Bring guns to church?

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robertericleech said:
Canada is like a nice quiet married couple who live upstairs from a strip club. 😃
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Ooooh. That was good. In a bad way. Or bad in a good way?
captainrick said:
Too bad the murderer didn’t agree, he wouldn’t have gone into the church and slaughtered those innocent defenseless people.
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Amen brother. If the dude was racist, why didn’t he go into the ghetto? Chicken shhhiuumm, scratch. We need to pray for healing for the perp as much as we may humanly dislike it.
 
Bradski said:
If you had a gun for sale, I assume that you wouldn’t sell it to someone whom you knew had a history of violence or to someone whom you knew was mentally unstable or to someone who was dealing and using crack cocaine (I’m pretty certain that there are a lot of people who want guns that would fulfill all three criteria).

If that is the case, and I very sincerely hope that it is, you would be exercising gun control. Could you explain how not selling your gun to a violent, mentally unstable drug dealer makes matters worse?
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Thing is I wouldn’t sell my guns. But to answer your question. It is true I would not sell a gun to someone that has a history of that kind of stuff. While in principle it is gun control it isn’t the same as forced control by a government. In the situation you mentioned I have the freedom and responsibility to make a choice to prevent evil. However a government control of guns could take guns out of the hands of someone with good intentions and take away freedom. Besides mentally unstable people can be dangerous with anything and if they wanted guns they’ll get one some way or another. I’ve been to Angola prison and some prisoners made gun out of things you can’t imagine. Gun control only controls law abiding citizens who don’t misuse guns in the first place. I can put the question back to you and say would you sell to a person who is getting robbed constantly and his house broken into? Would not his safety matter. Or a person who gets his food from the land would you allow him to starve by not giving him a gun. Very hypothetical I know but so was your situation.
 
Also it’s not the gun that’s the issue its the person. A gun is useless without the person. I would advise and take care of the person. The person needs to change his life to turn from sin. If he’s mentall unstable then I would bring him to a doctor.
 
Hans_W said:
… and to anybody outside the US, at least in any civilised country.
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It sounds crazy to me too and I was born in this country.

I would actively avoid a place of worship that encouraged firearms (as opposed to simply upholding the law concerning them).

To me, instruments of death have NO place where we worship our LORD. People who carry them as part of their duties excepted.

ICXC NIKA
 
In my humble opinion - guns are objects specifically designed to kill. That’s an objective fact. And such thing have no place in a house of God.
 
Bayoubeefmaster said:
Thing is I wouldn’t sell my guns. But to answer your question. It is true I would not sell a gun to someone that has a history of that kind of stuff. While in principle it is gun control it isn’t the same as forced control by a government. In the situation you mentioned I have the freedom and responsibility to make a choice to prevent evil. However a government control of guns could take guns out of the hands of someone with good intentions and take away freedom. Besides mentally unstable people can be dangerous with anything and if they wanted guns they’ll get one some way or another. I’ve been to Angola prison and some prisoners made gun out of things you can’t imagine. Gun control only controls law abiding citizens who don’t misuse guns in the first place. I can put the question back to you and say would you sell to a person who is getting robbed constantly and his house broken into? Would not his safety matter. Or a person who gets his food from the land would you allow him to starve by not giving him a gun. Very hypothetical I know but so was your situation.
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Making a gun is not all that hard if you have tools, metal tubing and IF you don’t mind possibly blowing your hands off when you try to fire!

Still, how would those prisoners get ammunition???

ICXC NIKA
 
captainrick said:
Too bad the murderer didn’t agree, he wouldn’t have gone into the church and slaughtered those innocent defenseless people.
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you make my point. We need to move for more bans on weapons in the US.
 
GEddie said:
Making a gun is not all that hard if you have tools, metal tubing and IF you don’t mind possibly blowing your hands off when you try to fire!

Still, how would those prisoners get ammunition???

ICXC NIKA
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Some used rocks found in the fields they had to work but really they took anything they could shove down the barrel. Humans can do incredible things when they want to.
 
Bayoubeefmaster said:
Gun control only controls law abiding citizens who don’t misuse guns in the first place.
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This simply isn’t true. Restricting the uses and quantities of firearms in the community and addressing illegal use with tough sentencing, changes the whole dynamic on a large scale.

The last serious gun episode in the Australian climate was the radical Muslim, Man Monis, attempting an act of terror in a Sydney cafe. He was only able to get hands on a sawn off shotgun since guns are very limited in our society. He got one shot off and killed the cafe manager and that was it. (Another woman died but as a result of a ricochet from a police bullet) It makes a huge difference to the idiots outcome. He was no hero to anyone with his sawn off shotgun. There isn’t much charisma around such a weapon as there is around handguns and assault rifles with huge magazine capacities.

