Breaking: Wisconsin Supreme Court reinstates Walker’s collective bargaining law

[bbarrick8383]

The anti-union bias on display here is a terrible shame, especially given what the Church, in her infallible teaching, says about workers’ rights and the importance of unions as vehicles for maintaining those rights.

Translation:

It’s a terrible shame that people do not agree with my view of unbridled union power. Everyone should be forced into unions, in every job and in every state and those unions should push the companies/governments around and I cant believe people disagree with me.

That about sum it up?

 

[rlg94086]

My wife, a teacher in the NYC “government” school system, was a member of the union and her only product was the hundreds of educated children she taught who went on to productive lives thanks to her personally and others like her.

Call her useless if you will. I and hundreds of families disagree.

Btw, since your wife was a teacher in NYC, make sure she’s with you when you watch Waiting for Superman. The plight of students in NYC is highlighted through a couple of kids and their hope to win the lottery required to get into a well-run school. The founders of those schools, great teachers themselves, successfully fought against the union mentality.

 

[gnjsdad]

Just because the church supports the right of workers organize does not mean we have to support unions in all their endeavors.

I never said that we are obliged to support EVERY action unions may take.

Insofar as a union tries to ensure a just wage for its members, we are obliged to support it. We cannot, in good conscience, support the idea of taking away collective bargaining rights. Such steps impede the union’s ability to function as a union.

Now, if a union’s demands are excessive to the point where the common good is adversely affected, or if it is corrupt, then yes, you are correct. Clearly, the public sector unions in Wisconsin have shown they are willing to compromise on wages and benefits with the governor, but this governor obviously doesn’t want compromise.

 

[estesbob]

I never said that we are obliged to support EVERY action unions may take.

Insofar as a union tries to ensure a just wage for its members, we are obliged to support it. We cannot, in good conscience, support the idea of taking away collective bargaining rights. Such steps impede the union’s ability to function as a union.

Now, if a union’s demands are excessive to the point where the common good is adversely affected, or if it is corrupt, then yes, you are correct. Clearly, the public sector unions in Wisconsin have shown they are willing to compromise on wages and benefits with the governor, but this governor obviously doesn’t want compromise.

You seem to be accusing those of us who support the Wisconsin law as being anti-union. I am sure we can all agree that the Church has no stance on whether public employee unions should have the right to bargain for benefits.

As far as the Gov. not wanting to compromise the truth is he did. He could have eliminated all collective-bargaining rights but did not. What he has done is put Wisconsin public sector unions under the exact same conditions that apply to federal public sector unions.

 

[Swiss_Guy]

:thumbsup::clapping::yup::tiphat:

My grandpa (a former teacher) was happy that this happened. In all honesty, teachers get too many benefits. Don’t get me wrong though, I’m not opposed to unions, just that they get way more benefits than every other worker there is (or so it seems).

 

[gnjsdad]

It’s a terrible shame that people do not agree with my view of unbridled union power.

Everything I’ve posted about unions is based on Church teaching, and my observation that in America today, unions are under assault.

The decline of unions, both private sector and public, goes hand in hand with the decline in the middle class.

 

[estesbob]

Everything I’ve posted about unions is based on Church teaching, and my observation that in America today, unions are under assault.

The decline of unions, both private sector and public, goes hand in hand with the decline in the middle class.

But you have posted absolutely nothing indicating that the church opposes the Wisconsin law or that as Catholics we are required to oppose the Wisconsin law.

 

[rlg94086]

But you have posted absolutely nothing indicating that the church opposes the Wisconsin law or that as Catholics we are required to oppose the Wisconsin law.

…or that correlation = causation…

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

Btw, since your wife was a teacher in NYC, make sure she’s with you when you watch Waiting for Superman. The plight of students in NYC is highlighted through a couple of kids and their hope to win the lottery required to get into a well-run school. The founders of those schools, great teachers themselves, successfully fought against the union mentality.

And, all the other kids, like those taught by my wife got squat, eh? I guess there’s nothing more evil than a teacher who belongs to a union than the union he or she belongs to.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

Everything I’ve posted about unions is based on Church teaching, and my observation that in America today, unions are under assault.

The decline of unions, both private sector and public, goes hand in hand with the decline in the middle class.

I think unions, both private and public are responsible for the decline of the middle class.

 

[manualman]

We’re wandering about here as far as topic. The OP is about a court case. Regardless of your side, I think EVERYONE should be relieved that the WI SC departed from the norm in recent years and refrained from an opportunity to usurp power that doesn’t belong to them. Regardless of whether Walker’s ideas are good or not, law is made by the legislative branch and silly loopholes shouldn’t be used to get one’s way. Union supporters ought to simply campaign for candidates friendly to their views and seek to overturn the legislation legitimately, not through legal trickery (or having their legislators hide in other states for that matter. Can you imagine if THAT became the norm?).

