Breaking: Wisconsin Supreme Court reinstates Walker’s collective bargaining law

[mary_bobo]

Of course, none of what I say means anything.

And, I’ll return the favor by saying that you can condemn the unions all you want and I’ll reject your arguments across the board.

Your argument would be better served, IMO, if our schools were not rated as low as they are internationally. And we spend more and more money each year and no improvement is seen. That’s as much like throwing money down a dark hole as my dog show hobby is.

 

[estesbob]

In most businesses, after warnings, and you can’t or won’t do the job, you are outa’ there.

In my company there are some violations they get you canned without a warning.

 

[gnjsdad]

The Church teaches about the right of employees to organize and collectively bargain, but says NOTHING about having to facilitate this through corrupt unions that funnel union dues to politically support candidates that have as their platform, the murder of unborn children.

I agree with this.

Nevertheless, the existence of corruption within any human institution (even the Church!) means the corruption in the institution needs to be curtailed; not that the institution needs to be neutered because there is corruption within it.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Everything I’ve posted about unions is based on Church teaching, and my observation that in America today, unions are under assault.

This is why the Catholic parochial and secondary school teachers all belong to unions, right?

 

[estesbob]

This is why the Catholic parochial and secondary school teachers all belong to unions, right?

As well as the Swiss guards, and the administrative staff at every diocese

 

[SamH]

In most businesses, after warnings, and you can’t or won’t do the job, you are outa’ there.

But not a teacher.

Our rural high school was stuck with a lousy English teacher that stayed for over 20 years and it wasn’t just a local issue. When my college English professor learned where I went to high school she asked if the teacher was gone or if I had private tutoring because I wasn’t making the same mistakes that previous students from my school had made. Sad to say it was just the efforts of my high school educated mother that made the difference.

 

[SamH]

This is why the Catholic parochial and secondary school teachers all belong to unions, right?

Does anyone know if there is a single unionized parochial school in the US?

 

[rlg94086]

They did ask one extremely good question that should have been asked years ago.

You always hear that failing schools are the product of their failing neighborhoods. For once they asked are the failing neighborhoods the product of their failed school system.

 

[rlg94086]

Well, he is a union supporter.

The stats at the end of Waiting for Superman are quite telling. I was struck by the national average cost of removing a tenured teacher and how hard it is to remove a lousy teacher - even when the proof of their incompetence is indisputable.

Yep…one of the interesting statistics was from Illinois:

876 School Districts
Only 61 have ever attempted to fire a tenured teacher
38 of those were successful

Comparing that to other professions:
1 in 57 doctors lose their medical licenses
1 in 97 lawyers lose their law licenses
1 in 2500 teachers lose their teaching credentials

S. Reeder. “The Hidden Costs of Tenure,” Small Newspaper Group 2005

 

[Borealis]

My wife, a teacher in the NYC “government” school system, was a member of the union and her only product was the hundreds of educated children she taught who went on to productive lives thanks to her personally and others like her.

Call her useless if you will. I and hundreds of families disagree.

Look at the statistics about public school education. If your wife is one of the good teachers (I don’t know her, and I have no opinion on her teaching abilities), then she is in the minority. And using New York City as an example of good education is particularly ironic. There are more school administrators (as in, non-teachers) in New York City than in all of Europe. Please demonstrate how they provide any value whatsoever.

The events in Wisconsin demonstrated that the unions themselves have absolutely no interest in anything except increasing their power. The effects on common citizens are irrelevant to them.

Compared to what private schools accomplish, public schools are a joke. For that matter, compared to what homeschoolers accomplish, public schools are still a joke. And yes, I have personal experience with all three.

 

[Borealis]

Your wife is a public school teacher but you home schooled your own children?

Ooh, I missed that one. Not that it’s surprising; ‘not for me but for thee’ is a common refrain among education union supporters. I don’t know the numbers, but I’m sure that a lot of unionized teachers send their children to private schools or homeschool. Of course, thanks to the ever-increasing demand for education funding, they’re rapidly becoming the select few who can afford to do so.

 

[andyandely1997]

Public unions have a conflict of interest. The unions use their money to get Democrats elected to office, and those Democrats who get elected, will be the ones bargaining with the unions. Is it a coincidence most big union cities/states are run by Democrats? Even President Franklin Roosevelt was against public unions, and it was not until President Kennedy, with an executive order, who paved the way for public unions. There is nothing wrong with private unions, but public unions, who bargain with our tax money, do not have the automatic right to form a union. It is up to the people who elect our public officials.

