Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

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Robert_Sock said:
Would the risk of ‘flirting’ diminish if gays had to lie about their sexual orientation?
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Most definitely. Before the change, flirting with an unknown orientation might result in dismissal. That’s a deterrent. After the change, flirting with an openly professed gay would probably result in a polite Yes or No without repercussions due to their shared condition. Only if the flirtation was applied with pressure would the invitation meet with getting the scoutmaster involved. When selling, one can go out to an appointment without having qualified the prospect with low probability of a sale, or one can go out on an appointment to a pre-qualified prospect and be more likely to score the sale.
 
fix said:
Again I am saying first it was said no changes then they changed. That is hardly a track record to be proud of. The folks in the Church who are charged with dealing with this seem to be saying it should not be changed but since it has then well it is ok as long as Church teaching is followed. That is accenting the positive to be kind.

Why is Scouting so important that they should adapt to this political move? I am not sure it is that important.
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The NCCS comes off as go ahead and choose A or B, then follows up with statements that sounds like “I was hoping you would have chosen B” … without ever hinting beforehand their preference. Being “dumb” beforehand, as I call it, may indeed have valid reasons. In matters of prudential judgement where there is no right or wrong answer, just your best judgement, it may be incumbent upon oversight groups not to manipulate the best judgement of those who have the most pertinent vested interest … the scouting community itself. So my rant about them being “dumb” may in fact not be so “dumb” at all (… but you didn’t hear it from me because I’m still on a rant … 😛 )

Is Scouting that important? Scouting is like Coca Cola. I like Coke Classic, and I hated the New Coke. If Coca Cola hadn’t brought back Coke Classic, I’d switch brands … maybe, choose ginger ale.
 
EmperorNapoleon said:
Why is it that people keep approaching this as if gays are sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends? It couldn’t be farther from the truth.
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Indeed. As I pointed out earlier, it’s the gay boys who have more to fear from being found out or perceived to be gay in the BSA than do the straight boys. The minority of gay boys who may be “sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends” would probably have no thought of joining an organization like the BSA in the first place. Most gay boys don’t even think of having sex with straight boys despite their possible attraction; they prefer to seek other gay boys like them. This is all another myth about gay men. There are several such myths, just as there are myths about other groups, including Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, Asians, women, lesbians, liberals, conservatives, and on and on. We like to stereotype and demonize the “other”; it gives us a sense of superiority, self-esteem, and self-righteousness.
 
meltzerboy said:
Indeed. As I pointed out earlier, it’s the gay boys who have more to fear from being found out or perceived to be gay in the BSA than do the straight boys. The minority of gay boys who may be “sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends” would probably have no thought of joining an organization like the BSA in the first place. Most gay boys don’t even think of having sex with straight boys despite their possible attraction; they prefer to seek other gay boys like them. This is all another myth about gay men. There are several such myths, just as there are myths about other groups, including Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, Asians, women, lesbians, and on and on. We like to demonize the “other”; it gives us a sense of superiority, self-esteem, and self-righteousness.
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Oh. Well, that’s a much better situation for Scouting. 😛 😉
 
Could there have been a longer term agenda for wanting openly gay adult scout leaders? If it was voted to allow them in, what would have been their next step in the organization?
 
meltzerboy said:
Indeed. As I pointed out earlier, it’s the gay boys who have more to fear from being found out or perceived to be gay in the BSA than do the straight boys. The minority of gay boys who may be “sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends” would probably have no thought of joining an organization like the BSA in the first place. Most gay boys don’t even think of having sex with straight boys despite their possible attraction; they prefer to seek other gay boys like them. This is all another myth about gay men. There are several such myths, just as there are myths about other groups, including Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, Asians, women, lesbians, liberals, conservatives, and on and on. We like to stereotype and demonize the “other”; it gives us a sense of superiority, self-esteem, and self-righteousness.
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I would be most interested in your personal, religious view of psychology and psychiatry promoting the ‘normalcy’ of homosexual behavior? Is it totally genetic, or is it the clever work of Satan that begins very early in age?
 
wynnejj said:
The NCCS comes off as go ahead and choose A or B, then follows up with statements that sounds like “I was hoping you would have chosen B” … without ever hinting beforehand their preference. Being “dumb” beforehand, as I call it, may indeed have valid reasons. In matters of prudential judgement where there is no right or wrong answer, just your best judgement, it may be incumbent upon oversight groups not to manipulate the best judgement of those who have the most pertinent vested interest … the scouting community itself. So my rant about them being “dumb” may in fact not be so “dumb” at all (… but you didn’t hear it from me because I’m still on a rant … 😛 )

Is Scouting that important? Scouting is like Coca Cola. I like Coke Classic, and I hated the New Coke. If Coca Cola hadn’t brought back Coke Classic, I’d switch brands … maybe, choose ginger ale.
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The entire enterprise is political. It is all politics through and through.
 
meltzerboy said:
Indeed. As I pointed out earlier, it’s the gay boys who have more to fear from being found out or perceived to be gay in the BSA than do the straight boys. The minority of gay boys who may be “sex crazed maniacs lying in wait to molest their friends” would probably have no thought of joining an organization like the BSA in the first place. Most gay boys don’t even think of having sex with straight boys despite their possible attraction; they prefer to seek other gay boys like them. This is all another myth about gay men. There are several such myths, just as there are myths about other groups, including Jews, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Blacks, Latinos, Asians, women, lesbians, liberals, conservatives, and on and on. We like to stereotype and demonize the “other”; it gives us a sense of superiority, self-esteem, and self-righteousness.
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Is this not the usual double standard we get? Somehow we are told that homosexual attraction is simply a variation of normal thus homosexual persons are just like heterosexual persons. Then, when homosexual persons are together with the same sex suddenly it is vastly different them when male/female are together. Interesting how that works.
 