Gun control does not result in limits to freedom bearing in mind that freedom doesn’t come from owning a piece of purpose made metal. Freedom comes from the feeling of security one feels in life. The gun is a false idol in this regard. Billions of people around the world live in gun controlled societies and experience a much greater degree of safety and security than those in paranoid gun loving societies.

Your premise is a delusion I’m afraid.
 
I cannot imagine prayfully preparing for Mass, putting on some nice cloths, and packing my Rugger into my slacks while getting ready for church. We have an armed cop who does this, so the rest of us don’t have too. I am not making a second amendment statement one way or another, this is just a fact of life in the big city.

What a tragedy for those sweet devoted people in Charleston to have to suffer. The have crime problems there, but who could have imagined this? I have walked past that very church more than once. My family spent summers there when I was growing up.

I will never take a gun to church, but I have always felt a bit more secure having an armed policeman there watching over us. I think that is the way to go. Even in or Lord’s time there were dangers in public, and jails to put such people in. I don’t like guns, but I own one. I just personally would find it difficult to experience the joys of Mass while packing a gun.
 
esieffe said:
I cannot imagine prayfully preparing for Mass, putting on some nice cloths, and packing my Rugger into my slacks while getting ready for church. We have an armed cop who does this, so the rest of us don’t have too.
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This to me is the overwhelmingly sensible solution for a country like the US who is adamant about private gun defense. Post armed guards at vulnerable points like churches, schools and shopping centers. That is what South Africa does to combat the threats presented by a gun rich culture. Constitutionally arming every citizen is not the answer. Who can realistically vouch for the integrity of every citizen. You are in a warlike climate with the volume of guns and it needs wartime solutions.
 
In all seriousness, I believe that with more guns in church, we would be less safe. While we would be better protected against the extremely improbable threat of a mass murderer, I suspect we would be more likely to die either by simple homicide or by accidental firing as might happen, for example, with lax gun safety practices in the presence of small children. Of course, the risk of getting shot in church by a toddler or a jealous lover is low in any case, but I would guess those risks are proportional to the number of guns in the church.
 
Bradski said:
I really cannot begin to explain how absolutely crazy this sounds to an Australian.
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And to a Brit. 🤷 99.9% of Brits never even touch a ‘real-life’ gun at any time in their lives. The armed police at the big British airports still make people stare.

I’m one of the 0.1%, as I learned to shoot handguns at a shooting range for sport when I was a young woman. All those places are now closed down, pretty much.
 
Bayoubeefmaster said:
But to answer your question. It is true I would not sell a gun to someone that has a history of that kind of stuff.
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Enough said. You would exercise gun control yourself and I’m pretty sure you would expect others to do the same. But it seems that if the government would do exactly as you would do yourself, would actually make it illegal to sell guns to violent, mentally unstable drug addicts then you complain about personal freedoms. Hells teeth, there is something seriously wrong there.
Bayoubeefmaster said:
I can put the question back to you and say would you sell to a person who is getting robbed constantly and his house broken into? Would not his safety matter.
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Absolutely not. My son-in-law was a manager of a pub a few years back and he was held up twice at gun point. And on another occasion when he was with my daughter at a 7-11. If a customer at the pub or at the 7-11 had had a gun, then it’s OK Corral time (nothing liker a few beers and some guns for a great night out!).

It was never, ever, at any time whatsoever, in any way, shape or form, discussed as to whether anyone, especially my son-in-law, should have been armed as a means of defence. It is simply an inconceivable scenario.
Bayoubeefmaster said:
Or a person who gets his food from the land would you allow him to starve by not giving him a gun. Very hypothetical I know but so was your situation.
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No problem with farmers having guns. I’d be surprised if any farmer in Australia didn’t have one. We are NOT talking about banning guns but restricting access to those who cannot prove that they will use them responsibly.
 
LongingSoul said:
Post armed guards at vulnerable points like churches, schools and shopping centers.
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I agree with you on this. Americans going to church or to school or shopping deserve some kind of protection against these murderous thugs who are out there killing innocent American people. Instead of sending thousands of troops overseas to hundreds of foreign bases and worrying about Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, and Asian islands, I would be in favor of taking these troops from foreign countries and using them to defend Americans who are being gunned down in their churches and in their schools and in their theaters.
 
I’ve never owned a gun, never touched a gun, and personally, I never want to. But I think I’d rather have law abiding citizens with concealed carry permits in church rather than police officers or armed guards.
 
St Thomas Aquinas, who formulated the moral grounds for self defence, would balk at guns being brought into Church. He didn’t even believe clergy should be allowed to own weapons-although he upheld that right for everyone else.

I believe in responsible gun ownership, but there are limits- i.e you cannot bring a gun itno a courtroom, a school, certain businesses (if the owner doesn’t want them there) and a church would also fall into the same category.
 
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