Brokeback Mountain - Understanding Propaganda

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It always bothers me when people say that men can love eachother, they just can’t have sex. Gay men don’t see homosexual love as purely the sexual act.

What the Church objects to is not only the sexual act between homosexuals, but the form of love that exists between them; romantic love.

You may say “it is possible for two men to love each other”, but what is expressly denied is the idea that two men can fall in love. Thats what this movie is about, two men falling in love. Sex is the expression of the love that they share. I think the film was effective in showing that two men can be in love. Call it propaganda, but that love is very real to many people.
 
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goofyjim:
Where does this insanity end? Will I be forced to open my doors to a homosexual couple against my will. I don’t think so.:mad:
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Well, since you are not forced to open your doors to heterosexual couples, I see no reason to fear being forced to open them for gays. However, I suspect they won’t really be knocking on your door.
 
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Gnosis:
It always bothers me when people say that men can love eachother, they just can’t have sex. Gay men don’t see homosexual love as purely the sexual act.

What the Church objects to is not only the sexual act between homosexuals, but the form of love that exists between them; romantic love.

You may say “it is possible for two men to love each other”, but what is expressly denied is the idea that two men can fall in love. Thats what this movie is about, two men falling in love. Sex is the expression of the love that they share. I think the film was effective in showing that two men can be in love. Call it propaganda, but that love is very real to many people.
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I think some people want the real, long term, loving relationships that exist between same sex couples to be kept from common knowledge.

One of the more interesting things we see is that the more gays straight people get to know, the less opposition they have to them, and the more they support gay marriage. Learning the truth first hand does wonders.
 
I think Li was very carefully chosen for Bb. He really suits the gay agenda – a movement based less on logic than on rhetoric. I am reminded of the comic book movie, The Incredible Hulk (which he ran into the ground). What is the source of David Banner’s power? His rage. The Hulk was an excellent opportunity for Li to demonstrate his uncanny ability to use emotions the way painters use colors.

The movie flopped under its own weight (or lack thereof) because the emotional logic of the plot did not resonate with viewers. Looking back, I think the mysterious addition of the completely new and unheard of conflict between Bruce Banner and his father, who he eventually destroys (I guess. It was a dumb movie), should have been a foreshadow that Lee would eventually move over into more boldly expressive homosexual pictures.

Is Li a homosexual? Not that it is entirely pertinent to the point of this thread – which is to discuss whether or not Bb is propaganda. It would be more important to discuss the depth of his conviction concerning the gay movement.

You could point to Li’s marriage as proof, but coming from the East, that says nothing at all. The prevailing attitude in countries like China and Japan is that if one is afflicted with homosexuality, they still have to produce offspring to carry on the family name, hence people are extraordinarily indifferent. A vast majority of Asians respond to the Euro-American gay movement with sentiments like “They have too much free time.”

For Asia, the gay rights movement would have to take on a completely different tone because there are no strong feelings to manipulate.

One way to do that is to appeal to the fact that Asian countries tend to play monkey-see monkey-do with the West and influence attitudes in the West. Though I cannot say that complete capitulation on issues like gay marriage here would automatically clinch similar movements there, with the current spinelessness of legislators in both Asian powerhouses, it is hard to imagine them holding out on their own.

No, we hold the fort here or we lose it all. Fortunately, the backlash has begun in some areas (Canada) because people realize gay-marriage laws accompany fascist laws restricting formerly unfettered rights to freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion (no religion East or West condones homosexuality). People of all walks and nationalities are being arrested for peacefully preaching what was common morality just a year ago.

The message from our “liberal” friends is clear: accept our beliefs or pay the price. This is not hypocrisy in the sense of not practicing what you preach but in the sense of not believing what you preach (which is the real definition of the word).
 
Eileen T:
If you are wanting to discuss the morality of homosexual activity, adultery (or other) you may be on the wrong thread. The topic here is the use/misuse of movies as a propaganda tool. I guess you misunderstood that.
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No, I understand the topic of this thread. It’s pretty simple.
 
