Brokeback Mountain - Understanding Propaganda

[StubbleSpark]

Aquarius:

Did you see the movie?

What a remarkable reaction to a post challenging not your views on the movie but on your views of homosexuality! Is the implication then that if I see the movie, I will be “turned” and go back to my gay-rights activist ways? That is some powerful propaganda!

May I suggest that instead of quoting my whole post (which you obviously did not read) you quote only the parts of my post you wish to address. Not that I personally mind your help in spreading the love of my words, but it tends to bog the thread down.

 

[Aquarius]

StubbleSpark:

What a remarkable reaction to a post challenging not your views on the movie but on your views of homosexuality! Is the implication then that if I see the movie, I will be “turned” and go back to my gay-rights activist ways? That is some powerful propaganda!

May I suggest that instead of quoting my whole post (which you obviously did not read) you quote only the parts of my post you wish to address. Not that I personally mind your help in spreading the love of my words, but it tends to bog the thread down.

Did you see the movie?

 

[MikeinSD]

“A message to the trolls highjacking this thread”

Hi Stubble Spark:

Be careful of personal attacks here. You may dislike posters’ opinions. You may despise what posters say. But you cannot personally attack or insult people who post here. We are all supposed to remember the manners our mothers so carefully taught us.

Last I checked, I was not a mythological being who lives under a bridge. I also do not demand that humans pay me a toll to cross my bridge or I will eat them.

in kindness,
Mike

 

[Eileen_T]

Definition:
Propaganda A campaign directed at a targeted audience designed to influence opinions, beliefs and emotions to bring specific alterations in behavior. The presentation might be logical and dispassionate or rhetorical to arouse emotions or prejudices, but the message is always deliberately slanted to lead toward a mindset that benefits the cause.

Leaving aside for now the propaganda movies used to condition the German people to regard the Jews as sub-humans who victimised the poor noble Aryan types, I said:

Graphic pictures portrayed mentally ill and disabled “subhumans” in a series of powerful and popular films, to reinforce the message.

In the popular film “I Accuse”, an attractive woman suffering from multiple sclerosis was gently killed by her loving husband.

This movie, and probably others in a similar vein, paved the way for the acceptance by the German population of the T4 programme.

I am not the first person to label what is happening, as regards homosexuality, in television and movies as propaganda.

 

[Bella3502]

Aquarius:

Overkill? I have the opposite reaction. The only reason I will be seeing the movie is because of all the flames it has caused in the culture war. If one side gets weepy over it, and the other gets all puffed up over it, then I figure it’s time to take a look myself.

It’s the same for me. Whenever the moral uproar hits these threads, I know it’s something that I must see so that I can gauge the over reaction. The last time I listened to the puffed up elite squad, they were moaning over the adultery in “The English Patient”. I didn’t see it and was very disappointed in having to wait till after it won awards. Turns out that it is one of my favorite (long) love stories…

 

[Eileen_T]

In February 1988, some 175 leading activists representing homosexual groups from across the nation held a war conference in Warrenton, Virginia, to map out their movement’s future. Shortly thereafter, activists Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen put into book form the comprehensive public relations plan they had been advocating with their gay-rights peers for several years.Together they wrote "After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the '90s."

The bottom line of Kirk and Madsen’s master plan? “The campaign we outline in this book, though complex, depends centrally upon a program of unabashed propaganda, firmly grounded in long-established principles of psychology and advertising.”

Kirk and Madsen’s “war goal,” explains marketing expert Paul E. Rondeau of Regent University, was to “force acceptance of homosexual culture into the mainstream, to silence opposition, and ultimately to convert American society.” (His words not mine.)

Kirk and Madsen said:

“We mean conversion of the average American’s emotions, mind, and will, through a planned psychological attack, in the form of propaganda fed to the nation via the media. We mean “subverting” the mechanism of prejudice to our own ends - using the very processes that made America hate us to turn their hatred into warm regard - whether they like it or not.”