The Boy Scouts had a moral compass pointing in the direction of truth. Now it is pointing away from truth and towards political correctness. It is not that far from lies.
 
Robert_Sock said:
I would be most interested in your personal, religious view of psychology and psychiatry promoting the ‘normalcy’ of homosexual behavior? Is it totally genetic, or is it the clever work of Satan that begins very early in age?
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Personally, I don’t think homosexuality or same-sex attraction is normal or a normal variation of heterosexuality. It just doesn’t stand to reason that it would be normal despite evidence in the animal kingdom. There are anomalies in nature too. However, that doesn’t mean it is evil either or caused by Satan, who, as you might know, according to Judaism, is really one of the “good guys,” not a rebel or fallen angel. I also think that for some homosexuals, it may be totally genetic or mainly genetic, whereas for others it may be a mix of genetics and environment, and for still others, mainly environmental. For me, however, this has no bearing on how one should behave toward gay people and no bearing on the present issue of admitting gay boys to the BSA. I don’t equate homosexuality’s being abnormal or environmentally caused (in some instances) to its being immoral.
 
meltzerboy said:
Personally, I don’t think homosexuality or same-sex attraction is normal or a normal variation of heterosexuality. It just doesn’t stand to reason that it would be normal despite evidence in the animal kingdom. There are anomalies in nature too. However, that doesn’t mean it is evil either or caused by Satan, who, as you might know, according to Judaism, is really one of the “good guys,” not a rebel or fallen angel. I also think that for some homosexuals, it may be totally genetic or mainly genetic, whereas for others it may be a mix of genetics and environment, and for still others, mainly environmental. For me, however, this has no bearing on how one should behave toward gay people and no bearing on the present issue of admitting gay boys to the BSA. I don’t equate homosexuality’s being abnormal or environmentally caused (in some instances) to its being immoral.
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But isn’t Satan in Judaism primarily involved with the sexual urges?
 
buffalo said:
The Boy Scouts had a moral compass pointing in the direction of truth. Now it is pointing away from truth and towards political correctness. It is not that far from lies.
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I was looking through the catalog of the “Boy Scout Store” (not affiliated with BSA … more of a novelty shop) and they have a new merit badge … the Disorienteering Merit Badge … which I’m sure will see brisk sales … along with the “Lumberjack Patrol” patch. So if you run across any lost kids in the woods singing “I’m a lumberjack and I’m OK” … well, they’re not just Canadian scouts any more. 😃
 
Robert_Sock said:
But isn’t Satan in Judaism primarily involved with the sexual urges?
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No, the sexual urges are normal (for the most part), healthy, and G-d-given. Orthodox Jewish men say a blessing before having sex and sex is encouraged on the Sabbath and on Rosh Hashanah. There is nothing satanic about sexuality in Judaism or in Catholicism. It’s the practice and abuse of sexuality outside of marriage that gets us in trouble. Same idea with our other urges: eating, for example.
 
meltzerboy said:
No, the sexual urges are normal, healthy, and G-d-given. There is nothing satanic about sexuality in Judaism or in Catholicism. It’s the practice and abuse of sexuality outside of marriage that gets us in trouble. Same idea with our other urges: eating, for example.
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In Catholicism, any desire for sex that is not in accord with God’s design for marriage is considered disordered. It is concupiscence that is a disorder of our fallen nature. It is not satanic in that sense, but it sure has the potential to be exacerbated by satanic forces if we act on those impulses even a little.
 
ringil said:
I am a licensed therapist with a graduate degree in Social Work, a state license to practice as an independent therapist, and have years of experience working with the mentally ill; I diagnose individuals as part of my practice and I assure you that
I have worked with hundreds of individuals struggling with any mental disorder you can name- well except Dissociative Identity Disorder- never met one of those.

Where did you gain your knowledge of the mental health field? What is your education? What is your experience working with the mentally ill? Have you or do you provide diagnoses as part of you work?
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“homosexuality” is not a recognized mental disorder.
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by those that accept the poppycock propaganda of the APA and fail to acknowledge that the DSM was a change by vote, leaving those that voted to leave the DSM as is or was…as dissenters…

Dissenters and others would include NARTH, former members of the APA, William Glasser MD, there was a Psychiatrist recently on NPR trashing the DSM V and I of course think that the DSM is bunk…
 
wynnejj said:
To those who have good motivations for wanting this change, it is to correct abuse by scout leaders and local councils that expel an immature boy who unwisely discloses his sexual orientation among friends from being drummed out of a wholesome environment that might help the boy where society (and maybe his immediate family) is failing him.
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If this is the case, then it furthers the truism that extreme cases make for bad policy. Instead of dealing with the one situation and rectifying that, a policy is now in place that will create more difficult situations.
 
ringil said:
Your knowledge of the field seems quite scant and your experience in the field non-existent.

You do your “research” from surfing the net. That’s pretty sad. .
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My research is adequate and Ed is correct.😃
 
ringil said:
Homosexuality is not a mental disorder. That’s the source.

A bird is not a rock.

It is not a diagnosable mental disorder.
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This is only true for those that voted for the DSM change and those that swallow the poppycock propaganda of those that continually try to normalize homosexuality. These organizations cannot normalize something in a DSM book because they say so. Ignore the book, it is bunk…it is a disorder if I say so and deny the DSM. No physician has an obligation to adhere to the DSM, only if you are getting reimbursed for insurance based on your client population. If that is the case then you must adhere to the book of bunk.
 
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