Eileen T:
I’d say Kirk and Madsen’s plan is working.
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I think a good question to ask at this point is Why?

I can think of several reasons:

Cowardice of mincing religious leaders who care less about the eternal well-being of their flock and more about kowtowing to the establishment. (Did you know “kowtow” comes from the Chinese word “bow your head”? It has an almost prayerful, idolatrous sense here, doesn’t it?)

The successful playing of gay superstitions like the “gene theory” or “born that way theory” – none of which have any proof. This also flies in the face of the evidence we do have and common sense (if it were genetic, then gays would need to have heterosexual sex in order to pass it on).

The final reason would of course be censorship. Our movement is currently facing virulent resistance at the highest echelons of power in government and media institutions.

One example of this is the fact that nowhere in the media these days are opposing viewpoints concerning homosexuality ever voiced.

Gays are born that way.
Really? Says who? No one!
Shut up and acquiesce.

Gays have a right never to be challenged for their beliefs.
Really? Why don’t I have that right?
Shut up. Move on.

Gays do not have the right to seek treatment.
Really? I have a right to seek treatment for everything from light depression to bi-polar disorder. Why don’t they?
Shut up.

Gays are above the same moral laws concerning masturbation, sodomy, and birth control that breeders must obey.
Really? I’m not. How is they can fight for the “right” to share a pew with me if they are not beholden to the same morality?
Shut up.

Gays can’t go to Hell.
Really? I can!
Great idea. Why don’t you?

Guaranteed you will not find any voices like this anywhere in the media. The gay movement would have us turn the entire society upside down: marriage and family, gender-specific language, schools, clothing, even public restrooms. All this because enough people believe they are born that way? Where’s the proof? Why are they sacrosanct and infallible? They call us the ignorant and superstitious ones.

We should be used to this by now. The American Library Association, an organization so strongly against censorship that it will not even censor child porn has banned the book Grand Illusion because it connects the dots between Planned Parenthood and the continuing goal of eugenicists: weed out the undesirables.

And talk about propaganda, the movie Silent Scream which is a documentary of the ultrasound of an abortion is also censored. Go ahead try to buy it on Amazon. The order comes up mysteriously “not in catalog.” Why is it one the site, then?

The fact of the matter is, gay is safe. Gay is establishment. Gay is prime time snooze fest family fun hour with mom, pop and the kids.

We are the counter-cultural rebels here. We are the ones being censored to the point where we have to rely on the black market to get media. We are the ones driven underground while gays command the highest echelons of government around the West. We are the ones who know why the revolution will not be televised.

Long live the resistance.
 
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goofyjim:
In the last election gay marriage was up for a vote in eleven states and they turned it down in all of them, if I’m correct. So where is the support for this?
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It was sarcasm. Some people in this forum go on freak out mode because of a gay cowboy movie and start saying **** about some sort of master gay plan to futher out “agenda” as if we were some Nazi’s pushing the Final Solution…
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Aquarius:
Spain, Canada, Britain, Netherlands, Massachusetts, Connecticutt, Vermont. In Oregon, 43% voted for gay marriage.

There is also far more support among the younger people than older. An interesting thing about that support is that it does not change as the cohort ages. Demographics are the strongest factor in favor of gay marriage.
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Thats because young people tend to be less ignorant…
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Gnosis:
It always bothers me when people say that men can love eachother, they just can’t have sex. Gay men don’t see homosexual love as purely the sexual act.

What the Church objects to is not only the sexual act between homosexuals, but the form of love that exists between them; romantic love.

You may say “it is possible for two men to love each other”, but what is expressly denied is the idea that two men can fall in love. Thats what this movie is about, two men falling in love. Sex is the expression of the love that they share. I think the film was effective in showing that two men can be in love. Call it propaganda, but that love is very real to many people.
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How can you choose who you fall in love with?
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StubbleSpark:
Gays are born that way.
Really? Says who? No one!
Shut up and acquiesce.

