Brokeback Mountain - Understanding Propaganda

[Marquette]

Libero:

I AM A CATHOLIC. And I am also very aware that I am posting in a Catholic forum, yet, that said, if you wish to claim that it is a truth, then I shall agree, but add that it is a truth that is no longer recognised due to atheism and agnosticism.

You say that you are Catholic. Catholics worship Yahweh GOD. If you worship Yahweh GOD, then you must abide by HIS words. What athiests and agnostics believe does not concern the true Christian whose only desire is to serve Yahweh GOD and HIS SON, Jesus Christ.

 

[estesbob]

Libero:

I am not perfect, and therefore feel a great amount of unease at pointing out others sin and flaws. I can direct them to the bible, but that is all, I would much rather show the love of Christ to all, than to judge them.

Whatever their eternal destiny is, it is between them and God, I am sure that God is a more qualified judge than I.

If your friend was staning in front of a moving car I am sure you would push him out of the way. However when your friend is puting his immortal soul at risk you remain silent???

 

[Aquarius]

Eileen T:

And lies.

Commenting upon the media ad campaign Kirk and Madsen stated…" It makes no difference that the ads are lies; not to us, because we’re using them to ethically good effect." (p.154)

In other words, they advocated lying if that is what it took to bring about the desired change in people’s attitudes.

Kirk and Madsen stress that in any ad campaign details of homosexual practices must be kept low profile.

I’d say those guys are a lot smarter than their opposition.

Lies are part of propaganda. So is truth. Both can be used to achieve a desired result.

But much of the debate centers around opinion which cannot be verified as fact or fiction. This doesn’t fall in the category of either truth or lie. Look how many people say homosexuality is genetic. That hasn’t been demonstrated. Look how many say it is not genetic. That, too, has not been demonstrated.

Look how many people say gay marriage will destroy marriage. Then ask them to provide three specific and particular ways civil gay marriage will harm civil heterosexual marriage.

One of the most effective tactics of the gays has been to take the statements of the other side at face value and ask for backup. When exageration and hyperbole are exposed, it tends to erode credibility.

 

[Aquarius]

estesbob:

Yes and the truth is homosexual behavior is a mortal sin. Anyone or any movie that promotes or condones it as an acceptable behavior is complicit in that sin. Sometimes the Truth hurts.

Who judges sin?

 

[Aquarius]

Eileen T:

Another effective propaganda movie was ‘Philadelphia’ where the AIDS afflicted gay man played by Tom Hanks was rejected by the ‘bigots’ in the law firm.

Joseph Goebbels was an extremely intelligent man. That’s how he managed to win over the German people to accept the extermination of the Jews. He knew just what buttons to push Kirk and Madsen come a close second.

Philadelphia did a good job in fighting discrimination against people with AIDs. Do you object to that?

 

[Aquarius]

Eileen T:

Another effective propaganda movie was ‘Philadelphia’ where the AIDS afflicted gay man played by Tom Hanks was rejected by the ‘bigots’ in the law firm.

Joseph Goebbels was an extremely intelligent man. That’s how he managed to win over the German people to accept the extermination of the Jews. He knew just what buttons to push Kirk and Madsen come a close second.

Goebbels failed. Kirk and Madsen are succeeding. No need for them to take second place.

 

[yochumjy]

Aquarius:

Who judges sin?

Two parts to this.

1. Who declares what is sinful
   The church has been given this since day 1,
   What is held bound on earth will be held bound in heaven
2. Who judges the result of that sinful action
   Only God gets the final word

 

[Aquarius]

estesbob:

You are posting in a CATHOLIC forum. Are you suprised that people here actually ACCEPT Catholic teaching?? And the Truth is the Truth whether you or the agnostic or atheist accept it or not. You ignore it at your won risk.

Truth is truth. Many things are true, but we are ignorant of an infinity of truth. How do we know we have properly discerned what we claim to be true? That’s why quaestions and examination are so interesting.

 

[Aquarius]

fix:

I do not want to veer too far off topic, but that encyclical also said this:

We do not deny that at times together with the loan contract certain other titles - which are not at all intrinsic to the contract - may run parallel with it. From these other titles, entirely just and legitimate reasons arise to demand something over and above the amount due on the contract. Nor is it denied that it is very often possible for someone, by means of contracts differing entirely from loans, to spend and invest money legitimately either to provide oneself with an annual income or to engage in legitimate trade and business. From these types of contracts honest gain may be made.21

Please see his book as it explains things very well.

The pope exolained it very well. It was immoral to lend 100 pieces of gold and demand 105 in return. Now it is OK.

 

[Aquarius]

fix:

The Church is always right when She speaks on faith and morals as She speaks as Christ.

Homosexual inclination is objectively disordered because it is not ordered toward the good as designed by God.

Please show me where the Church taught we should kill people as a matter of faith and morals.

Heretics.

 

[Aquarius]

estesbob:

Actually they didnt. And if you are referning to the Gallelio trial I suggest you do a little more research on what it was really about. The issue at hand was not the so much the Copernican theory(after all Copernicus was a Catholic Priest who’s research was supportd by the Church) as it was about the percieved mocking of the Pope as a simpleton is Gallelios book on Heiocentricism

That’s not what the opinion of the Church court said.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

Note the reference to faith.

law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/condemnation.html

Three is a long and interesting thrad on this in the apologetics forum.

