Bring guns to church?

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Johann_du_Toit said:
I believe in responsible gun ownership, but there are limits- i.e you cannot bring a gun itno a courtroom, a school, certain businesses (if the owner doesn’t want them there) and a church would also fall into the same category.
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How would you enforce this?
 
Wow my last post was completely skipped over. This thread is flying
 
Mary_Estelle said:
The father gave his son the .45 as a present- some present.
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When I first heard this news, I thought it was outrageous.

But this morning I heard that his father* didn’t* buy him a gun. He gave him money for his birthday. Nothing wrong with that. 🤷

The kid bought the gun at a gun shop. As for his felony, apparently he was charged but not convicted, therefore he was legally within his rights to buy it, and the store was legally within its rights to sell it to him.

(for those of you from outside the U.S., convicted felons are not permitted to possess firearms–can’t buy them, can’t have them, can’t use them, etc.)
 
Shaolen said:
So I asked a few people about this. First I spoke with catholic answers live (some of you might have heard it). Jimmy akin stated that theres nothing fundamentally wrong with it and gave examples of the Swiss guard and in the military. But he did state its a matter of prudence and the situation and what its being used for. I spoke with Joe Heschmeyer which many of you might not know but he’s a brilliant catholic seminarian who blogs at shamless popery. He stated his initial reaction was tue same as mine and said this:

“Some churches have rules against guns
and there are stupid things that happen when people bring guns to church
like those guns accidentally going off
I think that we can say all of this, at a minimum.
At the very least, I don’t think that the solution to this is to put more guns in the mix.
If I’m in church, I’ve got a better weapon already, which is prayer.
plus, how much of a better death can you ask for than to get murdered in church?”

I also talked to a Baptist friend of mine who didn’t agree with brining guns to church but mentioned that he just lets those who do conceal and mentioned there are a few people he knows who do. Just thought id update everyone.
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Good points - however, guns do not “accidentally go off.” I’ve tested loaded pistols by dropping them, hitting the “hammer” with a hammer (as part of a police investigation). They just cannot "go off " unless the trigger is pulled.

Anyone carrying should have extensive training in gun safety. Are there any law enforcement officers in your parish? If so, I’ll bet some or most of them are armed on church. Of course you wouldn’t know, because part of carrying a weapon is keeping it well concealed.
 
captainrick said:
Good points - however, guns do not “accidentally go off.” I’ve tested loaded pistols by dropping them, hitting the “hammer” with a hammer (as part of a police investigation). They just cannot "go off " unless the trigger is pulled.

Anyone carrying should have extensive training in gun safety. Are there any law enforcement officers in your parish? If so, I’ll bet some or most of them are armed on church. Of course you wouldn’t know, because part of carrying a weapon is keeping it well concealed.
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Not anymore in Texas, and not in many other states, where open-carry is now legal.

Evidently majorities consider it a Constitutional right to intimidate others.

ICXC NIKA.
 
GEddie said:
Not anymore in Texas, and not in many other states, where open-carry is now legal.

Evidently majorities consider it a Constitutional right to intimidate others.

ICXC NIKA.
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I’m from AZ which has probably the most lax law on that
 
Tomdstone said:
How would you enforce this?
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Most countries (including the US) already prohibit guns in schools and courtrooms.

As for churches, I can only advise prudence-and taking heed of the Bishop’s stance on the issue.
 
I carry a concealed firearm every time I go to Mass. It is entirely legal in Texas to do so.

At my last parish the pastor knew many ushers were armed. He often cited the Constitution and our God given rights.

Modern firearms do not just go off. Keep your booger hook off the bang switch.

Know and live by the 4 rules of firearm safety.

Those of us who carry, even openly, do not do so to intimidate anyone. Stating such also implies that anyone who exercises other rights including free speech and religious freedom do so to intimidate others. If persons are intimidated by the sight of a firearm then they do not understand them. Firearms are merely tools. Does someone carrying a hammer or screwdriver intimidate them?

Licensed firearms carriers in Texas are many times less likely to be convicted of a felony than law enforcement officers. The Texas State Police (DPS) tracks such data. We are much less likely than citizens in general to commit crimes. Most police officers know this, and when encountering licensed carriers, it is no big deal. They treat us with respect as we do them.

We are not the enemy. Evil is the enemy.

If you decide to not arm yourself that is your decision. There is no such thing as “gun violence”. Inanimate objects do not commit violence. Humans do.

Why do politicians and hoplophobes blame people like me very time an evil person kills someone? With the numbers of drunk driving deaths nationwide far outpacing the number of firearms deaths, why isn’t there an outcry to ban alcohol? Oh, wait. We did that once and it worked out so well. Banning firearms will not stop the violence.
 
Eddie_Mac said:
Why do politicians and hoplophobes blame people like me very time an evil person kills someone?
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Because it’s the easiest action they can take (and a plays well to kneejerk voters). Taking a look at what’s gone wrong in our society is much more difficult.
 
Its not illegal and maybe a right. But if I walked into mass with a katana, or nunchuks. I’m sure people would be weirded out wonder where my head was at. Am I focused on what church is for or more concerned with my right to bare arms? Also would it be equally as acceptable for me to have an ar-15 in church?
 