Gays have a right never to be challenged for their beliefs.
Really? Why don’t I have that right?
Shut up. Move on.

Gays do not have the right to seek treatment.
Really? I have a right to seek treatment for everything from light depression to bi-polar disorder. Why don’t they?
Shut up.

Gays are above the same moral laws concerning masturbation, sodomy, and birth control that breeders must obey.
Really? I’m not. How is they can fight for the “right” to share a pew with me if they are not beholden to the same morality?
Shut up.

Gays can’t go to Hell.
Really? I can!
Great idea. Why don’t you?

.
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  1. Some gay people are born gay.
  2. All you do is challenge homosexuals. We don’t even have the right to marry. Talk about going back to discrimination…
  3. Why do you think homosexuality is a disease? Stop being so damn ignorant…
  4. Where the hell does this masturbation, sodomy, and birth contol **** come from?? You have quite an imagination…
  5. And this one I really dont understand…
 
The successful playing of gay superstitions like the “gene theory” or “born that way theory” – none of which have any proof. This also flies in the face of the evidence we do have and common sense (if it were genetic, then gays would need to have heterosexual sex in order to pass it on).
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I am unsure about your authority on this matter, my biology teacher gave devoted a one hour session to this topic, and he did manage to back up the proposed genetic theory, there are numerous medical papers on this matter.

It seemed rather logical to me, however I suppose that you have to not have made your mind up before hand to find something logical.
Long live the resistance.
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Ha. This almost makes people like Fred Phelphs sound admirable. You wont be propossing protesting with “God hates gays” signs at homosexuals funerals next, will you?
 
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Libero:
I am unsure about your authority on this matter, my biology teacher gave devoted a one hour session to this topic, and he did manage to back up the proposed genetic theory, there are numerous medical papers on this matter.

It seemed rather logical to me, however I suppose that you have to not have made your mind up before hand to find something logical.

Ha. This almost makes people like Fred Phelphs sound admirable. You wont be propossing protesting with “God hates gays” signs at homosexuals funerals next, will you?
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Maybe Dueling Superstitions would make a good movie.
 
User suspensions are looming for those users who continue to promote the idea that homosexual relationships are morally equivalent to monogamous, sacramental, heterosexual ones. End of discussion.
 
It seems as if the Water Cooler has lost it’s “jovial nature” 😛
 
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Aquarius:
I think some people want the real, long term, loving relationships that exist between same sex couples to be kept from common knowledge.

One of the more interesting things we see is that the more gays straight people get to know, the less opposition they have to them, and the more they support gay marriage. Learning the truth first hand does wonders.
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The truth is that the number of Homosexuals who live in a long term monagamous relationship is miniscule. In Countries and States that have legalized same sex marriages less than 1% of the homosexual population has taken advantage of it.

The only thing a Catholic needs to know about homosexual behavior is it is a griveous sin and they sin if they paticiapte in it or condone/promote it. The idea that a sin becomes less a sin the more one gets to know about it is ludicrous.
 
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Libero:
It seems as if the Water Cooler has lost it’s “jovial nature” 😛
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I agree-why just a few posts ago a memeber claimed that those who disagree with him must support Rev Phelps and beleive that “God hates Fags”
 
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estesbob:
The truth is that the number of Homosexuals who live in a long term monagamous relationship is miniscule. In Countries and States that have legalized same sex marriages less than 1% of the homosexual population has taken advantage of it.

The only thing a Catholic needs to know about homosexual behavior is it is a griveous sin and they sin if they paticiapte in it or condone/promote it. The idea that a sin becomes less a sin the more one gets to know about it is ludicrous.
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Sorry. No response. The moderator says the topic is off limits.
 
I agree-why just a few posts ago a memeber claimed that those who disagree with him must support Rev Phelps and beleive that “God hates Fags”
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No, in fact that was not what I said, if you have trouble understanding messages, then please ask the author, or make sure to read them a number of times, further, I was myself accused of being Nazi - like earlier in the thread. I suggest that any such attitude from any parcipients (myself included) is forthwith abandoned.