Also, as someone stated earlier in a post, the NLRB, who is fighting Boeing with the move of a plant to South Carolina, is way out of bounds. It is up to the private company where they want to do business, not the federal government. Just as companies can get to greedy, the same thing can happen to unions. And you can see the current results in the North, while at the same time, seeing companies such as Nissan, Toyota, BMW, etc. building plants in right to work states. The employess in right to work states are getting justly compensated, while at the same time keeping their jobs.

 

[gamewell45]

The courts have spoken and unless its pursued to a higher court level, theres not much more to be said.

The most prudent thing would be to work to change the laws legally so governments (Fed, State & Local) cannot unilaterally remove collective bargaining from the public sector.

 

[Stjudeprayforus]

The courts have spoken and unless its pursued to a higher court level, theres not much more to be said.

The most prudent thing would be to work to change the laws legally so governments (Fed, State & Local) cannot unilaterally remove collective bargaining from the public sector.

Ha… good luck with that.

Once Indiana made public unions an option to join or not… NOBODY joined it. Its dead.
Then once the taxpayers saw the huge improvement in services… BMV that once was an all day nightmare event… to now, after merit pay its 8 minute wait time…the voters overwhelming re elected our Governor.

Wait til Wisconsin sees how much better off they will be with out it.

 

[meltzerboy]

In all cases? Have you seen Waiting for Superman? If not, please watch it and let us all know if you think the teachers’ unions are in the right when they oppose reform of our failing schools.

I don’t oppose unions completely, but in some cases they are hurting our economy and our country.

Evidently, you’re not a teacher and therefore have little idea about how teachers’ unions fight for the benefit of not only teachers, but also students. We as a society would be much poorer, in every sense, without unions fighting for the equal rights of all.

 

[meltzerboy]

Does anyone know if there is a single unionized parochial school in the US?

Probably not, and that’s why parochial school teachers are the lowest paid in the nation. But of course teachers are supposed to be dedicated; they really shouldn’t receive any salary and not worry about inordinate class size (not a problem in most private schools) or other adverse working conditions which affect them and their students. And in private schools there is also the additional worry of being fired at the whim of the headmaster/headmistress without due process, because there is no union. Just as they were hired, not necessarily based on educational credentials and experience.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Ooh, I missed that one. Not that it’s surprising; ‘not for me but for thee’ is a common refrain among education union supporters. I don’t know the numbers, but I’m sure that a lot of unionized teachers send their children to private schools or homeschool. Of course, thanks to the ever-increasing demand for education funding, they’re rapidly becoming the select few who can afford to do so.

I know three public school teachers that are part of my Cub Scout pack, and all of them send their kids to the Catholic school at our Church.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Probably not, and that’s why parochial school teachers are the lowest paid in the nation. But of course teachers are supposed to be dedicated; they really shouldn’t receive any salary and not worry about inordinate class size (not a problem in most private schools) or other adverse working conditions which affect them and their students. And in private schools there is also the additional worry of being fired at the whim of the headmaster/headmistress without due process, because there is no union. Just as they were hired, not necessarily based on educational credentials and experience.

Yes, and with all of that going against them, they still manage to get their students to outperform public school kids.

 

[ExLibris]

Different day, same old nonsense.

If the wonderful and selfless unions had never been created, we would have all been living in a constant Hell being exploited day in and day out. Ridiculous.

Catholic historian Thomas E. Woods, Jr. has an interesting article on LewRockwell.com.

lewrockwell.com/woods/woods135.html

This idea, that workers without unions will inherently have a disadvantage in bargaining power relative to employers, is the basis for most individuals’ support of unionism and is picked up again in the Wagner Act. But that disadvantage is a hoary myth. A worker’s bargaining power depends on the worker’s alternatives. If a worker either works for Employer A or does not work (i.e., if Employer A is a monopsonist), the worker has little bargaining power. If the worker has several employment alternatives, he has strong bargaining power. There may have been instances of monopsony or oligopsony in the 19th century, but…they were short-lived. Monopsony has not been a significant factor in the American labor market since the introduction and widespread use of the automobile.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Different day, same old nonsense.

If the wonderful and selfless unions had never been created, we would have all been living in a constant Hell being exploited day in and day out. Ridiculous.

Catholic historian Thomas E. Woods, Jr. has an interesting article on LewRockwell.com.

lewrockwell.com/woods/woods135.html

Ewwwwww, Lew Rockwell!!! They are just a bunch of kooky libertarians over there. They actually think Ron Paul would be a good President! INsane! Everyone knows that Ron Paul is too old, and too much of an isolationist to be a good president. He should jsut go back to Texas and wait for death to take him.

[/sarcasm]