Also id just like to mention in absolutely not at all against the 2nd amendment. I don’t support presidential legislation to ban guns. I just feel like it is a little inappropriate for the average church. Like is anything sacred anymore. Just as I feel free speech is a right and important but just because we can say anything doesnt mean something’s shouldn’t be said everywhere or that all expressions are appropriate everywhere.
 
Also I guess to give some background I know that my brother is the type of person who does things because he can. When he defends gun rights its more of a “I can do whatever I want” rather than a true respect for the freedom. Before he became Baptist he argued with me about why he cant just say whatever he wants in mass or get up and be routy
 
LongingSoul said:
The last serious gun episode in the Australian climate was the radical Muslim, Man Monis, attempting an act of terror in a Sydney cafe. He was only able to get hands on a sawn off shotgun since guns are very limited in our society. He got one shot off and killed the cafe manager and that was it. (Another woman died but as a result of a ricochet from a police bullet) It makes a huge difference to the idiots outcome. He was no hero to anyone with his sawn off shotgun. There isn’t much charisma around such a weapon as there is around handguns and assault rifles with huge magazine capacities.
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For some reason gun control always means limiting gun ownership to the state. Why would anyone want to do that? While crimes like the one in SC are horrible the state kills far more people with its weapons than do private citizens. The episode in Australia is a good example. The cops killed just as many people as the criminal.
 
Bringing a gun to Church? Unthinkable in my opinion, a Church is a Sanctuary of peace and it should be kept as such. If someone brought a gun into the Church I go to I would actually be scared of them.

Simply arming more people with guns is not the answer, we have take away guns from people eliminating the problem or at least making gun crime less of a common occurrence.
 
I’ve only one time in my life been around a person who was openly carrying a handgun on his belt. It was in a grocery store, about a year and a half ago, right around the time there was a big gun control push at the federal level.

Gotta say, it made me feel very uneasy. But that might be because it was the first time. I might have a different feeling if I lived in Texas.

My wife had a classmate in graduate school who carried a gun in his backpack. Gotta say, it made me a little uneasy. It was before we were married. She was pro-gun control at the time, then started talking to him, maybe he could walk her to her car if they were working late, he could give her advice about buying a gun, personal safety, yada yada yada and my reaction was, :ehh:…:dts: I wasn’t about to let him step onto my turf, so to speak. :rolleyes: 😛

I had a friend who carried a ka-bar knife in his backpack. He was a U.S. Marine reservist. I felt safe around him.
 
Catholic_Nation said:
Bringing a gun to Church? Unthinkable in my opinion, a Church is a Sanctuary of peace and it should be kept as such. If someone brought a gun into the Church I go to I would actually be scared of them.

Simply arming more people with guns is not the answer, we have take away guns from people eliminating the problem or at least making gun crime less of a common occurrence.
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Just seen on the news : gunman threatens to shoot people in an African-American south Richmond Virginia church. Guess what? A police officer there held the gunman until backup arrived. Gee, I guess a gun in church just saved some lives! Thank God he had a gun.

Of course the poster who said being murdered in church is a wonderful way to die won’t agree.
 
Antegin said:
Then Jesus said to him, "Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. Matthew

Substitute gun for sword.

So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?” John

Could this not be said of all the martyrs that night?

Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God. Matthew

You became imitators of [Paul, Barnabas] and of the Lord, **for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering **with the joy given by the Holy Spirit. First Thessalonians

I think we should look for the answers in the Gospel, not the political platform of the NRA.
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I doubt Jesus would want to allow the wholesale slaughter of more innocent lives that could very easily be protected and saved by allowing good people to carry guns to stop the shooter from doing just that. Again, the good person doesn’t necessarily have to kill the shooter each time, but if it is warranted to save innocent lives…
 
captainrick said:
Just seen on the news : gunman threatens to shoot people in an African-American south Richmond Virginia church. Guess what? A police officer there held the gunman until backup arrived. Gee, I guess a gun in church just saved some lives! Thank God he had a gun.

Of course the poster who said being murdered in church is a wonderful way to die won’t agree.
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But how did that person get the gun? If guns were not sold as much as they are and were regulated more then perhaps that situation would not have happened in the first place because that person wouldn’t have possessed a gun.

I know that’s hard to accept in America but the opinion in my country is that guns should not be sold as a commercial product and should be held only by the Armed Forces and trained law enforcement.
 
Catholic_Nation said:
But how did that person get the gun? If guns were not sold as much as they are and were regulated more then perhaps that situation would not have happened in the first place because that person wouldn’t have possessed a gun.

I know that’s hard to accept in America but the opinion in my country is that guns should not be sold as a commercial product and should be held only by the Armed Forces and trained law enforcement.
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Possibly - but thugs and gang members can always easily make simple handguns. As long as guns can be easily obtained by the bad guys, I pray that the good guys can protect themselves, and the rest of the innocent people.

Armed soldiers and police are great - I’ve been both a US Army Captain and a municipal police officer. But someday (50 years from now? 140 years? 500 years? 1000?) we may have to once again overthrow an oppressive government. That’s how we became a nation, and why our founders wanted to ensure the right to keep and bear arms in our Constitution.
 
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