I would also refrain from calling Mr Phelps “Reverned” as he really does not deserve any such title of respect, Mr Phelps lacks understanding of even the most basic teachings of God.
 
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Libero:
No, in fact that was not what I said, if you have trouble understanding messages, then please ask the author, or make sure to read them a number of times, further, I was myself accused of being Nazi - like earlier in the thread. I suggest that any such attitude from any parcipients (myself included) is forthwith abandoned.

I would also refrain from calling Mr Phelps “Reverned” as he really does not deserve any such title of respect, Mr Phelps lacks understanding of even the most basic teachings of God.
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Heres the exchange:

Quote:
Long live the resistance.
Ha. This almost makes people like Fred Phelphs sound admirable. You wont be propossing protesting with “God hates gays” signs at homosexuals funerals next, will you?
Now tell us what is cordial about that??? As far as re-readng your posts to try and figure them out-its bad enough reading them once.
 
Originally Posted by estesbob
The truth is that the number of Homosexuals who live in a long term monagamous relationship is miniscule. In Countries and States that have legalized same sex marriages less than 1% of the homosexual population has taken advantage of it.
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I don’t think its really fair to look at monogamy statistics for gay couples, or whether or not they take the oppertunity to get married in the very few places that it is allowed. Not yet at least.

As a homosexual myself, just in the process of coming out of the closet, I’m finding that my fear of being seen as wierd, depraved, or being insulted and attacked by others for my sexuality is a significant obstacle with the guy that I am seeing right now. I feel that we can only be close behind closed doors, which at this point, is really just my dorm room. I am constantly feeling trapped, and its getting in the way of our growth. You may think homosexuality is accepted, but try to hold hands or express love to your parnter in the middle of a crowded street or restaraunt or campus, and you’ll find that there are still significant obstacles. I imagine it is like this for many couples.

I wonder how many inter-racial marriages lasted during the times when it was not socially accpetable, or even legal? How long did those relationships last? I doubt the rate was high. Similarly, the intense social distate for homosexual relationships certainly has a negative affect on their growth.

The homosexual community, which has become more evident in the last thirty years, has spent a very long time being forged on the very fringes of society, already cast out and despised by most, it is no wonder that we have not formed ourselves into a community that is a nice little parallel of your own. How many gay couples could “wait until marriage before they have sex?” Until the last two or three years, marriage was not a concept to homosexuals. We can’t look at same-sex marriage and judge it so early. Its only legal in a fragment of the world.

Especially in the United States, you can not take these statistics seriously. If I am correct, same-sex marriage is only legal in two states. This means that a homosexual couple will only have their marriage recognized in two states out of the entire country, every time they cross a state border, their marriage becomes invalid. Additionally the idea of the Federal Marriage Amendment Act looms overhead. In Canada, same-sex marriage just became legal nation-wide in June.

The homosexual community is simpley going through so many changes so fast that is impossible to guage the final outcome in regards to monogamy. With a new emerging generation accepting homosexuals (hopefully), homosexuality will become normalized and the community can begin to establish itself with norms and some boundaries. But this requires acceptance. You might think that gay people all live in segregation in San Fransisco or on Church St. in Toronto, but they fact is our “community” is dispersed everywhere, there isn’t an oppertunity to establish norms and standards the same way a heterosexual dominated society has.

You attack homosexuals for not being monogomous enough, yet then, you seek to deny them the very institution that exists to secure monogamy?
 
You are making a lot of sense. So be careful. Good luck with you and your boyfriend. I promise that being open about who you are does come easier with time.
 
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estesbob:
The truth is that the number of Homosexuals who live in a long term monagamous relationship is miniscule. In Countries and States that have legalized same sex marriages less than 1% of the homosexual population has taken advantage of it.

The only thing a Catholic needs to know about homosexual behavior is it is a griveous sin and they sin if they paticiapte in it or condone/promote it. The idea that a sin becomes less a sin the more one gets to know about it is ludicrous.
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Eileen T??? Where are you? This sounds off topic…
 
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