Going by some of the early posts here

ezra1892:

Brokeback Mountain was a refreshing movie experience.

and

Bella3502:

I liked it too. It is just a love story.

I’d say Kirk and Madsen’s plan is working.

 

[Eileen_T]

Bella3502:

It’s the same for me. Whenever the moral uproar hits these threads, I know it’s something that I must see so that I can gauge the over reaction. The last time I listened to the puffed up elite squad, they were moaning over the adultery in “The English Patient”. I didn’t see it and was very disappointed in having to wait till after it won awards. Turns out that it is one of my favorite (long) love stories…

If you are wanting to discuss the morality of homosexual activity, adultery (or other) you may be on the wrong thread. The topic here is the use/misuse of movies as a propaganda tool. I guess you misunderstood that.

 

[ezra1892]

Eileen T:

In February 1988, some 175 leading activists representing homosexual groups from across the nation held a war conference in Warrenton, Virginia, to map out their movement’s future. Shortly thereafter, activists Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen put into book form the comprehensive public relations plan they had been advocating with their gay-rights peers for several years.Together they wrote "After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the '90s."

The bottom line of Kirk and Madsen’s master plan? “The campaign we outline in this book, though complex, depends centrally upon a program of unabashed propaganda, firmly grounded in long-established principles of psychology and advertising.”

Kirk and Madsen’s “war goal,” explains marketing expert Paul E. Rondeau of Regent University, was to “force acceptance of homosexual culture into the mainstream, to silence opposition, and ultimately to convert American society.” (His words not mine.)

Kirk and Madsen said: Going by some of the early posts here and I’d say Kirk and Madsen’s plan is working.

lol no. im just gay and was pleased to see someone make an amazing and beautiful movie about gay guys in love.

But I do applaud the plan Genius!

 

[MikeinSD]

ezra1892:

lol no. im just gay and was pleased to see someone make an amazing and beautiful movie about gay guys in love.

But I do applaud the plan Genius!

We (the homosexuals of the United States) plotted to release our propaganda a year after the election of President George Bush. Our allies in the media had already sapped Americans’ will in the fight against the evil doers. Discouragement over the Iraqi conflict, coupled with the 8 Oscar nominations of Brokeback Mountain, will crush our conservative enemies in pincher movement. America will be ours!!! Brahahahahahah!

 

[Libero]

If you think the objective right and wrong are mere “social views” which can fall out of fashion, then you are more of a Nazi than you know. Because if morality is subject to the whims of the times, then it is possible for the fads to dictate “Thou shalt covet thy neighbor’s manservant.” and “Thou shalt murder.”

More of a nazi, I suggest you be careful. That is not a very nice accusation to make, further more it downplays the great evil that was Nazism. I cannot take points you make seriously if you wish to brand people Nazis.

Now you are agreeing with us. The fact that Lee is very powerful director trying to “help people educate themselves to ditch conventional stereotypes” is actually a very strong case for the propaganda argument. You even go so far as to say the film is expressly designed for that purpose. Thank you!

There is an important difference between propaganda and education, and one that I suggest you take note of. Education is designed to help people think, broaden their knowledge and perspective, it combats ignorance. Propoganda is desgined to force someone to accept or adhere to your views.

In my first two posts, I put forward several points that (I believe) accurately synthesize history, politics, Chinese and American cultural morays, society, art, film, and meaning. I am still awaiting some sort of logical response either for or against. Not: “Well, I think gay sex is the bee’s knees!”

I don’t think that anyone has come out with statements such as “gay sex is the bees knees” if you require a deep conversation about movie making tactics, then I suggest that you go and find the experts, those more qualified, the lecturers in media and literature etc. Rather than a group of Catholics, who can only really give their (usually biased - one way or the other) viewpoint on the matter.

