BREAKING: Pope Francis gives local bishops more responsibility for Mass translations

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Actually, “Veterum Sapientia”—which the pope signed on the very altar of St Peter’s–quite rare indeed—is probably the most violated papal edict of the modern era.
 
However, the Our Father is quite faithful to the Latin original, which in turn is faithful to the Greek and Aramaic. The translations are almost universal, except for “which” instead of “who” or “debt/debtor” in place of “trespass/trespasses” and a few minor variants which never fall in the realm of equivalence, like the old Missal did.
 
On the topic of mortal sin!!! Mortal sin is a tricky thing, but I recommend St Thomas Aquinas because we gotta get into the intent, reality, motivation, and familiarity of our own catechesis. I doubt good mothers who accidentally served meat on a Friday are in mortal sin.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
This is not heresy as you seem to think and the Church has not taken a step backwards by using the vernacular. If anything, she’s reaching more people of the world than in the past.
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I never claimed it was heresy but John XXIII’s Veterum Sapientia clearly stated that
"Thus the “knowledge and use of this language,” so intimately bound up with the Church’s life, “is important not so much on cultural or literary grounds, as for religious reasons.”6 These are the words of Our Predecessor Pius XI, who conducted a scientific inquiry into this whole subject, and indicated three qualities of the Latin language which harmonize to a remarkable degree with the Church’s nature. “For the Church, precisely because it embraces all nations and is destined to endure to the end of time … of its very nature requires a language which is universal, immutable, and non-vernacular.”
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That’s two Popes who were saying this.
 
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Well, obviously, I agree with Pope Francis and I accept Vatican II as inspired by the Holy Spirit.

This goes against the grain of many in this forum so I might as well unsubscribe here.

Nothing spiritually conducive in continuing.

God Bless
Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Well, obviously, I agree with Pope Francis and I accept Vatican II as inspired by the Holy Spirit.
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Then you should also agree with Paul VI’s directive to keep certain parts in Latin, such as those outlined in Jubilate Deo.

I like the fact that certain parts of the Mass stay immutable, makes things easier for musicians who don’t like their music obsoleted by newer translations. 🙂
 
It’s better for the organists, too, so we don’t have to change up every month.
 
LoyalViews said:
It’s better for the organists, too, so we don’t have to change up every month.
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Why? Have you got something against hiphop.

My priest raps at every mass and has back up singers.

When the mass ends he says our culture must move with the times.

Just kidding
 
I hereby admit that I haven’t read all the posts so this point may have been made already: perhaps those of us who are English speakers should not think of this change in law to be directed at us, primarily, and so expect another revision to our translation.

Consider, instead, those many languages which are spoken by millions of people in the world but by no one working at the CDWDS. I think, much like the Pope’s 2 year-old changes to the marital nullity process, these changes are mostly meant to be for the benefit of the “third world.”

Dan
(formerly dans0622)
 
Vadne said:
They are indeed the vernacular. Hieratic language does not exist only in Latin. Ask any Anglican.
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Not my vernacular, and I am a polyglot and an intellectual with an advanced degree. I don’t use words like that in ordinary speech; how much less does a 6th-grader use them.
 
That’s quite possible.

There is a language spoken nowhere but Labrador and the northern parts of Québec. A few decades ago a priest who had lived with the Innu for decades translated the Missal to Innuemun. That’s what’s used, (illicitly, I suppose) by any priest who has a modicum of understanding of the language but I’m pretty sure that nobody at the Vatican speaks or has even heard of this language. There would be no one there who would be qualified to approve this translation.

Of course, realistically speaking, I doubt very much that there is anyone at the CCCB qualified to approve it either.
 
The context is quite clear.

Heresy is a harsh term. I think that Vatican II’s intentions were very good and people took it too far. Women not wearing veils in church, for example, is not apart of Vatican II. However, people like to lump that together with Vatican II, as if it was Vatican II calling for women to remove their head coverings.

I’m not a fan of the term “rigid”. It implies that “Traditional” Catholics are unloving, cold, heartless. This is simply not true. The Church before Vatican II understood that to love someone we must show them the right way. Oftentimes we forget that Jesus is as just as he is merciful and that we should always fear God. Jesus is like a book; on one page is mercy and the other is justice. Going to a Protestant church and actively participating would imply that one agrees with the faith. It also causes scandal. We should despise heresy and try to correct people because that is the loving thing to do.

I question why Pope Francis would aim to make it possible for Lutherans to have communion. Or why he has such a distaste for the Latin mass. But I will not speak badly about Pope Francis because that is not a Catholic thing to do.
 
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misstherese said:
Heresy is a harsh term. I think that Vatican II’s intentions were very good and people took it too far. Women not wearing veils in church, for example, is not apart of Vatican II. However, people like to lump that together with Vatican II, as if it was Vatican II calling for women to remove their head coverings.
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Some things are necessary and somethings are not. To think that all of Catholic culture is synonymous with Catholic Dogma is a mistake and it is to misunderstand.
 
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Head covering to me is also a Catholic tradition similar to Latin in the mass, but that’s just my opinion. There are several Bible verses mentioning women covering their heads while worshipping and had been kept as a tradition up until the 20th century. Even Mary covered her face while speaking to men as a means to humble herself. Though it isn’t necessary, I believe it to be a good way to humble oneself.
 
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Liturgy does not demand words of a sixth grader. Hieratic language has been the norm in liturgy for centuries. The Latin texts of the Novus Ordo don’t exclusively display words of “ordinary speech,” let alone only sixth grade words.

Further, the 1974 Sacramentary didn’t just screw up translations. It also deliberately left out concepts the translators found unappealing. Usually involving sin and sacrifice.
 
Yes, I know. That’s not what I met. I meant simply I don’t understand why they are choosing another nation’s Spanish translation when they could be using the Spanish missle of other US Citizens.
 
DaveBj said:
My comment at the time was that words like “consubstantial” and “chalice” might be English, but they are not the vernacular (i.e., what the common people use).
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I’ll grant you that “consubstantial” might not be vernacular but “chalice”? Really?!? English is my second language and chalice is the word I use and have used for the last 55 years.
 
Further, the 1974 Sacramentary didn’t just screw up translations. It also deliberately left out concepts the translators found unappealing. Usually involving sin and sacrifice.
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Fair enough point, but that still doesn’t explain how we arrive at using words like prevenient, consubstantial, gibbet, etc. that are meaningless to many people. One could revise the prayers with proper emphasis and not throw in “SAT prep” words.
 
Does Puerto Rico have its own translation? Does “Caribbean Spanish” differ from “Latin American Spanish”? I honestly don’t know the answer but am wondering…
 
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