On the other topic of union busting, I am conflicted. Nobody from my grandfathers on back ever had a college education and never had anything but manual labor and its associated wages to support their families. I do believe it was the unions who raised the standard of living to where they could make enough to thrive, not just survive. In industrial economics, unions serve to give a power to the workers that balances against the power wielded by the owners that tends to result in a good deal for both sides. But in the public sector, unionization creates a situation where the union looks out exclusively for the worker’s benefit, the politician looks out exclusively for his own benefit (sometimes loosely associated with the taxpayer’s benefit), and NOBODY is directly looking after the interest of the taxpayer. This is ESPECIALLY the case when the unions are big political supporters of the politicians with whom they negotiate for contracts. I can’t see how this could be a healthy relationship. Public service unions should have no collective bargaining powers. The unions should have to appeal directly to the public for a fair deal in employment. Yes, this is a much tougher sell than the current situation where you simply make big campaign contributions and endorsements with strings attached. But the current practice leaves NOBODY primarily interested in the taxpayer wellbeing. That can’t go on.

 

[rlg94086]

And, all the other kids, like those taught by my wife got squat, eh? I guess there’s nothing more evil than a teacher who belongs to a union than the union he or she belongs to.

You are babbling. I’ve said nothing anti-teacher. Good and great teachers’ efforts are hampered by the unions. I don’t know where your wife taught in NYC…maybe she taught the ~30% of 8th graders in NY who test as proficient in math and English. Maybe she didn’t teach at a “dropout factory.”

You can cheer the teachers’ unions all you want and even play the my wife is a teacher and obviously you don’t like teachers victim, if you prefer. None of it has any bearing on the reality of the effect teachers’ unions have had on perpetuating our failing school system.

 

[Rich_Olszewski]

You can cheer the teachers’ unions all you want and even play the my wife is a teacher and obviously you don’t like teachers victim, if you prefer. None of it has any bearing on the reality of the effect teachers’ unions have had on perpetuating our failing school system.

Of course, none of what I say means anything.

And, I’ll return the favor by saying that you can condemn the unions all you want and I’ll reject your arguments across the board.

 

[rlg94086]

Of course, nothing I say means anything.

And, I’ll return the favor by saying that you can condemn the unions all you want and I’ll reject your arguments across the board.

Then, you need to educate yourself on the problem, rather than just reject arguments. Do me a favor and watch the documentary I recommended. Don’t worry - it’s non-partisan. It won’t require you to abandon your liberal ideals. It will just inform you.

What you say would mean more, if you actually posted some substance to back up your victim-based whining and platitudes.

 

[SamH]

What you say would mean more, if you actually posted some substance to back up your victim-based whining and platitudes.

Well, he is a union supporter.

The stats at the end of Waiting for Superman are quite telling. I was struck by the national average cost of removing a tenured teacher and how hard it is to remove a lousy teacher - even when the proof of their incompetence is indisputable.

 

[estesbob]

Well, he is a union supporter.

The stats at the end of Waiting for Superman are quite telling. I was struck by the national average cost of removing a tenured teacher and how hard it is to remove a lousy teacher - even when the proof of their incompetence is indisputable.

newyorker.com/reporting/2009/08/31/090831fa_fact_brill

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

Well, he is a union supporter.

The stats at the end of Waiting for Superman are quite telling. I was struck by the national average cost of removing a tenured teacher and how hard it is to remove a lousy teacher - even when the proof of their incompetence is indisputable.

I was sickened by the part that the worst of the worst arent fired in NY… they go and sit all day collecting full pay.

All while those poor kids hang their hopes on a lottery to get them out of failing schools.

 

[SamH]

I was sickened by the part that the worst of the worst arent fired in NY… they go and sit all day collecting full pay.

All while those poor kids hang their hopes on a lottery to get them out of failing schools.

They did ask one extremely good question that should have been asked years ago.

You always hear that failing schools are the product of their failing neighborhoods. For once they asked are the failing neighborhoods the product of their failed school system.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

The anti-union bias on display here is a terrible shame, especially given what the Church, in her infallible teaching, says about workers’ rights and the importance of unions as vehicles for maintaining those rights.

The Church teaches about the right of employees to organize and collectively bargain, but says NOTHING about having to facilitate this through corrupt unions that funnel union dues to politically support candidates that have as their platform, the murder of unborn children.

(ding ding, I win. Dissed the unions AND brought abortion into the debate in one sentence)

Even AFL-CIO Richard Trumppka is on record admitting that the unions are no longer about worker rights, benefits, wages, etc… they are about pushing a progressive neo-marxist agenda.
youtube.com/watch?v=I097Y2uxoFc

 

[mary_bobo]

Well, he is a union supporter.

The stats at the end of Waiting for Superman are quite telling. I was struck by the national average cost of removing a tenured teacher and how hard it is to remove a lousy teacher - even when the proof of their incompetence is indisputable.

In most businesses, after warnings, and you can’t or won’t do the job, you are outa’ there.