 

[Aquarius]

Eileen T:

In February 1988, some 175 leading activists representing homosexual groups from across the nation held a war conference in Warrenton, Virginia, to map out their movement’s future. Shortly thereafter, activists Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen put into book form the comprehensive public relations plan they had been advocating with their gay-rights peers for several years.Together they wrote "After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the '90s."

The bottom line of Kirk and Madsen’s master plan? “The campaign we outline in this book, though complex, depends centrally upon a program of unabashed propaganda, firmly grounded in long-established principles of psychology and advertising.”

Kirk and Madsen’s “war goal,” explains marketing expert Paul E. Rondeau of Regent University, was to “force acceptance of homosexual culture into the mainstream, to silence opposition, and ultimately to convert American society.” (His words not mine.)

Kirk and Madsen said: Going by some of the early posts here and I’d say Kirk and Madsen’s plan is working.

Working? It has been a spectacular, smashing success.

 

[Aquarius]

Eileen T:

If you are wanting to discuss the morality of homosexual activity, adultery (or other) you may be on the wrong thread. The topic here is the use/misuse of movies as a propaganda tool. I guess you misunderstood that.

Would the Passion qualify as propoganda under the criteria you offer?

 

[MikeinSD]

Aquarius:

Working? It has been a spectacular, smashing success.

It’s because we get a free toaster oven with each straight person we “convert.”

 

[ezra1892]

MikeinSD:

We (the homosexuals of the United States) plotted to release our propaganda a year after the election of President George Bush. Our allies in the media had already sapped Americans’ will in the fight against the evil doers. Discouragement over the Iraqi conflict, coupled with the 8 Oscar nominations of Brokeback Mountain, will crush our conservative enemies in pincher movement. America will be ours!!! Brahahahahahah!

Oh of course! I’ve contributed over 20 dollars to the Brokeback Movement and much more in promoting this unstoppable movement. Today? A Gay cowboy movie. Tomorrow? Gay Marriage. It all makes sense

 

[Eileen_T]

Aquarius:

Would the Passion qualify as propoganda under the criteria you offer?

I believe it was a factual representation of real historical events, involving real people. Now that movie really was a love story.

 

[goofyjim]

ezra1892:

Oh of course! I’ve contributed over 20 dollars to the Brokeback Movement and much more in promoting this unstoppable movement. Today? A Gay cowboy movie. Tomorrow? Gay Marriage. It all makes sense

In the last election gay marriage was up for a vote in eleven states and they turned it down in all of them, if I’m correct. So where is the support for this?

 

[Aquarius]

Eileen T:

I believe it was a factual representation of real historical events, involving real people. Now that movie really was a love story.

The Passion was full of things that are not in the historical record. Gibson told us it was his personal meditation.

We might also say Brokeback is dealing with things that really happen, real factual things. If love between two men exists as fact, does that mean Brokeback is not propoganda.

Or, might we consider propaganda is what the other side does, while our side is simply presenting the truth?

 

[Libero]

In the last election gay marriage was up for a vote in eleven states and they turned it down in all of them, if I’m correct. So where is the support for this?

I don’t know, the USA is showing resilliance, yet more than two countries have recently revolutionised.

 

[Aquarius]

goofyjim:

In the last election gay marriage was up for a vote in eleven states and they turned it down in all of them, if I’m correct. So where is the support for this?

Spain, Canada, Britain, Netherlands, Massachusetts, Connecticutt, Vermont. In Oregon, 43% voted for gay marriage.

There is also far more support among the younger people than older. An interesting thing about that support is that it does not change as the cohort ages. Demographics are the strongest factor in favor of gay marriage.

 

[goofyjim]

Aquarius:

Spain, Canada, Britain, Netherlands, Massachusetts, Connecticutt, Vermont. In Oregon, 43% voted for gay marriage.

There is also far more support among the younger people than older. An interesting thing about that support is that it does not change as the cohort ages. Demographics are the strongest factor in favor of gay marriage.

Where does this insanity end? Will I be forced to open my doors to a homosexual couple against my will. I don’t think so.