 

[Aquarius]

yochumjy:

Two parts to this.

1. Who declares what is sinful
   The church has been given this since day 1,
   What is held bound on earth will be held bound in heaven
2. Who judges the result of that sinful action
   Only God gets the final word

Sounds like #2 is all we need to know.

 

[OhioBob]

Libero:

I AM A CATHOLIC. And I am also very aware that I am posting in a Catholic forum, yet, that said, if you wish to claim that it is a truth, then I shall agree, but add that it is a truth that is no longer recognised due to atheism and agnosticism.

You lost me here. How can a truth be “no longer recognized”? The existence of atheists and agnostics does not render truths suddently untrue. Dissent argues against truth, but it does not negate it.

 

[Aquarius]

OhioBob:

You lost me here. How can a truth be “no longer recognized”? The existence of atheists and agnostics does not render truths suddently untrue. Dissent argues against truth, but it does not negate it.

Propositions held up as truth can be questioned and found wanting.

 

[OhioBob]

While not specifically related to propoganda in the media, THIS ARTICLE in the current New Oxford Review presents the views of the author (a homosexual man) regarding the ways in which the homosexual rights movement is misrepresented in popular culture.

Unfortunately, you cannot read the entire article online without subscribing. Too bad, since it is an interesting piece.

 

[estesbob]

Aquarius:

Propositions held up as truth can be questioned and found wanting.

Catholic Doctine is Truth-those who proclaim to be Catholic can neither question it or find it wanting. Those who are not Catholic must satisfy themselves with a watered down , incorrect or distorted view of the TRUTH. Libero affirms he is catholic-as such he needs to proclaim this TRUTH to his erring friends.

 

[estesbob]

Aquarius:

That’s not what the opinion of the Church court said.

The proposition that the Earth is not the center of the world and immovable but that it moves, and also with a diurnal motion, is equally absurd and false philosophically and theologically considered at least erroneous in faith.

Note the reference to faith.

law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/galileo/condemnation.html

Three is a long and interesting thrad on this in the apologetics forum.

Have you studied the trial-you’ll find out there was a lot more involved than your cut n post googling would indicate.

 

[Aquarius]

estesbob:

Have you studied the trial-you’ll find out there was a lot more involved than your cut n post googling would indicate.

Read the whole opinion and you will not see your proposition validated.

I’d say an opinion issued by a court commissioned by the pope is a bit more than googling, especially when that court made pronouncements on faith.

 

[wader0069]

estesbob:

Catholic Doctine is Truth-those who proclaim to be Catholic can neither question it or find it wanting. Those who are not Catholic must satisfy themselves with a watered down , incorrect or distorted view of the TRUTH. Libero affirms he is catholic-as such he needs to proclaim this TRUTH to his erring friends.

This is ridiculous in all that can be ridiculous. A watered down version of the truth? If that were the case I would believe in any bible the Roman Catholic Church had their hands in. The bible written before that time ( in Hebrew mind you), said nothing about man shall not lay with man. Even after that bible in the Tahora(I believe) it cliamed only sin is wasted seamen, which many people seem to do this day with birth control, and condoms.

Who is to say what the truth is, not even this “god” person, spirit or whatever has come down to lay down the truth. Isn’t that what poeple do when they want the truth to behold? Yet we have no proof of his/her/it’s existence, and we are suppose to hold a faith up beyond our own inner desires, and beleifs. I think not, if it feels right to me, it is right.

Brokeback Mountain wasa great movie, not only for it’s cinematic appeal, but what it lacked. The body language between the two characters is amazing, and makes you really feel the love. The true love only two soulmates could possible have. Thats right two men can be soulmates, and do deserve the right and will to act upon those feelings. Anyone who thinks other wise is a bigot, and “gods” worst enemy.

 

[Gnosis]

Thats a rather miselading article. We can’t even read the whole thing without paying money.

So the basis of his argument is that the entire gay rights movement is, infact, nothing but a facade, and that all gay people really care about is sex and pornography? And he bases this on his observations at a single gay bookstore? Did he even goto the store to a see a record of purchasing to back up his claim that “he was the only one who ever bought actual books”?

And before we acuse the homosexual community of being obsessed with sex, I think we should look at heterosexuals as well. Perhaps it should be investigated as to how many heterousexual males look at pornography, as far as I know, it is a booming business in the straight world as well.

Speaking of propaganda, it is obvious that this article is indeed a piece of propaganda. The poster said it was written by a gay man. I can’t read the entire article, but it seems to me that this man no longer puts himself under that label. Regardless, it is obvious that this article is designed to depict gays as nothing more than sex thirsty deviants. This is the so called “truth”.

I belong to a gay campus club, where everyweek we get together to discuss personal issue, combat discrimination, ect. These people are committed to our rights, committed to fighting discrimination, and when we get together we don’t just sit there and talk about sex. The president of the club is particularly passionate and I admire her greatly for her hard work. I would be wary of saying that all gay people fall under a sing lifestlye description. We are more diverse than you seem to think.

newoxfordreview.org/article.jsp?did=0206-lee