings to be in relationship with each other and continually blesses us with diverse powers, which we use in living out those relationships. These include powers for action, reasoning, imagination, and creativity.
Sexuality especially involves the powers or capacities to form deep and lasting bonds, to give and receive pleasure, and to conceive and bear children. Sexuality can be integral to the desire to commit oneself to life with another, to touch and be touched, and to love and be loved. Such powers are complex and ambiguous. They can be used well or badly. They can bring astonishing joy and delight. Such powers can serve God and serve the neighbor. They also can hurt self or hurt the neighbor. Sexuality finds expression at the extreme ends of human experience: in love, care, and security, or lust, cold indifference, and exploitation.
Sexuality consists of a rich and diverse combination of relational, emotional, and physical interactions and possibilities. It surely does not consist solely of erotic desire. Erotic desire, in the narrow sense, is only one component of the relational bonds that humans crave as sexual beings. Although not all relationships are sexual, at some level most sexual relationships are about companionship. Although some people may remain single, either intentionally or unintentionally, all people need and delight in companionship, and all are vulnerable to loneliness.
The need to share our lives with others is a profound good (Genesis 2:18). The counsel to love and care for the neighbor is not a command that is foreign to our created natures; rather, reaching out in love and care is part of who we are as relational and sexual beings. Even if we never have sexual intimacy, we all seek and respond to the bonds and needs of relationships.
Sexual love — the complex interplay of longing, erotic attraction, self-giving, and receiving defined by trust — is a wondrous gift. The longing for connection, however, also can render human beings susceptible to pain, isolation, and harm. The desire for sexual love, therefore, does not by itself constitute a moral justification for sexual behavior. Giving and receiving love always involves mixed motives and limited understanding of individual and communal consequences.
The sharing of love and sexual intimacy within the mutuality of a mature and trusting relationship can be a rich source of romance, delight, creativity, imagination, restraint, desire, pleasure, safety, and deep contentment that provides the context for individuals, family, and the community to thrive.
Though sexual love remains God’s good gift, sin permeates human sexuality as it does all of life. When expressed immaturely, irresponsibly, or with hurtful intent, then love — or its counterfeit, coercive power — can lead to harm and even death. Too often lust is mistaken for love, which in turn becomes the rationale for selfish behaviors. When infatuation, lust, and self-gratification take the place of the responsibilities of love, cascading consequences result that can be devastating for partners, children, families, and society.
In recognizing the many ways in which people misuse power and love, we need to be honest about sin and the finite limitations of human beings. We also recognize the complexity of the human and societal forces that drive the desire for companionship, for intimate relation with another, for belonging, and for worth. The deep interconnectedness of the body with the mind and spirit suggests the complexity of such situations. The biblical narratives both rejoice in the splendor of sexual attraction (Song of Songs 4) and are candid about the harm that can result from human sexuality (2 Samuel 11, 13; Matthew 5:27–30). **
F
fix
Guest
Sex change operations are done. That must mean it is helpful. I mean the high-priest with the white coat said so.Sure it is, for reasons you can find all over CAF.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.